Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Sovereignty and Population

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#1 - 2013-04-27 09:45:48 UTC
~ What is a sovereign without people? ~

Current sov mechanics are rather detached from the systems that are laid claim upon. It almost completely consists of grinding structures and arbitrary indexes to claim, improve and conquer systems.

This thread examines a method to make sovereignty more involved with the planets and their populace, giving methods to project their workforce into space and improve systems individually with structure complexes that give different sized targets for a variety of fleet sizes offering different tactics and opportunities to harass and conquer systems.

This is a first draft, just one step after a simple brainstorming and the concepts are little refined. Any numbers are more or less arbitrary and only used to better outline the concepts. Filling in the variables only makes sense when the equations are defined and finalized, not at this stage.

If you find holes, logic mistakes and/or contradictions, please point them out and resolve them.
If you want to merely display your support or rejection of this idea, please create a thread in the Assembly Hall.
If you want to discuss whether or not a change of sov mechanics are necessary, please create a thread in General Discussion

Let's flesh this out and create something awesome!
#2 - 2013-04-27 09:46:12 UTC
Population and Workforce

To control a system, you must control the people. People loyal to you will support with Workforce. This Workforce can be directed to different areas with Deadspace colonies and Planetary Administration Stations.

Maximum population is defined by the planet type. Planetary habitability by type from lowest to highest: Gas (5), Plasma (5), Lava (5), Storm (25), Ice (25), Barren (25), Oceanic (50), Temperate (100). Population mechanics could be more defined by a PI extension/overhaul.

Every Outpost adds population to the system, the more and higher the upgrades, the more Workforce will be available. As long as the system is claimed by the same alliance as the Outpost, the Outpost is invulnerable.

Every system has a number of Deadspace areas that can be build up with colonies, adding population or focussing the work force. Workforce in those Deadspace Colonies (DeCo) is assigned by source. This means if control of population is lost, the workforce in the assigned location disappears and the Colony, Section or Module goes offline. Offline Colonies are vulnerable to conquest.

Unassigned Workforce will produce a small amount of ISK from taxes and small scale trade.
#3 - 2013-04-27 09:46:35 UTC
Sovereignty

Planets are controlled through the Ownership of the Player Owned Customs Office (POCO). A POCO can be upgraded to a Planetary Administrations Station (PAS) that allows installation of Sections and Modules to it for improving the planet via Workforce support. This upgrade is only available when sovereignty through installation of a System Administration Complex (SAC) is claimed. Other than DUST Integration, a PAS follows the same rules for conquest and destruction as Deadspace Colonies.

DUST 514 Integration
Instead of a destroying the PAS in orbit, the planetary Districts can be taken over with DUST troops. Once all Districts of a planet are controlled a POCO or PAS becomes vulnerable to conquest.


If you have a majority influence of the system population, you can build a System Administration Complex in a Deadspace location to claim Sovereignty of the system. Sovereignty is required to use Workforce in any installations.

As long as the Sovereignty is stable, the SAC is invulnerable on top of normal vulnerability mechanics of Deadspace Colonies.

Should you lose the majority of population support for any reason, the SAC becomes vulnerable like any other DeCo.

Some Structures are tacked with 'corruption'. Any Workforce assigned to those Structures will reduce the effectively controlled population, making the system's Sovereignty less stable. For example, you control 150 Population and assigned 100 of them to work with corruption, the effective controlled Population will be 50 and a enemy entity taking over 55 Population will threaten your Sovereignty.

Should you lose the Workforce that keeps the SAC running, it will be scheduled to go offline and become vulnerable until sufficient Workforce is assigned to it. As a Outpost is invulnerable until Sovereignty drops, it is advisable to use Workforce gained from Outposts to staff a SAC.

Should the Sovereignty Bill for the system not get paid, the SAC will be scheduled to go offline until the payment goes through.

After 24 hours of the SAC being offline, Sovereignty in the system will drop with all consequences.
Should Sovereignty drop, all Workforce assignment is lost and all DeCos and PASes will be scheduled to go offline. PASes will still act as POCOs for PI functions.

When a structure is scheduled to go offline there is a grace period of 8 hours before going offline, allowing to rectify the situation. ISK needs to be paid, before the counter stops, depending on how long it went on. Onlining again will cost the full 8 hours grace period, even when all other conditions are met. The System Governor can offline structures without the timer and it will not incur a fee to online them again.
#4 - 2013-04-27 09:46:53 UTC
Warfare


-Vulnerability

A Module is always Vulnerable until it is Incapacitated
A Section is Vulnerable when all connected Modules are Incapacitated until it itself is Incapacitated
A Colony is Vulnerable when all connected Sections are Incapacitated until it enters Reinforced
The SAC is Vulnerable when the controlling entity no longer has a system Population majority
A Outpost is Vulnerable when the controlling entity has no Sovereignty in the system


-Incapacitation

When a Module or Section takes Hull damage, Hull is reset to 100% and the Structure is considered Incapacitated until all Armor is repaired and Shields are back above 25%.
Incapacitated structures with some kind of cargo capacity will have all cargo accessible by any player. This will allow shipyard theft and bandit raids.


-Destruction

A Module can be Destroyed when the associated Section is Incapacitated.
A Section can be Destroyed when the associated Colony is Reinforced.
A Colony can be Destroyed when the Reinforced Timer has run out.


-Conquest

A Colony can be Conquered when it is offline.
A SAC can be Conquered when the attacking entity has a system Population majority.
A POCO or PAS can be Conquered when the Planet is controlled by the attacking entity (DUST).
A Outpost can be Conquered when the attacking entity has system Sovereignty.

To Conquer a Structure, a Conquistador Bunker must be anchored next to it and survive through the conquest timer. At the end of the timer the ownership switches to the attacker. If the condition for Conquest is no longer valid when the timer finishes, the conquest fails.


-Demolition

The System Governor can Demolish a Module or Section if it is Incapacitated instead of repairing it, yielding a proportionate amount of construction components to the hull damage received. Demolition is not possible when the Structure has cargo capacity and still contains items. There is a demolition timer that can be aborted at any time and a container with the components will be dropped once it runs out. Demolishing is useful for replacing Structures faster than repairing takes or to quickly remove threatened assets.

If a system is without sovereignty and the complexes are offline, anyone can incapacitate and demolish the structures to salvage the abandoned facilities, albeit at a lower yield.


-Transfer and Defection

Alliance Leadership appoints System Governors on a system per system basis. These Governors are Corporations through their CEOs and Directors and may be a role available to the members. The corporation has to be part of the alliance (possible entry point for Pet Contracts, giving out governorship for money).

If the Governor changes Alliances, the System Sovereignty switches in 24 hours.
If the Governor drops out of any alliance, the SAC is scheduled to go offline in 24 hours unless a new Governor is assigned.
If the Alliance dissolves, the Governor has 24 hours to join up into a new one and transfer Sovereignty.
If the Governor dissolves, the Alliance has 24 hours to assign a new one.
#5 - 2013-04-27 09:47:14 UTC
Deadspace Colonies


A Deadspace colony consist of three types of installations:
- The Colony, which defines the purpose of the installation.
- The Section, which define the areas within the purpose that can be upgraded
- The Modules, which define the type and amount of upgrade.

A Deadspace location has room for one Colony, which can be upgraded thrice to host up to four Sections, which can be upgraded thrice to host four modules, which can be upgraded twice for increased performance.

To online a Colony 8 Workforce need to be directed towards it. The Workforce need increases by 4 for each upgrade to a total of 20 by the third.

To online a Section you need 2 Workforce and 2 more per upgrade to a total of 8.

To online a module you need 1 Workforce and 1 more per upgrade to a total of 3.

This means, a fully upgraded and operational colony will need 100 Workforce.
[Colony (20) + 4 x [Section (8) + 4 x Module (3)]


Following is a collection of ideas what kinds of Colonies could be available and the improvements they can give. They are in no way exhaustive, set in stone, they merely give a overview of the possible complexity and display the necessity to choose what to upgrade with the limited population available in a system.
#6 - 2013-04-27 09:47:30 UTC
System Administration Complex
- Station Defence Bunker
-- Small sentry slot
-- Medium sentry slot
-- Large sentry slot
-- Ewar sentry slot
- Outpost Administration Center
-- Manufacturring slot
-- Copy slot
-- Invention slot
- Starbase Administration Center
-- Fuel usage
-- Shield recharge
-- Sentry damage
-- Silo capacity
- System Administration Center
-- Workforce increase by percentage
-- Tax income
-- Structure shield hitpoints
-- Complex sentry damage


Planetary Administration Station
- Station Defence Bunker
-- Small sentry slot
-- Medium sentry slot
-- Large sentry slot
-- Ewar sentry slot
- Planetary Administration Center
-- PCC PG
-- PCC CPU
-- PI production duration
- Planetary Transportation Control
-- PI expedited transfer cooldown
-- PI storage capacity
-- PI link PG/CPU need
- Planetary Prospection Array
-- PI extraction rate
-- PI scan resolution
- Orbital Colony
-- Population
- Orbital Market
-- Buy order slot
-- Sell order slot


Military Installation
- Station Defence Bunker
-- Small sentry slot
-- Medium sentry slot
-- Large sentry slot
-- Ewar sentry slot
- Surveillance Post
-- Magnetometric site count
-- Magnetometric site quality
-- RADAR site count
-- RADAR site quality
- Armored Warfare Command Bunker
-- Damage control link
-- Passive defence link
-- Rapid repair link
- Information Warfare Command Bunker
-- Electronic superiority link
-- Recon operation link
-- Sensor integrity link
- Siege Warfare Command Bunker
-- Active shielding link
-- Shield efficiency link
-- Shield harmonizing link
- Skirmish Warfare Command Bunker
-- Evasive manoeuvring link
-- Interdiction manoeuvres link
-- Rapid deployment link


Logistics Depot
- Station Defence Bunker
-- Small sentry slot
-- Medium sentry slot
-- Large sentry slot
-- Ewar sentry slot
- Jump Portal
-- Fuel capacity
-- Fuel usage
-- Jump range
- Cyno Jammer
-- Small sentry slot
-- Medium sentry slot
-- Large sentry slot
-- Ewar sentry slot
- Cyno Generator
-- Small sentry slot
-- Medium sentry slot
-- Large sentry slot
-- Ewar sentry slot
- Super Capital Docking Facility
-- Small sentry slot
-- Medium sentry slot
-- Large sentry slot
-- Ewar sentry slot
- Super Capital Logistics Support
- Alliance logistics


Mining Colony
- Refinery
-- Refinery slot
-- Refinery efficiency general
-- Refinery efficiency maximum, ore specific above 100%
- Foreman Post
-- Foreman link - harvester capacitor
-- Foreman link - laser optimization
-- Foreman link - mining laser field
-- Ore hold capacity
-- Mining drone velocity
-- Ore compression speed
-- Industrial configuration fuel use
- Prospecting Station
-- Gravimetric site count
-- Gravimetric site quality
-- Gravimetric site specific ore
-- LADAR site count
-- LADAR site quality


Science Station
- Metallurgy Laboratory
-- ME slot
-- ME research speed
- Research Laboratory
-- PE slot
-- PE research speed
- Science Laboratory
-- Copy slot
-- Copy speed
- Experimental Laboratory
-- Reverse Engineering slot
-- Reverse Engineering speed
-- Wormhole count
- Invention Laboratory
-- Invention chance
-- Invention speed
- Fundamental Research Laboratory
-- Datacore production (specific)


Civilian Colony
-Residential District
-- Population
- Market Hub
-- Tax income
- Pirate Outpost (corruption)
-- LP store
-- Pirate agent
- Pleasure Hub (corruption)
-- Pirate anomaly count
-- Pirate anomaly quality
- Black Market Hub (corruption)
-- Pirate site count
-- Pirate site quality


Industrial Complex
- Assembly line
-- Manufacturing slot
- Prefab Facility
-- Manufacturing time
-- Manufacturing waste
- Recycling plant
-- Reprocessing facility
-- Reprocessing efficiency
-- Manufacturing waste
- Super Capital Shipyard
-- Manufacturing slot
-- Manufacturing time
-- Small sentry slot
-- Medium sentry slot
-- Large sentry slot
-- Ewar sentry slot


Trading Post
- Alliance Market
-- Corporation store front
- Public Market
-- Corporation store front
- Storage Facility
-- Storage capacity
- Pleasure Hub (corruption)
-- Pirate anomaly count
-- Pirate anomaly quality
- Black Market Hub (corruption)
-- Pirate site count
-- Pirate site quality
#7 - 2013-04-29 11:31:25 UTC
Alright, post FanFest bump and some more stuff from my side.


Target Sizes

The modular system is intended to offer different sized targets for different sized fleets. So a roaming gang can harass the Colonies but most likely will not be able to outright destroy them. So a Module has around 1-2 million HPs, a Section 10-20 million and the Colony 100-200 million.

Keep in mind, you don't have to grind through all Colonies to take over a system.

The vulnerability mechanics are there to prevent a roaming gang to outright destroying all Modules in every system they pass. They can Incapacitate them, but destruction is put up another tier as they would first need to Incapacitate the Section before the Modules can be destroyed.

Keep in mind, Incapacitated structures with cargo can be accessed by anyone, so it is possible to Incapacitate the Fundamental Research Laboratory of a Science outpost and steal any Datacores stored in there from production.


Tactics

Let me outline some tactics for warfare I had in mind while designing the mechanics.

Overwhelming Force: You jump in with everything you have, reinforce up all POCOs and PACs to make the SAC vulnerable, then you reinforce that one and blow it up once the timer is down. Then you replace everything with your own structures and take over sovereignty.

Step by step: You blow up one POCO or PAC after the other, replace them with your own to take over Population majority, reinforce the SAC once it's vulnerable and Conquer it with a Conquistador Bunker, taking over sovereignty.

Bunny Invasion: You take over every planet with DUST, conquer every POCO and PAC with bunkers, then conquer the SAC, taking over sovereignty.

Thanks for all the Fish: You infiltrate the enemy alliance, become system Governor of any desired system, then promptly defect to your original alliance with all the sovereignty.

I'm sure you can come up with more tactics, but that would be the gist of it.
#8 - 2013-05-04 08:43:42 UTC
This... is very interesting. +1
#9 - 2013-05-12 12:01:12 UTC
A little bump from page 10

On Population

With the numbers given, most systems will have around 200-300 population to use when fully controlled. Some systems may be below 100 and others can go up to 600. This will give a system varying value for claiming and will influence whether it will be considered worth maintaining and how it will be used and upgraded. A uneven distribution among space of high population systems may create a source of conflict and a shift in alliance occupation.

As 100 population are needed to fully upgrade a complex, systems will rarely support multiple purposes and the alliance will have to decide how to use a system (or just rent it out and let the governors figure it out. While upgrading a POCO into a PAS may increase defensibility of a planet and thus the system, it is also a investment of resources and it will use up population that could be used for other system upgrades. A outpost supersedes control of a POCO/PAS, so those are best placed on strategically important planets, usually of the temperate type, to secure the population of the SAC with the circular vulnerability prerequisites. At least until a majority of the population is controlled by the opponents.


On Deadspace

The number of available deadspace areas should be limited. Somewhere between 3 and 6 areas to put DeCos in should suffice and put enough restriction in to make choices matter. They could initially either be public beacons or require scanning down or be simply available as bookmarks through the System Governor interface and only become public beacons when a complex is established. The amount could either be random or fixed and/or increase with the upgrading of the SAC, for example starting with 3 and adding one more per SAC upgrade to a maximum of 6.

Why Deadspace is used for those complexes has a simple strategic reason: The warp in location for the complex can be determined, is fixed and can thus be easier protected. A warp disruption bubble at the warp-in can put a combatant in a predicament and dug in pilots can position them at the perfect optimal range for dealing with enemies. Area of effect weapons can be used effectively when a fleet is piling up at the warp in and the bomber pilots will know exactly where the pile with heap up. This of course works both ways, depending on who gets there first.



As you can see, the use of limited resources, the vulnerability of the resource, the strategic considerations required when using these resources and the influence on tactical decisions when fighting in or over the complexes makes for a much more interesting and dynamic gameplay than the current rather grindy and static sovereignty mechanics.
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-05-17 19:54:44 UTC
Holy **** this is long. Gonna read this on the way to my movie later :)
#11 - 2013-05-17 20:23:36 UTC
+1

I like it!
#12 - 2013-06-21 11:04:41 UTC
Well, it's been a month and all the stickies are gone from the front page, so here's a bump for exposure. I don't have anything in my head at the moment to add, so the first response gets to decide what aspect of the concept I'll elaborate on next time I post a bump.
#13 - 2013-06-25 15:46:13 UTC
These are great ideas to explore, I hope something along these lines is being looked at by CCP.
"Leave the gun. Take the cannoli." 
#14 - 2013-06-25 18:20:10 UTC
Outstanding ideas ...

....but it won't work.


The critical issue with nullsec at the moment is that it is too hard to get to for non-mega alliance players, and too hard to keep systems for independent alliances. There are three or four alliances who control all of that null space, and you must be one of their pets to live there. The Odyssey changes have reinforced that, not diminished it, sadly. Bad design consequences have made null invalid for many small alliances.

So the above changes, while exciting and well thought through, would amount to nothing more than extending the sov grind for the major alliances. Until the fundamental problems in nullsec are addressed, these changes would be qonderful but meaningless. Sad
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-06-25 18:27:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Decoe DeTouront
Very nice! I like it. This could be the best integration of DUST, PI and EVE ever. Now I hope, that ccp will think about and comment it.
#16 - 2013-06-25 18:41:04 UTC
I didn't read the whole thing, but what I did read seemed good. I especially like that you planned for DUST integration, although Districts only exist on Temperate planets. It seems to me that this means POCOs around temperate planets would be less vulnerable (or perhaps more vulnerable if your alliance's mercs are terrible) than POCOs around other planets that don't have districts.
#17 - 2013-08-21 11:42:16 UTC
Last day of my subscription (for now), so let's bump these one last time.
#18 - 2013-08-21 11:57:33 UTC
It would certainly make sense that having sov over a system would require and utilise actual planets in that system .

PI could be expanded to include proper colonies that can be used to improve bonuses from that system and keeping them happy and secure should be necessary to hold sov over them and the system

- say there are 5 planets in that system then you should have to develop and defend them and keep any colonised planets happy.

-Pirates could play an active part in eroding sov if they are unchallenged much like an incursion ... so it would have to be actively defended to keep the sov of that system... perhaps pirates could take over systems and behave like real alliances and expand build ships/ POS etc.. and start attacking real alliances/corps .. possibilities..

T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely.

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

#19 - 2013-08-21 12:04:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
you could have structures that are owned by the planet so whoever gains sov gets access to those structures ..

- orbital satellite system
- Trade Station
- orbital defense system
- Asteroid belt stations ( at belts) stores ore and can refine
- Research Facility
- Factories ( produce products/ammo etc. )

And these could be destructable or conquerable via DUST or hacking etc... and the planets would become unhappy and you're sov would become untenable for long without getting them back and the sov could become lost to pirates or whoever has the most buildings in their possession.

T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely.

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

C C P Alliance
#20 - 2013-11-26 11:48:53 UTC
Reopening this thread

CCP Gargant | EVE Universe esports Coordinator

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