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New Mining Mechanics: Multi Ore, Multi Methods

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#1 - 2013-05-01 13:00:44 UTC
Goal of this is to move all ores into single asteroids and offer three distinct methods to extract them: Strip Mining, Deposit Mining and Vein Mining. Putting all ores into single rocks is not just a realism thing, it is also offering the game play of prospecting, the need to look for the ore you want to mine before you can mine it. The three mining methods are based around this prospecting.


The Asteroids

While we're at it, we can change how the asteroid belts look like. Crescent shaped collections of pebbles are boring. So let's make them bigger. The main asteroids of a mining site can be around 3 to 30 km in approximate diameter, with flocks of smaller 3-300 meter diameter pebbles floating about. The big asteroids can be 100-250 km apart forming a large mining site, stretching over several grids.

Strip Mining treats every rock the same. While inefficient in general, it is reliable and uncaring of its targets like a vacuum cleaner.

The big Asteroids are the main targets for Deposit Mining, though smaller rocks may be rich enough in the specific ore aimed for to make targeting them feasible.

Pure veins to mine can be found in any rock, big or small. Big ones merely may offer more rich veins than smaller ones. It's like washing out a lot of sand for the gold nuggets.


The Prospecting

The survey scanner will come in three flavours (either different modules or scripts): Ore density scan, ore deposit scan and vein scan. Accuracy of the scans can depend on skills, like astrogeology and maybe the refinery speciality skills. The Orca and Rorqual could get special scanners that allows them to either boost scan accuracy or to relay the scan to fleet members.

Ore Density only displays the relative amount of ore left from 0-100%. It does not show which ores there are inside or in what relative distribution. General density influences the mining yield. This scan is only useful for Strip Mining. It has the longest range and lowest skill requirements.

Ore Deposits show as a heat map on the asteroid. You can switch through the ores similar to PI scans and you need to aim your mining lasers at the targeted deposit to mine it. Lower density on the heat map will result in lower yields. Deposits deplete during mining. Deposit mining allows you to target specific ore types. This scan has normal range but is direction restricted, so you can not scan and aim your mining laser at a position on the opposite side of the asteroid.

Ore Veins can be found usually around the most dense deposits, though some isolated geodes may be randomly spread throughout a large asteroid. A vein scan is line of sight restricted and ore specific like the deposit scan and must be moved manually over the surface to lock in to a vein of worthwhile density. Veins are low volumes of high yield ores.
#2 - 2013-05-01 13:01:11 UTC
The Ore

As said, every Asteroid has a composition of the ores appropriate for its location. Starting general density, deposit type, density and distribution and number of veins depend on the security level of the system or type of gravimetric site. Asteroids will no longer contain ores with increased yield. Those are moved to vein mining with a further improved reprocessing yield.

Mining out a vein will reduce the density of the deposit and the total ore density of the asteroid by the volume mined. Mining a deposit will destroy veins when the deposit density drops below a certain percentage and will reduce total ore density by the mined volume. Strip mining reduces the ore density by the mined volume and drops the deposit densities according to the general ore density; veins may be depleted if the deposit density drops below a certain point. Geodes can still be found, even if the asteroid is considered depleted for other methods.

Visually the surface of the asteroids show markings of the ores, more clear depending on the heat map of the deposits, thus allowing a experienced prospector to evaluate the worth of a rock by mere sight. When the ore is mined out, the asteroid shows scars and pits until it turns into a hollowed out husk. Small asteroids may disappear immediately, while the big ones stay around until the site resets.


The Mining

Strip Mining is simple. You point your mining lasers at a rock and let them roam, sucking everything up that may be valuable and jettison the rest. Disadvantage is that you don't get to choose. Mining will yield all ores in the rock relative to the distribution in the asteroid. T1 Mining Lasers and Strip Miners are used for this method (non-modulated T2 versions may be created). Yield drops when the ore density falls, around a 2:1 ratio. So if the asteroid is at 50% ore density, the yield will be 75% and it goes towards 50% when density approaches zero.

Deposit Mining allows you target specific ores in a asteroid and mine only them. You have to aim your mining laser on the asteroid scan similar to a PI extractor head and both your aim and the deposit density determines your mining yield, similar to strip mining. Modulated Strip Miners are used for deposit mining to avoid contamination with foreign materials (a modulated turret mounted mining laser would need to be created). Using a wrong or no crystal will result in reduced yields as the mined material must be cleaned before storage.

Vein Mining is aiming at small deposits of concentrated, pure ore instead of bulk volumes. Mining yield is not affected by general densities; the deposits are mined in absolute amounts. It is tedious as the deep core miners used in the process have a short range as does the scanning method. But while no greater in volume per unit as standard ore, the ore found in veins yields 5 to 10 times the minerals. This method is more interactive, requiring moving around big rocks, through sites and systems to fill a cargo hold but will, if luck is with you, create a higher income than the other methods. It lends especially to a environment where standing still for too long equals a death wish. Deep Core Miners, Deep Core Strip Miners and the modulated versions are used for this Method. Modulated miners merely increase the yield for a specific ore, thus reducing the time one has to stay in a location. Mercoxite can only be found in veins and produces damage clouds around them normally.
Fly Fearless
#3 - 2013-05-01 14:00:00 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Goal of this is to move all ores into single asteroids and offer three distinct methods to extract them: Strip Mining, Deposit Mining and Vein Mining. Putting all ores into single rocks is not just a realism thing, it is also offering the game play of prospecting, the need to look for the ore you want to mine before you can mine it. The three mining methods are based around this prospecting.


The Asteroids

While we're at it, we can change how the asteroid belts look like. Crescent shaped collections of pebbles are boring. So let's make them bigger. The main asteroids of a mining site can be around 3 to 30 km in approximate diameter, with flocks of smaller 3-300 meter diameter pebbles floating about. The big asteroids can be 100-250 km apart forming a large mining site, stretching over several grids.

Strip Mining treats every rock the same. While inefficient in general, it is reliable and uncaring of its targets like a vacuum cleaner.

The big Asteroids are the main targets for Deposit Mining, though smaller rocks may be rich enough in the specific ore aimed for to make targeting them feasible.

Pure veins to mine can be found in any rock, big or small. Big ones merely may offer more rich veins than smaller ones. It's like washing out a lot of sand for the gold nuggets.


The Prospecting

The survey scanner will come in three flavours (either different modules or scripts): Ore density scan, ore deposit scan and vein scan. Accuracy of the scans can depend on skills, like astrogeology and maybe the refinery speciality skills. The Orca and Rorqual could get special scanners that allows them to either boost scan accuracy or to relay the scan to fleet members.

Ore Density only displays the relative amount of ore left from 0-100%. It does not show which ores there are inside or in what relative distribution. General density influences the mining yield. This scan is only useful for Strip Mining. It has the longest range and lowest skill requirements.

Ore Deposits show as a heat map on the asteroid. You can switch through the ores similar to PI scans and you need to aim your mining lasers at the targeted deposit to mine it. Lower density on the heat map will result in lower yields. Deposits deplete during mining. Deposit mining allows you to target specific ore types. This scan has normal range but is direction restricted, so you can not scan and aim your mining laser at a position on the opposite side of the asteroid.

Ore Veins can be found usually around the most dense deposits, though some isolated geodes may be randomly spread throughout a large asteroid. A vein scan is line of sight restricted and ore specific like the deposit scan and must be moved manually over the surface to lock in to a vein of worthwhile density. Veins are low volumes of high yield ores.


Leave HighSec and the belts get bigger. Null/Wspace have some grav sites. In the case of null, they grav sites are spoon fed to you in an unlimited fashion.

Everything else you mentioned is a ridiculous complication of a system that is tolerated as a necessary evil.

EVE is an illness, for which there is no cure.

#4 - 2013-05-03 14:28:38 UTC
Poster above obviously didn't read anything it quoted. I didn't make a mention about the amount of ore to be found or the spawning mechanics behind it, merely the shape of the belts/mining sites.

And it's only getting more complicated if you want it that way. You can still just target asteroids and mine away, same as today. You just won't get any choice ore to min/max your profits. With null-sec sites that have the kind of ore defined by the type of the site and need to be mined out completely, it won't be making much of a difference.

The other mining techniques are for people that don't see it as a 'necessary evil' better left to bots and who want more interaction with their chosen gameplay. Especially the Vein Mining will allow people to make forays into the more hostile space of low and non-blue null-sec and have a chance to make some profits without being a sitting duck easily chased away or killed.
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-05-04 04:53:27 UTC
i like some of that.. but i like to add mining pos on large roids. you see in missions mining posts large mining pos in / on big roids. like to see that in game both in high and low sec space. of course low sec / null sec would produce more mineral yields than high sec would, rare ores in low / null sec .. same idea as pos but is only in mining and refining and condensing of minerals for transport. you can only operate one mining pos per skill level up to 6 . scan and search large roids might find one with veldspar and trace common ores. or luck out and find a prox roid with trace kernite / jasper/ omber and such or if low or null sec roids with very rare ores ... a combination of pos and PI ...
but think it should be on your skills in mining pos PI and a few others to operate a mining pos not the security rating if you can put one up or not.
As well still have mining by ship in roid fields but like it was said in first post.
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2013-05-04 05:04:30 UTC
I also like ice mining in fields and ice planets PI mined for the ice resources. take the pure ice and have to combine / separate it to get the different elements needed . that are obtained like in PI now. separate water and oxygen from the ice. add a element to get isotopes ect.. as well like to see moon mining upgraded, from what it is now into more of a PI way of it. or base/ pos idea instead of a floating pos. high sec low sec null sec.. do it the way pi is now high sec offers lower amounts and concored taxed. so low / null sec will be always more profitable , in amounts and rare items.
Lin Kuei Kokuryukai.
#7 - 2013-05-09 22:06:56 UTC
I like the bulk of the ideas you have listed here.
Not everything, but enough to give it a +1.

I would really like to see more changes on how mining affects the ships as well. I had a relative that spent the better part of his adult life as mining engineer. While the risks have been minimized over the years, the hazards are still plentiful. The fear of a drill breaching a hidden gas pocket, or a shaft collapsing was always forefront on his mind.

I know that there are dangers inherent with certain null sec ores, such as Meroxit I think, which produces a damage causing gas cloud. I wonder if there could be more instances like this in lo-sec and hi-sec from some form or another.

What if bumping into the rocks themselves caused damage to your ships? Maybe not in really hi-sec or newb systems, but the lower the sec status, the more bumping into the roids would cause impact damage based on the velocity in which you hit them? That would be kind of cool, and could solve a lot of "bot mining".

It would be really cool if the belts didn't feel so static. When your mining the ORE in space, you're moving the mass of the rock, into your hold. As all bodies with mass have gravity, maybe the 'roids in close proximity of the one you just popped would react to the mass in your ORE hold. As in the 'roids would change trajectory and close on your ship. This could simulate a "shaft collapse" and also ensure, or make tougher at least, those that choose to illegally bot-mine. You would constantly have to manually pilot your ship to ensure you weren't impacting any roids.

Of course none of that will ever happen, but it is a cool way to look at mining.

A lot of carebear miners want bumping to be a CONCORDable offence. I don't see that ever happening, but if the trade off we're that roids could damage your ship, it might be worth a dialogue.
#8 - 2013-05-10 08:30:02 UTC
Abrazzar I totally agree with you on this, I sometimes use my alt for mining, and it just sits there hoovering up and then move onto the next, I'm happy to have a little more interaction with it, I might even then get both mining to drag in more ore for ammo or modules.

I like it!
#9 - 2013-05-10 08:48:59 UTC
I'm not a miner. I hate mining. This, however, seems like it could have merit if implemented correctly.
#10 - 2013-05-12 12:12:05 UTC
If belts were moved from the current static belt location into dynamically spawning anomalies, the extended scripting possibilities of anomalies could be used to create environmental effects that influence mining activity and safety there.

From the top of my head, those environments could include damage clouds (that could be mined away first with gas harvesters to secure the place), continuous damage from small rocks, explosive expulsions with every mining cycle, influence on ship resistances, signal strength, signature radius, capacitor, etc. similar to w-space environments, local pirates grouping up for a raid or sudden meteor showers and other space weather events.

As people spend a whole lot more time in asteroid sites than combat sites, long timed scripts are much more viable. Anything goes really.
Trans-Stellar Industries
#11 - 2013-05-12 13:58:27 UTC
I like this. +1.

Oh, hi Abrazzar! Long time no see! Hit me up in game sometimes.


To add this idea to a post instead of making my own, I'd also love to see modulated strip miners get an overhaul/minigame. Essentially, a small on-screen visualized audiograph which allows players to adjust the frequency of the two streams in the laser to maximize their ore yield. Fairly easy, has to be done at random intervals, but once each line has it's frequency properly modulated at peak, the character could receive a +25% bonus to their overall yield.

If they don't modulate appropriately, there is actually a penalty and a possible 50% loss. The interface isn't large, and could manage three lasers side by side.

Much more hands on to get maximum mining accomplished, without being so damn click intensive (every couple minutes or so) that it *should* be automated.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?

#12 - 2013-05-22 12:33:33 UTC
I found a few threads that could fit in here with more ways to expand mining.

I like the concept of Planetary Ring Mining as a separate mining method. The rocks in those rings are usually far too small to make a normal mining ships efficient, so having its own option there makes sense.

The idea of Prospecting is somewhat overlapping with my ideas, though it targets much bigger and thus rarer rocks than the up to 30km boulders I was proposing.

Allowing players to Lay Claim on mining sites is very interesting by upping the competition factor and if applied to the two other ideas above could make for really interesting game play.
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2013-06-21 04:20:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Gilligan Zaftig
I'm going to say i like this idea more then mine when it comes to active mining for sure, maybe even merge my idea with this as i was aiming for a passive inlet as well. I also like to suggest what about having this bigger rocks as something to have to scan down like the old gravmetic sites, labeled perhaps has gravmetic distrubance if to avoid the other belts.

Also i appreciate linking this to mine as well, it was first idea i have actually posted and was suprised to see it get any attention.
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#14 - 2013-06-21 06:03:56 UTC
+1 for making mining interactive

-1 for replacing a current system

I suggest adding new belts be the focus, not replacing new ones. But that's my two cents
#15 - 2013-08-21 11:42:24 UTC
Last day of my subscription (for now), so let's bump these one last time.
C C P Alliance
#16 - 2013-11-26 11:50:23 UTC
Reopening this thread

CCP Gargant | EVE Universe esports Coordinator

Caldari State
#17 - 2013-11-26 12:23:47 UTC
I like it. I think mining is a bit dull at the minute which is a pity because it's usually one of the first things new players experience in eve. It could make for some interesting mechanics, especially the idea of hi sec miners making raids into low and nul sec with their hero ventures in the hope they can make it back with an ore hold full of very valuable ore, worth many times more than they could hope to earn in high sec belts. To facilitate things like this I would say it could be balanced in such a way that Ventures are better at targeting the rare ores while the larger barges are more indiscriminate.
#18 - 2013-11-26 12:30:54 UTC
Fourteen Maken wrote:
To facilitate things like this I would say it could be balanced in such a way that Ventures are better at targeting the rare ores while the larger barges are more indiscriminate.

Ventures have the advantage of speed over barges. The veins require a short range laser which means more manoeuvring is needed and they are comparatively small, so you go through more asteroids which means hopping along a belt and along big asteroids. The vein mining was created with the Venture in mind.
#19 - 2013-12-02 02:22:58 UTC
I like the concepts being discussed here.

1. Mining the old way can still happen.
2. Interactions between mining ship and ore can increase ore recovery amount
3. Putting some asteroid mining belts into a dynamic anomaly setting has lots of potential. If possible I would like to see the (rare) case of certain gas clouds/radiation interfering with anyone being able to see the ships that are in it. Offering both ganking protection and ganking ambush possibilities.
#20 - 2013-12-02 07:02:32 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
If belts were moved from the current static belt location into dynamically spawning anomalies, the extended scripting possibilities of anomalies could be used to create environmental effects that influence mining activity and safety there.

From the top of my head, those environments could include damage clouds (that could be mined away first with gas harvesters to secure the place), continuous damage from small rocks, explosive expulsions with every mining cycle, influence on ship resistances, signal strength, signature radius, capacitor, etc. similar to w-space environments, local pirates grouping up for a raid or sudden meteor showers and other space weather events.

As people spend a whole lot more time in asteroid sites than combat sites, long timed scripts are much more viable. Anything goes really.

Since this thread has been re-opened.
I've been saying since they first even talked about the ice sites becoming anoms that ore sites could easily become anoms.
As it solves several issues currently perceived in the mining system.
1. The 'magic' of belts respawning at downtime that breaks immersion.
2. The ability of permanent book marks, and anchoring secure containers when the belt has been stripped.
3. The timezone issues around mining where certain timezones have an advantage to get the good ore from belts.
4. The large number of warpable spots in most systems, with 20-30 belts.

In return it also gives the additional gameplay possibilities listed above using the anomaly system, which create a more dynamic & changing environment for miners, and since they add risk, reward can be higher also.
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