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Space Pinata First Impressions

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#1 - 2013-05-16 13:14:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Brooks Puuntai
So since the update hacking is now working along with "Spew Cans".

The hacking minigame seems simple enough, randomly click until you reach the core. Seems kind of pointless and about as entertaining as waiting for the module to finish. However not terrible.

Space Pinata on the other hand gave me a headache.

Icons are too small and blend way to much with the background. Which means if you are colorblind or have not so good eyesight, good luck with getting anything. It didn't help that the site I was doing was a big flaming ball of gas that was about as bright as the Sun(in Eve).

Also since you need to click, if you have camera tracking on your screen will be constantly moving about, so if you get nauseous easily, bring a bucket.

Overall: Hacking minigame isn't bad but nothing special. Space Pinata is too twitchy for Eve and a PITA to see.

Pic of Pinata

http://eve-files.com/dl/262460

E: Pic is misleading since its a still shot, and not pulsating, which makes it much harder to see.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden

Phoebe Freeport Republic
#2 - 2013-05-16 13:31:51 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
So since the update hacking is now working along with "Spew Cans".

The hacking minigame seems simple enough, randomly click until you reach the core. Seems kind of pointless and about as entertaining as waiting for the module to finish. However not terrible.

Space Pinata on the other hand gave me a headache.

Icons are too small and blend way to much with the background. Which means if you are colorblind or have not so good eyesight, good luck with getting anything. It didn't help that the site I was doing was a big flaming ball of gas that was about as bright as the Sun(in Eve).

Also since you need to click, if you have camera tracking on your screen will be constantly moving about, so if you get nauseous easily, bring a bucket.

Overall: Hacking minigame isn't bad but nothing special. Space Pinata is too twitchy for Eve and a PITA to see.

Pic of Pinata

http://eve-files.com/dl/262460

E: Pic is misleading since its a still shot, and not pulsating, which makes it much harder to see.


Have you tried several sites? I have tried like 4-5 data and hacking sites, I cant use the analyzers on either and when I can play the minigame, nothing pops out :/
#3 - 2013-05-16 13:34:06 UTC
I've only done 3 hacking sites so far. All of which I could run normally by targeting>activating Data Analyzer.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden

#4 - 2013-05-16 13:55:45 UTC
Just did one data site: bad.

Regional Guristas Data Processing Center. The containers are hidden within some contraption with awful collision behaviour.
Hacking game was simple enough. What i don't understand about the game is how player skills comes into play. It's just random clicking on randomly generated pattern and hoping that your hacking skills and mods are good enough. There doesn't seem any way to play it in a significantly smarter and more efficient way then any other player based on player skill.

Loot pinata: first didn't see it. Oh it was below the ship. Then camera freaked out, then ship got stuck in the collision of aforementioned contraption so i could only pick up one before the rest flew away. Zero loot, in low sec.

Gonna try some more tonight for more elaborate feedback.
#5 - 2013-05-16 13:59:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Brooks Puuntai
It has some weird tractor, so all you need to do is single click it and it will bring it in. You don't actually have to fly to each thing.

Nvm I get what you are saying.

Also this is the loot I got from a 0.0 data site, which has been about avg from the sites I've ran so far.

http://eve-files.com/dl/262461

Highlighted only.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden

#6 - 2013-05-16 14:06:41 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
It has some weird tractor, so all you need to do is single click it and it will bring it in. You don't actually have to fly to each thing.


The problem was this contraption the site is embedded. It was between my ship and the pinata so they already were a bit away when spawned. I couldnt fly closer to the actual site because of the colission model. This has potential to be super frustrating.

I saw a different site a few days ago that had even much worse colission. Don't remember the name. It had the containers inside an abandoned space station.
#7 - 2013-05-16 14:22:36 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
It has some weird tractor, so all you need to do is single click it and it will bring it in. You don't actually have to fly to each thing.

Nvm I get what you are saying.

Also this is the loot I got from a 0.0 data site, which has been about avg from the sites I've ran so far.

http://eve-files.com/dl/262461

Highlighted only.


Just ran the complete low sec site that i had. Didn't realise thers still multiple containers to hack. Loot was a joke. Some metal scraps and worthless npc trading goods. Around 50k isk worth.
Pinata is super frustrating and so far not fun at all. They are super hard to grab initialy because of the camera spazzing out, them shaking around and other things to click on accidently plus their tiny size.
#8 - 2013-05-16 14:22:42 UTC
Just did three sites.

First one spewed the cans in my face and I got three of them before they disappeared. Didn't use my MWD so I had problems catching up. You need to be within 2500m to pick them up.

Second spewed them out on the opposite side of the structure so I had to fly around first but with MWD active and knowing what to expect, I caught five.

Third site in low-sec had the hacking structures placed inside a station and closest I got was 10km. The sites need to be cross-checked for accessibility.

And I sure hope the loot is only placeholders; data sheets, electronic parts, metal scraps and small arms just don't cut it.
#9 - 2013-05-16 14:42:09 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
So since the update hacking is now working along with "Spew Cans".

The hacking minigame seems simple enough, randomly click until you reach the core. Seems kind of pointless and about as entertaining as waiting for the module to finish. However not terrible.

Space Pinata on the other hand gave me a headache.

Icons are too small and blend way to much with the background. Which means if you are colorblind or have not so good eyesight, good luck with getting anything. It didn't help that the site I was doing was a big flaming ball of gas that was about as bright as the Sun(in Eve).

Also since you need to click, if you have camera tracking on your screen will be constantly moving about, so if you get nauseous easily, bring a bucket.

Overall: Hacking minigame isn't bad but nothing special. Space Pinata is too twitchy for Eve and a PITA to see.



This.
I'll add that the site I was in (an angel relic site) has a gas cloud around the relic that killed my fps so badly I couldn't pick anything. (yes, even worse than in the middle of a gas site cloud)

There were 4 cans, each one spewed the containers in different directions, and I got collision issues all the time. I was using a Gnosis. It looks like we're supposed to use frigates, because apparently even a BC with an exploration role is too slow/heavy to be of any use in such a site.

Apparently, there's no way to add the spewed containers to the overview, thus I had the feeling to play whack-a-mole more than anything else...

Made me so angry that I shut down the client, I don't even want to try more of this ( I was already in a bad mood today anyway P)
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-05-16 14:49:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Diabolika Spook
I had the same experience: New camera + tiny icons = bad combo.

The loot seemed quite poor to me for the site i've run (in nullsec only 3mils? maybe bad luck)
what's up with the new materials? small arms, electronic parts and data sheets? are they going to be useful in the expansion or just other pointless materials?
I don't know, am I supposed to bring a friend to collect all the cans e catch a kind of epic can or something?

I really hope that loot table are not yet finished.


EDIT: I tried a Archeolgy site with a gas cloud around, and even with the lowest settings my fps dropped drastically. (usually i would zoom out) This was cathastrophic I couldn't catch not even a can.
Phoebe Freeport Republic
#11 - 2013-05-16 15:08:44 UTC
Diabolika Spook wrote:
I had the same experience: New camera + tiny icons = bad combo.

The loot seemed quite poor to me for the site i've run (in nullsec only 3mils? maybe bad luck)
what's up with the new materials? small arms, electronic parts and data sheets? are they going to be useful in the expansion or just other pointless materials?
I don't know, am I supposed to bring a friend to collect all the cans e catch a kind of epic can or something?

I really hope that loot table are not yet finished.


EDIT: I tried a Archeolgy site with a gas cloud around, and even with the lowest settings my fps dropped drastically. (usually i would zoom out) This was cathastrophic I couldn't catch not even a can.


I have the same issues with missions and sleeper sites...all those gas clouds screw my FPS; however I usually zoom out. That wont be easy to do while trying to catch a can that is small anyway, id rather see the gas clouds go in those types of sites.
Forsaken Asylum
#12 - 2013-05-16 15:26:59 UTC
I just want to be sure, there is no visual clue if the site to be hacked has an airlock to station yourself near for the loot explosion?
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-05-16 15:33:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Diabolika Spook
Arriaz wrote:
I just want to be sure, there is no visual clue if the site to be hacked has an airlock to station yourself near for the loot explosion?

I didn't see any, altough I had the impression that there are 2 loot explosion, the second delayed a few seconds, and the cans are spread in 2 different directions... I had some success trying to get first the cans moving away very fast, stayng in range of the "mid-jettison-group" (by doubleclicking a can the ship move to intercept it)

It would also be great to have a confermation message that the can is being retrieved successfully. There are a lot of cans and keeping track of which one you clicked to see when it disappears while seaching for new close cans can be difficult. (atm you can see the icon of the looted item near the cargo icon, but imho that's way to periferic, a message in the middle of the screen would be awesome!)
#14 - 2013-05-16 18:11:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Johan Toralen
Probably not gonna sound like the most constructive feedback but i hate these new sites and the pinata mechanic.

Just ran two more data sites in Low Sec. Regional Guristas Data Fortress and Regional Guristas Data Processing Center.
Massive colission issues on both sites. The Fortress you already get stuck in the colission model from 14km away. The Data Processing Center the structure colission is between you and the loot so you miss out on a lot of loot cans because you cant even reach them from the start.

The new camera is so horrible. Anyone know how to disable it? Might allow me to grab a few more cans.
Catching the loot feels so super clunky yet delicate. It's a real pain in the ass. On top of that i suspect that people with bad internet connection, bad ping, input lag will be in a massive disadvantage. And good luck keeping an eye on dscan while trying to catch the cans. But its no use anyway because you will be stuck in colission model when someone jumps you.
Loot: 11.9m isk from two sites. Of it 245 cubic meters of worthless crap clogging my small cargo bay

Above all it's a click fest. 5 times the same hacking and pinata game for one site, seriously?

My suggestions how to fix it:

- 2, max 3 hacking container/pinata per site. Spread them apart like the old sites if you want it to take longer to complete the site
- remove all colission objects from around the containers. If you have to put them in the backdrop
- bigger symbols for the pinata cans and display them in the overview too
- disable tracking cam by default on the pinata containers
- decent loot (!) These sites should give as much to a solo explorer as the old radars and mags did. I hope your thinking when you said the pinat to invite a second explorer wasnt that two players now have to share between them what a single explorer used to get...
- remove the worthless crap loot. it's pointless and only clogs the small cargo bays
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-05-16 20:10:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Brainless Bimbo
all seems to work ok, lots of mini containers full of npc crap and some useful stuff in relic sites, its a click fest to retrieve so fast frigate required,.

The mini game window needs to close as soon as hack success appears and also make game window more transparent so space is visible thru it for keeping imersion.

otherwise the work done has been great so far, but personally me thinks hacking game breaks immersion due to window size, would make good basis for WiS arcade game.

already dead, just haven´t fallen over yet....

#16 - 2013-05-16 21:57:00 UTC
Johan Toralen wrote:


The new camera is so horrible. Anyone know how to disable it? Might allow me to grab a few more cans.


The option is in the top left corner of the "Selected Item" box, that's usually above the overview. It took me forever to find it as well.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden

#17 - 2013-05-16 22:23:07 UTC
Having run a number of lowsec sites, I have no idea why anyone should be engaged in exploration any more. The piñata mechanic makes the random income from exploration even more random.

Trying to catch minuscule cans is an exercise in frustration, they are hard to see, particularly in the gas clouds that kill FPS and hard to click because they are so tiny. Using a slow ship to collect them lets them get away, using a fast ship overshoots the can and has the same effect because the tractor beam used is too slow. This becomes even more fun when the hacking containers are next to a structure, such as a destroyed station and most of the cans drift into the collision model of the station or any other junk that floats around.
#18 - 2013-05-16 23:43:32 UTC
that new "catch the cans" game is really problematic... a lot problems why it is not funny already pointed, but i want to talk about psychological aspect of that mechanic or why it is bad.
Player cant catch all cans (i doubt 2 players can catch all cans) and naturally he feels frustration. he thinks - hey maybe i picked wrong can? i lost something and i even dont know how much i lost.
I think even if you balance drop and player will get statistically same drop as with old system still new mechanic will cause frustration or similar feelings.

The mind is a constant. Unfortunately the number of people increases every year....

#19 - 2013-05-17 00:01:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Johan Toralen
If the loot is decent it will be something that can be overlooked for isk grinding sake. But even then the mechanic really isn't fun at all. I ran 5 sites today and already have enough of it. The old radars and mags wern't exactly fun but still they were more enjoyable. The pinata is yet another poorly designed gameplay element that adds nothing to the enjoyment of Eve. (see Fw orbiting beacon mechanic for another example).

The new sites could be very exciting if the hacking actualy was a meaningful puzzle where you had to use your wits to break the core and find new secrets. Chance wasted. I was very euphoric about Odyssey but that has vanished after seeing how poorly conceived everything is from the probing to the new profession sites. It's disappointing.

Here's an idea: only spew out the loot if hacking the core fails, otherwise make it lootable like the the old cans.
Trans-Stellar Industries
#20 - 2013-05-17 02:33:05 UTC
Impressions:

Sansha Archaeology Site in ZQ-Z3Y. Had to search a few systems to find a site. Site was interesting, but didn't seem to have the odd collisions as others reported. I had more or less a stonehenge with monument in the center. Ship off to side was my goal, Sansha Archeology 2. Several points to hack.

At first, had a hard time. I'm in a covert ops frigate. MWD on. The hacking itself was extremely simplistic and contained no real difficulty or design, to be honest. I was expecting something more along the lines of 'Deus Ex', but instead, you just click nodes until you have them all clicked.

I'm fine with something that involves player skill or at least a portion of understanding the system. I like that. But this is unnecessary key clicks without any real point. We're not talking about the 'why lock it when I'm just going to unlock it' points, but the 'click 20 times for no reason' points. No thought, no purpose. Provide an isk boost if we get the nodes in the right order or something. Maybe offer a special can if we can do the entire operation correctly. But more thought is needed.

Pop the can, grab the mini cans. No overview, gotcha. What is up with that camera? Fly at mwd speeds, you'll invariably pass the can as you tractor it, and your camera does a 360. However, I was able to grab about 8 or 9 cans.

Second attempt, same issues. More cans grabbed, though.

Third attempt, and I figured out if you center your camera on the ship, you can get a broader view of the space and more easily direct your ship to the cans, while avoiding the camera lag. I captured about 12-15 cans that run. There's also a timing to choosing the can. If you see a tractor beam, pick the next can already.



All in all, the loot wasn't that great, though I got a ton of salvage and parts. The idea of requiring more than one person to completely capitalize on the rewards is great, and seriously bravo (it prevents dual-screens from being able to do what two players do, which I wholeheartedly support). But the camera is buggy, the mini-game lacks content, and by simply working around the bad camera you can achieve probably more than the devs intended for a single person.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?

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