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[Odyssey 1.1] Tech 1 Industrials

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C C P Alliance
#1 Posted: 2013.06.19 11:08  |  Edited by: CCP Ytterbium
UNDER RENOVATION

Please see the following post for explanation: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3252633#post3252633
@ccp_rise
C C P Alliance
#2 Posted: 2013.06.19 11:09  |  Edited by: CCP Rise
Reserved
@ccp_rise
#3 Posted: 2013.06.19 11:20
I really love the whole ship ballancing that is being done. Keep up the good work
Ocularis Inferno
#4 Posted: 2013.06.19 11:20  |  Edited by: Siobhan MacLeary
Never mind, it's early and I'm dumb.

Good to see this finally getting done.
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The Devil's Tattoo
#5 Posted: 2013.06.19 11:20
Who cares about cargo trucks, post about t2 tiercide and let the nerdragefest begin!
Drunk 'n' Disorderly
#6 Posted: 2013.06.19 11:23  |  Edited by: Warde Guildencrantz
switch the mammoth with the hoarder please. No one wants to fly that ugly monstrosity called the hoarder and it wouldn't make sense that the mastodon has a mammoth hull otherwise.

Edit: they switched them, thanks for the likes
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#7 Posted: 2013.06.19 11:23  |  Edited by: Steve Ronuken
Makes sense, I guess.

It'd be nice to have something like a ore hold, or a fitting service on the others, but it would be limiting for anyone but the gallente.


I mentioned this in a previous post (somewhere) but I can see the following Industrial roles:

1: tanky
2: fast - This is a lot less useful. As fast can be covered by a different class. A frigate sized courier
3: big
4: Specialist cargo (ore/gas/ice)
5: Fitting service
6: Fleet hangar


And we already have:
7: Salvager
8: PI specialist cargo.
Cosmic Consortium
#8 Posted: 2013.06.19 11:25
Siobhan MacLeary wrote:
Why the bonus to Max Velocity on the cargo-spec ships? They're already slow enough to align, why penalize them more?


A bonus to max velocity has no impact on align time or time-to-warp.
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No Holes Barred
#9 Posted: 2013.06.19 11:25
I figured you would go with 1 tanky, 1 fast and 1 that can carry a lot of cargo. Why not do that with the "extra" indys, and add the 2 missing races sometime in the future. As a stopgap measure, you could have empire corp versions of the amarr and caldari indys that would fill the role for now.
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Cosmic Consortium
#10 Posted: 2013.06.19 11:26
Give the Mammoth to ORE and turn it into the second ORE Industrial, a specialist ore & mineral hauler.
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Caldari State
#11 Posted: 2013.06.19 11:27
i for one welcome our new bestower overlords.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#12 Posted: 2013.06.19 11:30  |  Edited by: Magic Crisp
CCP Rise wrote:

Last, I want to talk a little about the 4 'extra' industrials. These were an incredibly hot topic here at the office, and we considered a really wide range of options for them. In the end, we felt that removing them from the game probably didn't add a lot of value, and would have been a disappointing departure from EVE history, but on the other side, giving them a job that was interesting and valuable but only available for Gallente and Minmatar felt unfair. Our hope is that some time in the near future, perhaps because of new industry development, we will find a home for them that either makes sense with the current assets, or warrants adding new industrial ships to the game to balance out all those Iterons. Until then, they will be a bit marginalized. I hope that because of having real choices within the two new roles, you will see the class as gaining a lot of depth, despite four of the ships falling outside those roles.

Thanks for reading, looking forward to feedback as always.

Sorry, what do you mean by unfair? There are already a lot of things, like the resist VS repbonus thingie, that's also unfair in most of the cases. The damnation is able to have a proper amount of EHP compared to all other command ships (at which they fail, because staying alive while boosting is their role). A lot of things are unfair already, so a few more won't even be noticed imho :)

Particularly, i could imagine a more offensive (2 turret slots), and a more defensive, and an armor and a shieldtanked hauler for the matar/gaylente line. Sometimes they both can do each kind of tanks (armor/shield pest,cane,etc),why not support that dual-personality of the race here as well...
The Ditanian Alliance
#13 Posted: 2013.06.19 11:32
Oh h*ll no, itty 4 is one of the best indus there is. Also you are removing over 1k hp from the itty 5, how is that going to give it 50% more base hp compared to the old?

What this game needs is more ships, not less. The amarr and caldari need their own mid size indus. While you are on it, give itty5 a proper model, it looks like a long sausage that would snap in two moment it turns.

space weaponry and trade
#14 Posted: 2013.06.19 11:33  |  Edited by: Hopelesshobo
CCP Rise wrote:

BADGER MARK II

Caldari Industrial Skill Bonuses:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Max Velocity

Slot layout: 1H(-1), 6M, 4L(+1); 1 turrets , 1 launchers
Fittings: 80 PWG, 1000 CPU
Cargo (capacity / capacity with max expanders, t1 expander rigs and all 5 skills): 7000(+1750) / 35167m3
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 680(+132) / 760(-256) / 810(-206)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 115 / .93 / 13000000(-500000) / 16.8(-.6)
Signature radius: 230(-20)


So will the transport ships be changed as well then? Using the current Bustard stats to compare, it has a higher tank and a smaller sig radius, but hauls less, and moves slower then the new badger mark II. If you buffed the bustards hold to at least match that of the new Badger II, it would give a clear idea to everyone that the T2 transports are better then the T1.

EDIT: Or use the T2 transports to bridge the gap between freighters and T1 haulers.
Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
#15 Posted: 2013.06.19 11:34  |  Edited by: Aurora RedNova
I really hope you grab the Tech2 haulers as next after you are already deep in the matter with tech1.
Tech2 haulers need a really big rebalance (deep space transports are not for deep space actually and move like a whale on valium).

Btw. vulnerability of transporters like charon etc for ganks is a REALLY big issue too^^
Caldari State
#16 Posted: 2013.06.19 11:35
ok questions/comments:
- what about production costs? will the hoarder be both cheaper and more useful than the mammoth?
- why not make iteron III and V the baseline and turn I and II into even cheaper 'throwaway' haulers?
- i do not see a particular need to streamline every industrial hull. what's wrong with having some leftover redundancies in a ship class that nobody cares about anyway?
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF
Cosmic Consortium
#17 Posted: 2013.06.19 11:38  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
Just for reference, Distribution mission cargo sizes:

  1. 400m3
  2. 440m3
  3. 4200m3
  4. 8000m3


I like that I can choose to run L4 distribution missions in a small, agile industrial.
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The Fourth District
#18 Posted: 2013.06.19 11:40  |  Edited by: Turelus
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
switch the mammoth with the hoarder please. No one wants to fly that ugly monstrosity called the hoarder and it wouldn't make sense that the mastodon has a mammoth hull otherwise.

I would agree, the Mammoth looks larger and already has the T2 hull. Unless the art department has some secret reason they want them switch it doesn't make much sense.

Also it means everyone who owns a Mammoth (which is anyone using Minmatar industrials) will be selling them and buying Hoarders for no reason other than the art department went "We like this look more".
Do you really want to upset every industrialist and Minmatar industrial pilot out there and make ships they already own and use everyday the lesser choice because of someone in art?
Lieutenant Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District

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RvB - RED Federation
#19 Posted: 2013.06.19 11:47  |  Edited by: Azami Nevinyrall
Why not give the other industrials bonuses related to PI materals?
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C C P Alliance
#20 Posted: 2013.06.19 11:49
Quote:
Oh h*ll no, itty 4 is one of the best indus there is. Also you are removing over 1k hp from the itty 5, how is that going to give it 50% more base hp compared to the old?


The iteron 5 loses some hp, but the new Iteron has around 50% more hp than the former Iteron 5.

T2 haulers of course will get rebalance as well, but likely not until after some more pressing T2 classes (let me get done with this so we can do HACs =)

Quote:
Sorry, what do you mean by unfair? There are already a lot of things, like the resist VS repbonus thingie, that's also unfair in most of the cases.


As you say, its resist vs repair. In the case of Indies, it would have had to be: resist vs nothing because Caldari/Amarr have no ship. This would have been the only case in the whole game of one race having access to a role that wasn't balanced in some way for the other races with another ship.

Will keep listening about the Mammoth. There isn't an enormous amount of them being used so it felt like it wouldn't be too painful of a transition if it was better for visual direction. I'm less concerned about the continuity with the T2 model, but the differences in cost, and the forced transition for people who were using the Mammoth are real issues. Keep feedback coming and I'll poke around on my side some more.

@ccp_rise
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