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Dev Blog: An Update on Bug Reporting, Part 1

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#1 Posted: 2013.07.03 17:12  |  Edited by: CCP Gargant
Good evening pilots!

For almost 10 years, you, the EVE Community have been assisting us with the fight against bugs and unforeseen issues with EVE.

Some changes to how you can assist are on the horizon, and CCP Goliath, EVE's Quality Assurance Director is here to explain how the bug reporting process will be changing in the future, and how vigilant EVE players can continue to help us to identify and squash pesky bugs and defects.

You can read all about it in his new Dev Blog here.
CCP Falcon   ||   EVE Community Manager   ||   EVE Illuminati

@CCP_Falcon   ||   @EVE_LiveEvents
Fidelas Constans
#2 Posted: 2013.07.03 17:18  |  Edited by: Kyt Thrace
1st: Great job CCP

beat Chribba by seconds \o/
R.I.P. Vile Rat
Otherworld Empire
#3 Posted: 2013.07.03 17:18
Supah dupah!

And happy birthdayah Falconah and Guardah!

/c
★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★
Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'
Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar
C C P Alliance
#4 Posted: 2013.07.03 17:23
Kyt Thrace wrote:
1st: Great job CCP

beat Chribba by seconds \o/


Thanks! hi5
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
#5 Posted: 2013.07.03 17:25
So what happens to already submitted but unprocessed bugreports?
Will they be forgotten because new system started from scratch?

C C P Alliance
#6 Posted: 2013.07.03 17:26
Sarmatiko wrote:
So what happens to already submitted but unprocessed bugreports?
Will they be forgotten because new system started from scratch?


They have all been migrated into our new system. The only difference is you won't be able to interact with them, but we will still work on them.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
#7 Posted: 2013.07.03 17:29  |  Edited by: Bienator II
my first question is: will it be a public bug tracker? (most bugs are not private, people can see if a bug is already filed and can also try to attach additional information to it if they think it helps to resolve the bug)

CCP could here once again go a step further and do what for example open source communities are doing with great success. Yes there are bugs which should not be public once they are filed but they have to be reviewed anyway. (JIRA is great btw ;))
eve style bounties (done)
dust boarding parties
imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW
C C P Alliance
#8 Posted: 2013.07.03 17:31
Bienator II wrote:
my first question is: will it be a public bug tracker? (most bugs are not private, people can see if a bug is already filed and can also try to attach additional information to it)

CCP could here once again go a step further and do what for example open source communities are doing with great success. Yes there are bugs which should not be public once they are filed but they have to be reviewed anyway.


No our bug tracker will not be public. It would help with dupes but that's pretty much all it would help with, as well as causing a fair few headaches that aren't really worth going into.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
The 20 Minuters
#9 Posted: 2013.07.03 17:41
CCP Goliath wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
my first question is: will it be a public bug tracker? (most bugs are not private, people can see if a bug is already filed and can also try to attach additional information to it)

CCP could here once again go a step further and do what for example open source communities are doing with great success. Yes there are bugs which should not be public once they are filed but they have to be reviewed anyway.


No our bug tracker will not be public. It would help with dupes but that's pretty much all it would help with, as well as causing a fair few headaches that aren't really worth going into.


But will I be able to see and add comments to bugs I reported myself? That has always been my biggest annoyance with the old system; you couldn't simply add an extra comment for more details. And the comment from support would end up in the issue either.

I take great pride in helping a game along. Letting me look back at a list of reported issues is quite rewarding!

Either way it will surely be an improvement which I've commented to you about in previous bug reports.
RISE of LEGION
#10 Posted: 2013.07.03 17:43
I'm guessing this is Eve only and not Dust?
#11 Posted: 2013.07.03 18:11
Hi,

please add a better solution for the "Computer" section of the old web based form.
i am getting old and don't remember every spec of my pc (respectively i don't care anymore). maybe store the last entered text somewhere (cookie?).
Or even better - (pre)fill this box with a tool via flash/ocx or copy and paste from a standalone tool. And/or store user entered text somewhere else (e.g. for special Software/hardware/whatever)

and it would be also nice if there is a link to known bugs/unfinished features when filling a SISI bug report.
one day or another i found a forum post about unfinished stuff. but when i've found a bug (on SISI) and want to create a bug report i don't want to search the forum (it's still a game and not work - right ? :D).
it's hard enough for me to write a bug report in english with all neccessary infomations, reprod steps and so on...

cya

P.S. i had the "can't move my camera bug after undocking" error on Sisi before it was rolled out to TQ. And i didn't fill a bug report because of the reasons above...
Goonswarm Federation
#12 Posted: 2013.07.03 18:14  |  Edited by: pmchem
I thought about filing a bug report about not being able to report bugs for two weeks but then realized it would be like some of my other bug reports and never read/acted upon/followed up anyway.

Instead it sounds like we should just post gamebreaking bugs in public instead.

Here's some of my recent favorites which CCP never bothered to reproduce, fix or reply to (pick one):

bug 162983, character missing in docked list. logging in multiple clients sometimes you cannot see a character (of yours) that you KNOW is docked in the same station as you (because you have both clients open), despite that character showing in local. ccp closed it because they couldn't reproduce and LALALALALA THERE IS NO RACE CONDITION IN THE UI I CANT HEAR YOUUUU

bug 162982, a bug IN THE BUG REPORTER. when you have multiple accounts/clients, and you use the IGBR, and attempt to submit a bug report, the default account name may be a different account than the character/account you're logged into! while not harmful, totally absurd to have bugs in the bug reporter. gg CCP. status: ignored

bug 161967, standings not displaying properly in local. when you login the local list often has way too many people displaying as neutral instead of proper standings, and you have to minimize/remaximize local to correct it. didn't want those standings anyway. old, obvious, and annoying bug? ccp knows what to do -- status: ignored.

Have fun with jira. I suggest you do not import any of the old bugs, and chalk up the ignoring and non-fixing to the infrastructure transition instead of having insufficient staff handling reports of players who bother to go through proper dev channels to help you fix this damn game.
#13 Posted: 2013.07.03 18:17
CCP Goliath wrote:

No our bug tracker will not be public. It would help with dupes but that's pretty much all it would help with, as well as causing a fair few headaches that aren't really worth going into.



You don't want to deal with endless threads from customers asking/whining about devspeak? How come? Blink
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Psychotic Tendencies.
#14 Posted: 2013.07.03 18:18
Can we expect work on the Petitions system soon? Every time I file a petition, it freezes my client up for about a minute.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
#15 Posted: 2013.07.03 18:21
So in dev blog first BR files in november 2003, first one that was a proper bug, number 62, filed the month before ...
C C P Alliance
#16 Posted: 2013.07.03 18:36
MainDrain wrote:
So in dev blog first BR files in november 2003, first one that was a proper bug, number 62, filed the month before ...


Haha whoops! November is supposed to be September :)
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
C C P Alliance
#17 Posted: 2013.07.03 18:36
ArmEagle Kusoni wrote:

But will I be able to see and add comments to bugs I reported myself? That has always been my biggest annoyance with the old system; you couldn't simply add an extra comment for more details. And the comment from support would end up in the issue either.


I can answer this in terms of website part: The first release will be the basic submit a bug report stuff. The following release shortly after that will be adding the ability to view a previously submitted report and edit it. I don't have a definite answer yet on whether that will include comments or if that will come in a later iteration (I strongly suspect later).

Also, we are way more excited than you would believe at the prospect of killing off the separate bugs.eveonline.com website and replacing it with something much better in the Support section of the Community website! Very excited, but of course not as much as CCP Goliath is in general about this great project though!!
"There is no knowledge without unity"
C C P Alliance
#18 Posted: 2013.07.03 18:36
StevieTopSiders wrote:
Can we expect work on the Petitions system soon? Every time I file a petition, it freezes my client up for about a minute.


Not my department, but if the client freezes I assume you're uploading files? It's not great behaviour I admit...
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
C C P Alliance
#19 Posted: 2013.07.03 18:45
pmchem wrote:
I thought about filing a bug report about not being able to report bugs for two weeks but then realized it would be like some of my other bug reports and never read/acted upon/followed up anyway.

Instead it sounds like we should just post gamebreaking bugs in public instead.

Here's some of my recent favorites which CCP never bothered to reproduce, fix or reply to (pick one):

bug 162983, character missing in docked list. logging in multiple clients sometimes you cannot see a character (of yours) that you KNOW is docked in the same station as you (because you have both clients open), despite that character showing in local. ccp closed it because they couldn't reproduce and LALALALALA THERE IS NO RACE CONDITION IN THE UI I CANT HEAR YOUUUU

bug 162982, a bug IN THE BUG REPORTER. when you have multiple accounts/clients, and you use the IGBR, and attempt to submit a bug report, the default account name may be a different account than the character/account you're logged into! while not harmful, totally absurd to have bugs in the bug reporter. gg CCP. status: ignored

bug 161967, standings not displaying properly in local. when you login the local list often has way too many people displaying as neutral instead of proper standings, and you have to minimize/remaximize local to correct it. didn't want those standings anyway. old, obvious, and annoying bug? ccp knows what to do -- status: ignored.

Have fun with jira. I suggest you do not import any of the old bugs, and chalk up the ignoring and non-fixing to the infrastructure transition instead of having insufficient staff handling reports of players who bother to go through proper dev channels to help you fix this damn game.



So, I had a look at your bug reports. The non repro one - 4 separate testers tried to repro with the information you gave, and couldn't. That's a nonrepro over 23 separate attempts using varying conditions. Note the "sometimes" in your statement about the defect - some issues with varying repro rates can be very difficult to reproduce and we only have so much time to allocate to each issue.

The issue you find with the bug reporter isn't actually an issue at all, it's by design, and ultimately changing anyway.

Unfortunately the 3rd issue just looks like it hasn't been gotten around to yet. It's not that it's being ignored, but we are only so many Smile It is very well written though - kudos to you!
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
#20 Posted: 2013.07.03 19:14  |  Edited by: Rutger Janssen
When will we get part 2? I've been dying to see something being done about bug reports.

Is the work on this also the reason why it takes months to get the bug reports filtered? Kinda disappointed that I have 14 bug outstanding bug reports that need to be processed, the oldest being almost 6 months old :(

I really really hope that the feedback is added very soon after release, I hate having couple bug reports are attached to defects that are fixed but even worse, 2.5 year old bug reports that are still attached to defect. I have no idea if they ever going to be fixed. Even an intern with no python experience could fix some of them :/

Can you also tell me what has been done about 143109? First it was attached to a defect but now it's set as not reproducable? Did you get around to delaying the R.A.M. assembling/consumption process or was it just a BH/Dev installing jobs couple of times?
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