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[Odyssey 1.1] Warfare Links, Mindlinks, Gang bonuses

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C C P Alliance
#1 - 2013-08-01 13:15:53 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
:Edit: Updates posted on August 7th :Edit:

"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." - Laozi

For Odyssey 1.1. we're going to be taking a swing at aspects of our warfare link features, as well as rebalancing command ships. We believe that the package of changes we've put together will be a significant step forward for the game, but it's definitely not the end of iteration on these features.

For years one of the most hotly discussed issues surrounding warfare links is their ability to apply bonuses to fleet members anywhere in the same solar system. We will not be changing this aspect of the feature in Odyssey 1.1. There are some serious technical hurdles to adjusting this aspect of the features, which are being worked on as we speak but for which we are not currently ready to announce an ETA.

What we will be changing for 1.1 is:
  • The strength of the bonuses provided by Warfare links
  • The way that skills, ship bonuses and implants affect the strength of warfare bonuses
  • The specific types of bonuses provided by the Information Warfare mindlink and Information Wafare: Sensor Integrity warfare link
  • The method by which mindlink implants can be obtained
  • The fitting requirements of warfare link modules, and their use within starbase forcefields
  • Many aspects of Command Ship balance, including what bonuses they receive to warfare link strength
  • The base rep amount of all armor repairers and most shield boosters

  • I'm going to split our changes into three threads for 1.1 and one for a discussion of graphical model changes that will not be implemented in 1.1. but may come later this year. This thread will cover the changes to warfare link modules, bonuses, and effects, including the changes to mindlinks and strategic cruiser Warfare Processor subsystems.

    The other threads are (hyperlinks to come):
    Command Ship Balancing
    Local armor and shield rep changes
    Command Ship model changes

    Let's start with some changes to the warfare link modules themselves:

  • Warfare links (other than mining links) can no longer be activated inside a starbase forcefield
  • People can still orbit just outside the forcefield I know, but they will at least have to keep an eye on that character so it's an improvement.

  • Powergrid need of all warfare links modules decreased by 100.
  • This goes alongside the balance changes to command ships, battlecruisers and strategic cruisers. We want to be able to balance a ship's fittings such that fitting choices allow people different tradeoffs for the choice of what to do with their unbonused "utility" highslots. Some may want to leave it empty or go with a small neut, some may want to fit a gang link fore 100 or 110 pwg, some may want to go with a medium neut at 175 pwg. All of those choices provide different benefits and will require different sacrifices.


    Quick mention of the changes to Strategic Cruiser Warfare Processor subsystems:

    The Warfare Processors will now provide a 2% increase in the strength of warfare links per level of their racial defensive subsystem skill. They will also now provide bonuses to three different types of gang links:
  • Loki: Siege, Armored, Skirmish
  • Proteus: Armored, Skirmish, Information
  • Tengu: Siege, Skirmish, Information
  • Legion: Armored, Skirmish, Information


  • Next we'll cover the changes to the link bonuses themselves.
    In 1.1 some links will be getting reductions in their maximum possible strength (although none of them are dropping below the maximum levels that were possible before the introduction of Strategic cruisers and Tech Two links). We are also smoothing out the advancement path for gang boosting gameplay, making the base links stronger and reducing the effect of the modifiers on that strength. This will make the training path for gang boosting more of a slope and less of a cliff.

    Our changes to the modifiers to warfare link strength are:
  • The four Warfare Specialist skill bonus changed from the current 100% bonus per level (after the first level) to 20% bonus per level.
  • Mindlink bonus reduced from +50% to +25%
  • T3 Warfare processor subsystem bonus changed to 2% per level. Command Ship link bonuses continue to be 3% per level. Orcas and Active Core Rorquals keep their 3% and 10% bonuses respectively.

  • And below you will find the changes to the base strength of each warfare link, including the maximum available boost (with all skills and the mindlink and maximum ship bonuses) both before and after the patch.

    All defensive (Siege and Armored) links:
    T1: 4.8%
    T2: 6%
    Max bonus per link with all modifiers: 25.9%
    Former max bonus: 35%

    Information Warfare: Electronic Superiority bonuses to ECM and Target Painters:
    T1: 6.4%
    T2: 8%
    Max bonus per link with all modifiers: 34.5%
    Former max bonus: 35%

    Information Warfare: Electronic Superiority bonuses to Tracking Disruptors and Sensor Damps:
    T1: 4%
    T2: 5%
    Max bonus per link with all modifiers: 21.5%
    Former max bonus: 21%

    Information Warfare: Recon Operation:
    T1: 6.4%
    T2: 8%
    Max bonus per link with all modifiers: 34.5%
    Former max bonus: 35%

    Information Warfare: Sensor Integrity:
    T1: 9.6%
    T2: 12%
    Max bonus per link with all modifiers: 51.75%
    Former max bonus: 53%

    Skirmish Warfare: Evasive Maneuvers:
    T1: 6.4%
    T2: 8%
    Max bonus per link with all modifiers: 34.5%
    Former max bonus: 35%

    Skirmish Warfare: Interdiction Maneuvers:
    T1: 6.4%
    T2: 8%
    Max bonus per link with all modifiers: 34.5%
    Former max bonus: 53%

    Skirmish Warfare: Rapid Deployment:
    T1: 5.6%
    T2: 7%
    Max bonus per link with all modifiers: 30.2%
    Former max bonus: 35%

    Mining Foreman: Laser Optimization and Harvester Capacitor
    T1: 6%
    T2: 7.5%
    Max bonus per link with all modifiers: 42.2%
    Former max bonus: 42.2%

    Mining Foreman: Field Enhancement
    T1: 13.6%
    T2: 17%
    Max bonus per link with all modifiers: 95.7%
    Former max bonus: 95%


    We are also making some changes to the specific bonus from the Information Warfare: Sensor Integrity link:
  • Information Warfare: Sensor Integrity link will provide its bonus to both sensor strength and lock range.

  • And finally we're making some significant changes to the availability of mindlink implants:
  • Adding normal T2 mindlinks (including mining mindlinks) to the Concord LP store for 20,000 Concord LP and 20m isk (~60-80m final product sale price).
  • Adding Navy Mindlinks with the 25% bonus to two different disciplines at once (matching racial command ship bonuses) to the normal racial LP stores at 100,000 LP and 100m isk, as well as requiring you to provide one of each of the T2 mindlinks that it combines. (~350m isk final product sale price).

  • Links at the top lead to the threads for Command Ship and local repair module changes, and we're very interested to hear your feedback on these changes in the thread below.

    Game Designer | Team Five-0

    Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
    Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

    Goonswarm Federation
    #2 - 2013-08-01 13:18:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
    maybe first?

    e: boom

    e2:

    Quote:
    Warfare links (other than mining links) can no longer be activated inside a starbase forcefield

    It's previously been suggested that active links cause an increase in a ship's sig radius (thus discouraging the 'AFK in a safespot' approach by making them easier to probe). Has this been considered?

    Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

    #3 - 2013-08-01 13:26:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
    @CCP Fozzie: These need more sticky applied? Try T2 Sticky Big smile

    Guess you caught it as I posted up.
    In Tea We Trust
    #4 - 2013-08-01 13:31:02 UTC
    Awesome.
    C C P Alliance
    #5 - 2013-08-01 13:32:17 UTC
    Scatim Helicon wrote:
    maybe first?

    e: boom

    e2:

    Quote:
    Warfare links (other than mining links) can no longer be activated inside a starbase forcefield

    It's previously been suggested that active links cause an increase in a ship's sig radius (thus discouraging the 'AFK in a safespot' approach by making them easier to probe. Has this been considered?


    It has been heavily considered and a similar idea (using sensor strength instead of sig radius) was actually a part of one version of this proposal. However we've decided to wait and see how these changes work out before doing something that could potentially make playing ongrid with these ships worse in the name of making offgrid use even worser. (I know it's not a word but it should be.)

    Game Designer | Team Five-0

    Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
    Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

    #6 - 2013-08-01 13:33:21 UTC
    Good night, sweet point and web range. RIP Sad

    The voice of truth.

    Amarr Empire
    #7 - 2013-08-01 13:37:00 UTC
    Mining links should not be given special treatment...

    Give them an ORE battlecruiser size ship to run links on or something but to let them run links inside shield is pretty lame.
    #8 - 2013-08-01 13:37:37 UTC
    No links inside force field is the best aspect of this post. Reduction to defensive boosts is the worst. It will hit small fleets harder than it hits large fleets which can simply compensate by bringing another 20 logistics. Was this intentional?

    Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.

    Gallente Federation
    #9 - 2013-08-01 13:37:59 UTC
    Obviously there won't be a navy version of the mining links, but will there be an Ore version of the mining links with the same increase in bonus as the Navy links?
    #10 - 2013-08-01 13:38:46 UTC
    Basically loving all of this, except:

    A link for boosing insta-locking camps? Really not sure if want. Ugh
    Pandemic Horde
    #11 - 2013-08-01 13:38:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
    Nice changes, probably not far enough but great to see. I'd love to see the buggers a bit easier to probe down too.

    Please put boosters on kill mails if possible!

    Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

    C C P Alliance
    #12 - 2013-08-01 13:39:16 UTC
    Lexar Mundi wrote:
    Mining links should not be given special treatment...

    Give them an ORE battlecruiser size ship to run links on or something but to let them run links inside shield is pretty lame.


    We do intend to move mining links out of forcefields someday, but we'll want to rebalance the Orca and Rorqual first to make putting them on grid more viable first.

    Game Designer | Team Five-0

    Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
    Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

    C C P Alliance
    #13 - 2013-08-01 13:41:16 UTC
    Daneel Trevize wrote:
    Basically loving all of this, except:

    A link for boosing insta-locking camps? Really not sure if want. Ugh


    It's just 2% per level with the skill, or a flat 15% instead if you have the mindlink.

    We had some discussion about how it affects instalocking camps, and concluded that it's within reasonable levels, especially considering the recent nerf to remote SeBos.

    Game Designer | Team Five-0

    Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
    Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

    HYDRA RELOADED
    #14 - 2013-08-01 13:41:45 UTC
    Finally you posted it.

    Now I just have to link to this thread rather than explaining everything you said during the brunch.

    But nice changes :)

    ❤️️💛💚💙💜

    C C P Alliance
    #15 - 2013-08-01 13:42:41 UTC
    MainDrain wrote:
    Obviously there won't be a navy version of the mining links, but will there be an Ore version of the mining links with the same increase in bonus as the Navy links?


    The navy links give the same bonus as the normal mindlinks, but they give it to multiple disciplines at once.

    We may add an Ore link at some point, if so it will probably give Mining Foreman and Siege Warfare bonuses.

    Game Designer | Team Five-0

    Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
    Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

    HYDRA RELOADED
    #16 - 2013-08-01 13:44:17 UTC
    Can you go on a dev roam through the amarr-minmatar warzone spamming "Warfare links (other than mining links) can no longer be activated inside a starbase forcefield "

    Post tears here pls
    Goonswarm Federation
    #17 - 2013-08-01 13:46:13 UTC
    Interesting changes. I noticed that you've basically cut the bonus of all the "good" links (+EHP, point/web length, speed), which is unfortunate, but I suppose it was inevitable.

    The capital local rep change is interesting. Do those bonuses "stack" with the bonus to local reps that is granted during siege and triage?

    This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

    Gallente Federation
    #18 - 2013-08-01 13:46:32 UTC
    CCP Fozzie wrote:
    MainDrain wrote:
    Obviously there won't be a navy version of the mining links, but will there be an Ore version of the mining links with the same increase in bonus as the Navy links?


    The navy links give the same bonus as the normal mindlinks, but they give it to multiple disciplines at once.

    We may add an Ore link at some point, if so it will probably give Mining Foreman and Siege Warfare bonuses.


    My reading comprehension skill obviously needs some work.

    But good to know that it may be considered
    #19 - 2013-08-01 13:50:00 UTC
    CCP Fozzie wrote:
    Daneel Trevize wrote:
    Basically loving all of this, except:

    A link for boosing insta-locking camps? Really not sure if want. Ugh


    It's just 2% per level with the skill, or a flat 15% instead if you have the mindlink.

    We had some discussion about how it affects instalocking camps, and concluded that it's within reasonable levels, especially considering the recent nerf to remote SeBos.
    Ok, but are you sure BSs don't need a base scanres buff? Being as they really can't tackle anything that doesn't want to be tackled, through terrible scanres, being high mass, and then their weapons are still balanced so as to not easily be able to hit smaller things. Would there be an obvious problem if the scan res difference between classes were greatly reduced?
    #20 - 2013-08-01 13:52:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Gneeznow
    All these changes look really good tbh, and that's coming from a CS pilot with 8 mil in leadership. The only gripe I have is maybe interdiction link being nerfed a little too hard, but in fairness, it's been abused to hell so I can see why the links are getting toned down a bit.

    edit: just saw you turned the claymore into a missile boat I take back all the nice things I said screw you, jerk
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