EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Need money to start trading? (It's called start up Capital)

First post
Author
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-11-10 00:08:12 UTC
Hello everybody! Emkayu again, I've been posting recently with little helpful tips to get started in trading, but the one major thing I forgot is that to actually trade properly you need a (for a noob) considerable amount of liquid ISK.

I said "Make it So!" and wrote an article on how to quickly get some ISK together to start trading!

How to get ISK to start Trading in EVE Online
Caldari State
#2 - 2011-11-10 03:52:07 UTC
Quote:
Remember that Mining is the only way to get minerals that drive the Economy in EVE Online, even the common ones!


Nope.


Quote:
Remember to use jettison mining, whereby instead of docking with your cargo, you jettison it and carry on mining, then pick up a large chunk with an industrial ship, maximising your ISK/hr by saving time on the amount of trips you need to take.


Don't encourage newbies to get can flipped.


Quote:
I only have to tend to my mining frigate



Wat.




OP: check out this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost and with it in mind re-write the guide. Newbies, if you want starting capital you probably won't do better than running missions or if you're very pedantic about opportunity cost and isk/effort/hour you're better off just buying a GTC, if you're a good trader you'll make it back anyway.
Destination SkillQueue
#3 - 2011-11-10 06:10:23 UTC
I'll have to eccho the others, this guide isn't very good and needs a rewrite.
Caldari State
#4 - 2011-11-10 06:17:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Quinnie Huang
Any random level 1 combat mission + salvager > mining.

But then again, I measure my wealth by minutes. Big smile

The only time I would even consider mining is if I have to put my baby to sleep while she's being cranky.
#5 - 2011-11-10 08:20:42 UTC
Quote:
It’s pretty boring yes, but I always find that turning down the sounds of the game and then reading or doing some actual real life work always works

May I ask, why you play the game in the first place if you rather like being AFK doing RL stuff?

If it bores you, then DO NOT DO IT! IT'S A GAME NOT A JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Buy a PLEX or a GTC and use this capital instead.
#6 - 2011-11-10 11:39:42 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Quote:
Courier missions .... Add to this an afterburner so that Autopilot is faster

You have to be there to switch the Afterburner on and it should be a MWD anyway.
#7 - 2011-11-10 14:49:33 UTC
Man, you guys sure are harsh on a new guy just trying to help out.... What?
#8 - 2011-11-10 15:34:55 UTC
You would probably make isk faster by taking a Shield Booster I to Jita and spam local trying to sell it as a complex booster.Ugh
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2011-11-11 01:56:08 UTC
Okay, looks like a rewrite is on order, again like I said in the OP, it's only based on my experience, what I've been doing in my 1 month of EVE, clearly you guys understand a lot more about the game than me and I respect that, will definitely repost here once I've rewritten the guide, by the way have you guys check out the video on the site?
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2011-11-11 01:58:15 UTC
Lutz Major wrote:
Quote:
It’s pretty boring yes, but I always find that turning down the sounds of the game and then reading or doing some actual real life work always works

May I ask, why you play the game in the first place if you rather like being AFK doing RL stuff?

If it bores you, then DO NOT DO IT! IT'S A GAME NOT A JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Buy a PLEX or a GTC and use this capital instead.


Some may not want to spend actual cash on a PLEX or GTC on top of the subscription, but I'll definitely add it to the rewrite. I'm thinking I might eve take it down completely and stick to guides on trading.
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-11-11 02:01:54 UTC
Sverige Pahis wrote:
Quote:
Remember that Mining is the only way to get minerals that drive the Economy in EVE Online, even the common ones!


Nope.


Quote:
Remember to use jettison mining, whereby instead of docking with your cargo, you jettison it and carry on mining, then pick up a large chunk with an industrial ship, maximising your ISK/hr by saving time on the amount of trips you need to take.


Don't encourage newbies to get can flipped.


Quote:
I only have to tend to my mining frigate



Wat.




OP: check out this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost and with it in mind re-write the guide. Newbies, if you want starting capital you probably won't do better than running missions or if you're very pedantic about opportunity cost and isk/effort/hour you're better off just buying a GTC, if you're a good trader you'll make it back anyway.


Funnily enough everything you just said happened in the past few hours, got can flipped, bought a giant secure can. I'm definitely going to look into a rewrite, possibly just focusing on mission running. Thanks for the feedback regardless, it's stuff like this that compels me to write better guides.
Caldari State
#12 - 2011-11-11 03:04:33 UTC
Emkayu Goffish wrote:
Okay, looks like a rewrite is on order, again like I said in the OP, it's only based on my experience, what I've been doing in my 1 month of EVE, clearly you guys understand a lot more about the game than me and I respect that, will definitely repost here once I've rewritten the guide, by the way have you guys check out the video on the site?


You don't say in your OP that you're only a month old, had I known that I would have went easier on you :). Good luck with your rewrite.
#13 - 2011-11-11 13:49:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk
First off ... people shouldn't take advice about mining from mission runners ...



Next if you want to be a trader - you could try trading to build your capital. It will give you practice, experience and a greater familiarity with your area.


One method ... is to pick something that there's a good bit of trade volume to ... say Veldspar ... then jump around to the various regions near your trade hub. Compare the prices. If you find someone who is selling it for a good bit below what someone has placed buy orders for - you can buy up that guys stuff and sell it to the guy with the better price. Then - take the profits you just made and use them to buy more stuff and then sell that.

By filling another players buy orders - you are not making as much per sale as if you placed sell orders yourself - but - you are getting a rapid turn around on your investment. You can do that several times fairly quickly and hence rapidly build up your capital making smaller profits in minutes instead of larger profits in days.

Once you get your capital built up and can buy large amounts of things - then you may want to put up Sell Orders for them. People who are looking to buy large amounts of things - like it when you offer them in large amounts. That way - they don't have to go traipsing about EVE in their Freighter gathering a load and are often willing to pay a little more to save them the time of doing so.

Eventually, you might become a Station Trader who just sits in your station looking over the market - buying things that are under priced and re-selling them for more. The trick there - is recognizing what things will sell for - so that you know what is over priced, what is under priced and what is being sold at a good price by a competitor you're going to have to deal with if you chose to trade in the items they are selling.

Stuff that is under priced - you can just buy up (depending on the volume and how fast such items move) and then resell it at a higher price - right where it's at.

Stuff that is over priced - you can under bid and take the market from them. If they try to buy you out - as long as you are selling at a good price - you can just keep feeding them until they choke on what they've bought from you. Here you need to have a ready supply of items to sell them - so that buying you out - doesn't give them enough time to sell any of the things they bought from you - before you jump back in with another batch at a good bid.

Stuff that has a good price - you can do neither - so either avoid that item, sell it else where - or be prepared for a .01 ISK bidding war. Here - you want to buy some of the competitors goods - so you know who they are - then flag them in your address book so you know when they are on. If they come on - under bid you and then mess around for a while - you can wait until they log off - then put in your lower bid - and you will get all the sales instead of them until they log back in - at which point you do the same thing.


Experience will tell you what a "Good" bid is.

You don't want to try and gouge people to deeply - as they won't pay those prices ... or a least not a lot of them will. Charge to much - and they'll go look else where - and find what they want at a much better price. If you have a good price that most people will pay - then you can sell many more items and make more money than if you were gouging people.


Obviously - if you are under pricing your items - you are selling them for less than you could - at a good sustainable rate.


Be aware of the mineral value of things. Spread sheets help here as mineral values change. If you can make more by recycling an item and selling the minerals - then you can do that - but - you need good skills to do that - and you need to keep in touch with the prices of the minerals you're going to get from recycling - not what it took to build the thing.





Things to look out for are when building capital through filling buy orders:

1) Is there more than one buy order you're going to be able to fill at a profit on what you're paying for your goods? If not - you could buy a bunch of stuff - jump back to where the guys buy order was - and find that someone else has filled it. If there isn't another buy order that you can sell your stuff to - you can't turn it around and will be stuck with that inventory until you can sell it - or have to sell it at a loss to recover some of your capital. Basically - have a Plan B as to how you're going to deal with what you are buying - before you buy it.

2) There may not be any such deals for any specific item ... say Veldspar ... so you may have to look at other items.

3) When you see deals like this - you need to jump on them right away as you're not the only one doing this.

4) Don't invest everything you've got in anything. Always keep a reserve.

5) Warp to Zero at the gates.

6) Stay out of Lo Sec if you are a new trader. When you Set Destination - look at the colors of the little dots representing your route - if any of them are orange or red - change your route or give up on the idea. Once you're a veteran - then you can go down to Lo Sec if you want - just make sure you've prepared yourself before doing so to cope with what's down there.




Again - the advantage of raising your capital this way - is that you're learning about trading while you're doing it.

Its the same thing with mining or mission running.

You don't really want to mine to fund mission running - or run missions to fund mining. At different levels - you may well be able to make more money doing one than the other - but you're learning nothing about your intended activity while doing so - and experience counts for a lot.

.
Jenn Makanen
#14 - 2011-11-11 14:12:37 UTC
Toshiro GreyHawk wrote:
Big wall o'text
.



Only thing to be careful with moving high volume, low margin stuff, is to be careful of the fees/taxs.

Fees aren't important with the example above, as it's going to a buy order. but you'll be losing money on tax, unless you have the standings/skills to reduce it. Just take it into account, when working out your margin.
C C P Alliance
#15 - 2011-11-11 17:26:20 UTC
Hello Emkayu Goffish,

Thank you for your interesting guide. I am sure that the Community can help you with some good hits to improve it even further.

As you already pointed out, the start up capital is the crucial point. If you can gain 3% profit on your wallet per week, then it is a nice amount if have 100 bil in the wallet. But if you own only 1 mil, then it is not that much.

Probably a quick way to earn some money is by learning how to salvage and then work together with some level 4 mission runners to salvage their missions.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

#16 - 2011-11-11 18:08:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
One of our new recruits has found a nice way of making money from mining, that is worth sharing.

Take a hauler, fly to a busy belt, take the stuff from the can, sell it.

If some mean nasty person then tries to shoot him, he ends up dead, and the mean nasty person's modules become part of the bounty. But most don't try.

He usually earns about 5-10mil per system. Given he can only fly a hauler and a frigate, it's good ISK for his skills :D

What am I actually saying?
Being creative is always going to work better for you than earning a "wage" in a game like Eve. Let the other clowns extract the ore..... Let the other guys make the wrecks... Let the other guys put ISK in their wallet for you to remove ;)

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Gallente Federation
#17 - 2011-11-11 19:17:43 UTC
You are one month into the game and writing a blog that's titled "How to make billions"?

I like your spirit :)

well, except for the mining part, of course. Don't mine, that's what we traders have our people for. ;)

My siren's name is Brick and she is the prettiest.

#18 - 2011-11-12 07:25:04 UTC
It's always nice to see players willing to take time to help players, but you should probably learn more of the game before writing guides.

One of the biggest issues with new players is SP. So trading, mining, mission running, salvaging all will net you low isk if you try to do it all. Someone once said, (Mark Twain?) You can do anything you want but you can't do everything. I for instance am an Alt which is going to be specialized in Industry and trade. Less than a month old I already out-mine my main (who I trade various paths with) simply because I specialized my training to do just that. Basically what I am saying is if you did just one thing you will make isk faster than if you tried to do all things. On the flip side if you do all things you might find what you like to do and be better able to pick a path. Trading, I believe anyways, will net you the most isk, however only if you are a trader. You cannot Causley trade and expect windfalls while you mission run, though some trading tactics while slightly increase your gains. Same goes for all paths really without large amounts of SP gained over years of playing, whatever you pick to do will be your big isk maker and any other side ventures will just waste your time training and isk missed out while you dabbled in other isk schemes. (I speak only of gaining the most isk, if you like to do other things for a change of pass, or to help friends, or simply for fun don’t let your isk/hour be a factor its just a game and the money is fake.)

Also I mine while I mission run with my main. To make mining profitable it takes a bit of isk. Not large amounts by older player’s standards but by newer players, especially if you are mining in a frigate for isk, the amounts can seem overwhelming. They do have Frigates/cruisers and the like out there with mining bonuses and multiple turret points but those net little isk compared to their cost including fitting. If you want to mine than Mining barges are the way to go, you will note that not a single combat ship skill is required in flying miners minus a few you should do for additional defense but not required yo get you into belts mining as they would be for moving up to a lv 2 mission. Drones to lv2-3 and combat drones at 1 is enough to pop the rates at least 0.7+ belts.

BTW don’t knock mining. It is slow and requires little player input beyond launch drones, target rocks, move closer if necessary and activate miner, than wait. What I have not seen mentioned is you can buy, sell, compare prices, create contracts, run manufacturing orders ect ect all from space while mining!!! So if you are going to be going through the market anyways why sit in a station when you can be in a miner and bringing back isk. I use whatever the teir 2 miner is as it is 15 days for mining barge 5 and the rock study science one that starts with and A. Will cargo extenders (both mods and rigs) you only need hull upgrades to lv 2 to use tec 2 extenders, I make about 1/2 a mil a hull. So if you are trading hope in a miner and make some isk while you sit around looking through the market!
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