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[Rubicon 1.3] T1 Frigate and Cruiser Balance Pass

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C C P Alliance
#1 - 2014-02-26 11:31:08 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Hello everyone! Today I'm bringing you a set of tweaks to some T1 frigates and cruisers that we are planning to release in Rubicon 1.3. Nothing that revolutionizes the core roles of the ships, but hopefully these changes will go a small way to further increasing the number of good options when flying these accessible ships.

I'll give some blurbs for each set of ships, but one thing you'll see throughout these changes is a slight shift for the mass/speed pattern surrounding some Amarrian ships. We're trying something new with these ships and although the results are somewhat subtle and can be a bit hard for newer players to understand, we hope that it will be a pattern we can weave into the Amarrian lineup as a bit of a subtheme.
Basically it's taking ships that fit the heavy armor plated pattern of the Amarrian race and increasing their mass quite a bit, with significant buffs to speed and agility to compensate. The end result is ships that have similar align time as before, and similar speed with their prop mod on. The big advantage is that they will essentially feel less negative effects to their agility and speed from fitting plates. We'll see how people like it. Like I said it's a bit subtle but it should be a noticeable improvement if you know what to look for.
The important thing to remember with the mass additions to the Amarrian ships is that thanks to the counterbalancing adjustments to agility and base speed, the change will result in a slight buff for most normal usage.


Combat Frigs:
Couple of changes here. The Punisher is getting the new Amarrian high mass pattern, as well as some small buffs to cap recharge and fitting. The Kestrel will be getting a mobility buff. The Breacher is seeing its missile damage bonus changed into RoF (which means higher dps) and getting some more speed at the cost of agility. The Rifter is getting a very significant bonus change, swapping its old SPT tracking bonus (which was/is extremely common among minmatar frigates) for a 10% falloff bonus that will give it much improved projection with both autocannons and artillery.

PUNISHER:
+2 PWG
+3 CPU
-20s Cap Recharge Time
+25 m/s velocity
+143000 mass
-0.45 inertia
+1 sensor strength

KESTREL:
+5 m/s velocity
-50000 mass

RIFTER:
Removed +7.5% Small Projectile Turret tracking bonus
Added +10% Small Projectile Turret falloff bonus
+10 m/s velocity
+0.01 inertia

BREACHER:
Removed +5% missile damage bonus
Added -5% missile RoF bonus
+2 PWG
+10 m/s velocity
+0.02 inertia

Support Frigates:
Besides the Inquisitor getting the high mass high speed treatment, we're also making a few changes to this class as a whole. We're adding more base cap (but slowing down cap recharge rates to compensate) and adding more base speed to the whole class (with lower agility to compensate). Part of the original idea behind these ships was to make their downside a fairly low agility, to reward skilled piloting. These changes help push them farther in that direction.

INQUISITOR:
+50 Capacitor
+25s Cap Recharge Time
+95 m/s velocity
-0.05 inertia
+160000 mass

BANTAM:
+30 Capacitor
+15s Cap Recharge Time
+70 m/s velocity
+0.35 inertia

NAVITAS:
+35 Capacitor
+17.5s Cap Recharge Time
+80 m/s velocity
+0.35 inertia

BURST:
+30 Capacitor
+15s Cap Recharge Time
+80 m/s velocity
+0.35 inertia


Cruisers:
The Augoror, Maller and Omen are getting the Amarr increased mass increased speed treatment, and there are also several other minor tweaks here and there.

AUGOROR:
+25 m/s velocity
-0.12 inertia
+2140000 mass

OSPREY:
+10 m/s
+0.02 inertia
-130000 mass

MALLER:
+10 m/s velocity
-0.044 inertia
+1100000 mass

MOA:
+200 shields
-100 hull
+50 capacitor
+15s cap recharge time
-220000 mass

VEXOR:
-10 m/s velocity
+0.03 inertia
-210000 mass

OMEN:
+25 m/s velocity
-0.08 inertia
+1950000 mass

CARACAL:
+0.01 inertia

Thanks for reading, and we look forward to your feedback.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

WE FORM V0LTA
#2 - 2014-02-26 11:38:06 UTC
I'm honestly not a fan of the Breacher ROF change. Having the damage bonus not be type-specific meant it was one of the few ships that could actually use the missile advantage of selectable damage, and was very versatile. I really enjoyed flying the Breacher during the Stay Frosty Frigate FFA and used this to great effect.

Changing this to a ROF bonus feels like a nerf, since it means you're doing less damage between reloads and you're running out of ammo faster.
Northern Coalition.
#3 - 2014-02-26 11:38:23 UTC
why do the amarr get the plate changes ? i always thought that the gallente were the closerange brawlers
#4 - 2014-02-26 11:40:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Swiftstrike1
Changing the SPT tracking bonus on the Rifter to Falloff bonus will make a lot of people very happy. +1

The new amarr sub theme is interesting. I'm not sure how successful it will be in the frigate department since most of those use local armor reps, not plates. It should be a nice little buff for the cruisers though Pirate

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.

Villore Accords
#5 - 2014-02-26 11:43:09 UTC
Yum, those Moas look nice.

I write http://stabbedup.blogspot.co.uk/

I post on reddit as /u/callduron.

#6 - 2014-02-26 11:45:14 UTC
Ya, that Rifter change is bloody brilliant. Thank you!
C C P Alliance
#7 - 2014-02-26 11:50:08 UTC
Ransu Asanari wrote:
I'm honestly not a fan of the Breacher ROF change. Having the damage bonus not be type-specific meant it was one of the few ships that could actually use the missile advantage of selectable damage, and was very versatile. I really enjoyed flying the Breacher during the Stay Frosty Frigate FFA and used this to great effect.

Changing this to a ROF bonus feels like a nerf, since it means you're doing less damage between reloads and you're running out of ammo faster.


I think you'll find that the increase in dps will be significant enough to more than balance out the more common reloads.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

RvB - RED Federation
#8 - 2014-02-26 11:50:09 UTC
Frig logies already have cruiser aligning speed, I don't think it needs to be any worse, especially considering their short repair range.

I like the change to the rifter, but it could probably use a bit more love.

The mobility change to amarr ships seems like a good idea, I just hope that the actual numbers are adjusted so that there are no drawbacks.

One thing this update seems to be missing is replacing the activation bonus on Tormentor with something useful. That bonus is very weak compared to virtually any other one.
#9 - 2014-02-26 11:56:01 UTC
Oh more speedy frigates!
and I'll mourn for the poor Vexor and Caracal...Straight
Neo-Bushido Movement
#10 - 2014-02-26 12:00:01 UTC
Ransu Asanari wrote:
I'm honestly not a fan of the Breacher ROF change. Having the damage bonus not be type-specific meant it was one of the few ships that could actually use the missile advantage of selectable damage, and was very versatile. I really enjoyed flying the Breacher during the Stay Frosty Frigate FFA and used this to great effect.

Changing this to a ROF bonus feels like a nerf, since it means you're doing less damage between reloads and you're running out of ammo faster.



Actually this is deffo a buff, I'd even go so far as saying the rocket breacher might be slightly to strong now, it could already do very respectable dps now it' ll do even more.

HYDRA RELOADED
#11 - 2014-02-26 12:00:07 UTC
How will the changes affect the Vexor? Will it be the opposite of what you are doing with amarr ships, thus making plates slow it down furthere?

❤️️💛💚💙💜

Shadow Cartel
#12 - 2014-02-26 12:00:31 UTC
fix light missiles pls. frigates won't stop being really dumb until you do this.

give logistics frigates normal speed and agility. it really sucks when I'm taking out a frigate gang, and people respond by camping a gate and killing our logistics because they're all totally awful (please fix crimewatch also so that people cannot engage outlaws without being shot back). it's strange because all the larger logistics ships get stupidly powerful stats, and then you guys release the frigate logis and are suddenly very careful and don't want them to be too useful or anything.

have a look at rockets, they have to reload far too often, and you end up spending a fair amount on ammo. just like torps.

the negative impact from armour tanking has really mostly always been from armour rigs and their ridiculous penalty.

and finally, nothing for attack frigates? my atron has a falloff bonus instead of a tracking bonus. I don't really benefit very much from a falloff bonus when using railguns, and I don't benefit when using blasters very much, because it's usually stuck with the lowest tier blasters available. but also, when brawling with it, it survives by doing a very fast, close orbit of the target. even electron blasters cannot really hit anything when doing that. also, my executioner is just a bad atron.
The Initiative.
#13 - 2014-02-26 12:09:34 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Support Frigates:
Besides the Inquisitor getting the high mass high speed treatment, we're also making a few changes to this class as a whole. We're adding more base cap (but slowing down cap recharge rates to compensate) and adding more base speed to the whole class (with lower agility to compensate). Part of the original idea behind these ships was to make their downside a fairly low agility, to reward skilled piloting. These changes help push them farther in that direction.

INQUISITOR:
+50 Capacitor
+25000 Cap Recharge Time
+95 m/s velocity
-0.05 inertia
+160000 mass

BANTAM:
+30 Capacitor
+15000 Cap Recharge Time
+70 m/s velocity
+0.35 inertia

NAVITAS:
+35 Capacitor
+17500 Cap Recharge Time
+75 m/s velocity
+0.35 inertia

BURST:
+30 Capacitor
+15000 Cap Recharge Time
+80 m/s velocity
+0.35 inertia


What does "Cap Recharge Time" mean?
#14 - 2014-02-26 12:12:07 UTC
CARACAL:
+0.01 inertia

huh ? just to get it to list ?Big smile

Bugs are opportunities to cause unprecedented amounts of destruction. --Zorgn ♡♡♡

Shadow Cartel
#15 - 2014-02-26 12:12:38 UTC
Loyalty Points wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Support Frigates:
Besides the Inquisitor getting the high mass high speed treatment, we're also making a few changes to this class as a whole. We're adding more base cap (but slowing down cap recharge rates to compensate) and adding more base speed to the whole class (with lower agility to compensate). Part of the original idea behind these ships was to make their downside a fairly low agility, to reward skilled piloting. These changes help push them farther in that direction.

INQUISITOR:
+50 Capacitor
+25000 Cap Recharge Time
+95 m/s velocity
-0.05 inertia
+160000 mass

BANTAM:
+30 Capacitor
+15000 Cap Recharge Time
+70 m/s velocity
+0.35 inertia

NAVITAS:
+35 Capacitor
+17500 Cap Recharge Time
+75 m/s velocity
+0.35 inertia

BURST:
+30 Capacitor
+15000 Cap Recharge Time
+80 m/s velocity
+0.35 inertia


What does "Cap Recharge Time" mean?


time to completely fill the capacitor. those numbers are very wrong, fyi.
#16 - 2014-02-26 12:16:44 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Loyalty Points wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Support Frigates:
Besides the Inquisitor getting the high mass high speed treatment, we're also making a few changes to this class as a whole. We're adding more base cap (but slowing down cap recharge rates to compensate) and adding more base speed to the whole class (with lower agility to compensate). Part of the original idea behind these ships was to make their downside a fairly low agility, to reward skilled piloting. These changes help push them farther in that direction.

INQUISITOR:
+50 Capacitor
+25000 Cap Recharge Time
+95 m/s velocity
-0.05 inertia
+160000 mass

BANTAM:
+30 Capacitor
+15000 Cap Recharge Time
+70 m/s velocity
+0.35 inertia

NAVITAS:
+35 Capacitor
+17500 Cap Recharge Time
+75 m/s velocity
+0.35 inertia

BURST:
+30 Capacitor
+15000 Cap Recharge Time
+80 m/s velocity
+0.35 inertia


What does "Cap Recharge Time" mean?


time to completely fill the capacitor. those numbers are very wrong, fyi.


Probably just in milliseconds, so divide by 1000
Team Amarrica
#17 - 2014-02-26 12:17:56 UTC
The punisher needed a bit more grid. I'm glad to see it get it. I like the Rifter change. It will definitely need a web now- shield Rifter is dead. Shrug.
Pandemic Legion
#18 - 2014-02-26 12:18:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayallah
The Fallof bunus on the rifter is amazing! Fix all the Minmatar ships!

Also looking forward to Punisher fitting. Still not sure how the cruiser changes will play out but I am liking the new direction!

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

The Initiative.
#19 - 2014-02-26 12:20:18 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Ransu Asanari wrote:
I'm honestly not a fan of the Breacher ROF change. Having the damage bonus not be type-specific meant it was one of the few ships that could actually use the missile advantage of selectable damage, and was very versatile. I really enjoyed flying the Breacher during the Stay Frosty Frigate FFA and used this to great effect.

Changing this to a ROF bonus feels like a nerf, since it means you're doing less damage between reloads and you're running out of ammo faster.


I think you'll find that the increase in dps will be significant enough to more than balance out the more common reloads.


The DPS increase is tiny: 105.26% vs 105.00%

I don't think that 0.26% extra damage over time is going to swing any fights. What is relevent is that the Breacher will get it's extra volley in more often.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

#20 - 2014-02-26 12:22:17 UTC
+15000 cap recharge time?? So the Batman will recharge in 15190 s??
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