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[Phoebe] Value increase for low-end blue loot

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#41 - 2014-10-31 05:11:43 UTC
Leany Umangiar wrote:
Can't wait for all the influx of daytrippers thinking that w-space is a easy ISK Twisted

Dont forget your d-scan Blink



I'm more that happy to sell DSCAN T2s.
#42 - 2014-10-31 05:13:55 UTC
Niskin wrote:
I was already preparing to move into a low class WH in the next week or two, so this is great timing. I'll be able to cover the cost of POS fuel much quicker and the extra ISK can go towards ship replacements or better hulls.



Hi,

If you need an escort while you setup your pos or need help getting ships in let me know the K entrance and time and I'll get someone over to help you in.

But if you do need some guidance on wormholes, POS setups etc message me in game.
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2014-10-31 09:35:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Fluffi Flaffi
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Can you make a billion isk / hour running sleeper escallations? - yes.


Now all the trolls and noobs just read this and stopped. Roll

Serendipity and Thomas, you both are somehow right I tink.
Yes a significant share left (quite sure about that) because of the changes sucked and because risk was getting to hi. The remaining share left because CCP i.e. Fozzie just didn't gave any feedback and left us alone. I personally shut down some POSs due to that reason as well.

And I agree. The possible, but very limited (!) ISK increase will not bring the old ones back into low-class wormholes, but maybe some new visitors, who may settle.

It sounds like a lot of ISK, bu tlike Serendipity wrote in one of his Posts above: The number of available anoms is limited. It's not like Null where you have more anoms and signatures than you often can do (depending on size of your corp). It's the opposite. Taking the nubmer of 2 new anoms per day (which from my experience is realistic in low-class wormholes) we are talking about an possible extra of 10-15M ISK / day in many cases as low-class wormholes often have statics to K-Space, so you can not "roll" your static to farm it. That's it. Only C2 may be viable for this, but C2 has more incoming wormholes as well since Hyperion (i.e. as a small (1-5man) corp you will not run anoms / gravimetrics when you expect intruders) and rolling your C1 or C2 statics is a pain in the ass, especially C1 statics. It's not like higher class wormholes, where you jump 1-2 times and the static is down. And to roll C2 statics much faster is not worth the effort of haveing the number of People in your wormhole to do so, because you can not feed them.

I could give some furhter reasons / explainations, but that shouldn't be necessary.

So please don't freak out because of just some ISK! It will not change much! That's why they have to increase the buy orders so much, because even that "big" step is just a very small one in reality.
WE FORM V0LTA
#44 - 2014-10-31 10:02:30 UTC
Thomas Hurt wrote:
lmao no one left WHs because rolling holes is too hard. Even if they did, Higgs rigs will now put battleship roundtrips at 500m kg. If a C5 corp can't get 6 people together in battleships to roll their static, I don't know what to say.


If your rolling a C5 with only battleships then you are dumb. you need two guys to roll a C5 connection (assuming average mass on the hole)

The issue is the time needed to roll a hole (its not much more than before but its enough to make you wonder why your doing it) then the time needed to scan the chain which now, thanks to Hyperion, contains far more empty WH's than ever before. Quite frankly it feels like a job as opposed to a game.

Our corp has gotten to the point where we are looking for K-space connections just to go PvPing over looking for WH entities.

So Much Space

#45 - 2014-10-31 11:39:27 UTC
Faren Shalni wrote:
Thomas Hurt wrote:
lmao no one left WHs because rolling holes is too hard. Even if they did, Higgs rigs will now put battleship roundtrips at 500m kg. If a C5 corp can't get 6 people together in battleships to roll their static, I don't know what to say.


If your rolling a C5 with only battleships then you are dumb. you need two guys to roll a C5 connection (assuming average mass on the hole)

The issue is the time needed to roll a hole (its not much more than before but its enough to make you wonder why your doing it) then the time needed to scan the chain which now, thanks to Hyperion, contains far more empty WH's than ever before. Quite frankly it feels like a job as opposed to a game.

Our corp has gotten to the point where we are looking for K-space connections just to go PvPing over looking for WH entities.


Good news! They will be introducing a rig into the game to help you! Now that they have tripled the time to roll a wh w/ the mas/range change they are giving you the ability to re-approach the wh at 25% of your normal speed. I'm no math expert but I think 3 X 4 = 12, so it will take roughly 12 times as long to get back to the wh w/ this wonderful new rig.

I'm sure the fanboys will point out you are virtually immune to bumping (giggle) and that you can simply and quickly warp away and back and close the wh in record time. You just have to assume no one uncloaks and puts up a bubble at any time during the whole evolution.

OMG... I just solved the mass/range thing.... stay with me on this.... When jumping through wh the distance isn't far enough. If you came out 200km off the wh it would be perfect. You could simply warp back immediately and close the wh. Jump mechanics aren't really about having interesting pvp on wh anymore, so let's stretch this jump range out to a reasonable distance and get that wh rolled.
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2014-10-31 11:54:33 UTC
Fluffi Flaffi wrote:
It sounds like a lot of ISK, bu tlike Serendipity wrote in one of his Posts above: The number of available anoms is limited. It's not like Null where you have more anoms and signatures than you often can do (depending on size of your corp). It's the opposite. Taking the nubmer of 2 new anoms per day (which from my experience is realistic in low-class wormholes) we are talking about an possible extra of 10-15M ISK / day in many cases as low-class wormholes often have statics to K-Space, so you can not "roll" your static to farm it. That's it. Only C2 may be viable for this, but C2 has more incoming wormholes as well since Hyperion (i.e. as a small (1-5man) corp you will not run anoms / gravimetrics when you expect intruders) and rolling your C1 or C2 statics is a pain in the ass, especially C1 statics. It's not like higher class wormholes, where you jump 1-2 times and the static is down. And to roll C2 statics much faster is not worth the effort of haveing the number of People in your wormhole to do so, because you can not feed them.

I could give some furhter reasons / explainations, but that shouldn't be necessary.

So please don't freak out because of just some ISK! It will not change much! That's why they have to increase the buy orders so much, because even that "big" step is just a very small one in reality.


Can't believe you can whine so much when our income just got a major buff, which is also exactly what the community has been asking for.

C4 and C2 are both at the receiving end of this, and practically it means that both these dual static paradises (in my eperience the most populated w-space) are even better capable of supporting active corporations and alliances.

This is a really ******* awesome move from CCP and once people realize that low-class wormholes will once again be better than hisec farming, we will indeed see a new influx of people, both new and returning players.

If you find an empty C4 with C4 and C2 statics, grab it while you can Cool

Amarr Empire
#47 - 2014-10-31 12:08:10 UTC
@King Fu Hostile: Wormhole farming is already today much better than HiSec farming if you are an active corp and if you know how to do it the right way. Roll It's not a Problem at all to get more than 100M ISK / hour doesn't matter which wormhole you live in, so the C4 with C2 and C4 statics are already nowaday a dream if you are an active (!) corp with enough members. Anything else I have explained (not whined!) above.

We will see who was right with his assumption and I honestly hope it will be you! I have nothing against more Population. I would love to Exchange todays >90% time wormhole pve content for pvp content!

I am not whining, just trying to get some guys like you back down to earth, who do not look on the numbers / reality and just see a gross increase and scream like little fanboys, but when it comes to the net increase you have to realise it is not a "major buff". Go check the figures I posted above!

It is not, that I am not welcoming this change, BIUT this is defenitely NOT a ******* awesome move from CCP, this is just a CONFESSION!!!
Illusion of Solitude
#48 - 2014-10-31 17:51:49 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
There are a whole raft if improvements coming in phoebe with what is looking like part of an overall rebalance and re evaluation of wormhole incomes. Each of these in isolation look nice but underwhelming if you choose to look at it that way, but taken as a whole, combine to make a significant possibility of regenerating wormhole space better than it has been for a long time, or even ever.
Hyperion was a massive shock to the system, all stick and no carrot, and wormhole life was already fragile before it's arrival. It felt so unfair.

As it turns out, It may mostly have been a blessing in disguise, as it appears that they suddenly realised that assumptions they had were significantly different to the life we know.

Corbexx was invaluable, his efforts both in clearly submitting the truth, combined with the mass of work involved in providing hard data, has opened their eyes to the truth, and it is very clear that they are proceeding from this new viewpoint.

We should welcome all their new efforts, and appreciate just how this will bring new life and vitality, we have all witnessed holes emptying, and people leaving, that is really sad, but there is the opportunity for those who stayed to be able to fund their existance within wormhole space, and replace their losses from combat, without having to do kS missions/anoms/incursions.

They are not there yet, but it seems they realise that, and the improvements, all little, are coming thick and fast, and are all adding up. Whilst we need sufficient income to live, It is not all about isk per hour, we mainly want something to do, particuarly when it is quiet, or off peak timezone for any corp.

I look forward to the day when one can see more life and vitality in wormhole space, a balance of hunters and those who choose other paths,and those that combine them all. something for everyone, individual, small and large group, always something else to do and discover.

To CCP we may be loud sometimes, usually you hardly know we exist because we are so quiet, but Hyperion really hurt, and we cried out in pain and sometimes anger, please don't let that put your teams off changing wormholes for the better, be brave, but please consider us in the overall scheme of things, it is our home, as is EVE and we place great value on both.

And we appreciate your latest efforts, please keep them up.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

#49 - 2014-10-31 18:18:58 UTC
Brutus Crendraven wrote:
Niskin wrote:
I was already preparing to move into a low class WH in the next week or two, so this is great timing. I'll be able to cover the cost of POS fuel much quicker and the extra ISK can go towards ship replacements or better hulls.



Hi,

If you need an escort while you setup your pos or need help getting ships in let me know the K entrance and time and I'll get someone over to help you in.

But if you do need some guidance on wormholes, POS setups etc message me in game.


Thanks Brutus. I won't know the time ahead of time, as it will just be whatever night I find an empty C2 and can spend the hour or so setting up the POS and moving things in. I appreciate the offer though, and will keep you in mind if I have questions.

It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog

Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.

-MooMooDachshundCow

Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2014-10-31 18:24:23 UTC  |  Edited by: King Fu Hostile
Fluffi Flaffi wrote:

I am not whining, just trying to get some guys like you back down to earth, who do not look on the numbers / reality and just see a gross increase and scream like little fanboys, but when it comes to the net increase you have to realise it is not a "major buff". Go check the figures I posted above!



Fanboy? Screaming? Dude, here's a little math task for you:

I ran three C4 anoms today, 1hr 1 minute. One Barracks, two Command Posts. Total 174 units of Neural Network Analyzers and 174 Sleeper Data Libraries. Now calculate how much my net ISK income increases with Phoebe.

How do you find these net numbers from reality?

I could have ran the rest three Command Posts and the lesser sites, but that would ruin your gross theory. I could have also rolled a new hole to farm, but you seem to think that risk-averseness is a game mechanic, and not a mental condition. And besides they said on the forums that rolling holes is impossible now, so lets just leave it at that and say that +80mil/hr isn't an awesome move and will not change anything, if it makes you happy.

(hint, it is actually awesome)

(net)
Sleeper Social Club
#51 - 2014-10-31 21:58:21 UTC
While I really love that the change will most likely help low-class WH inhabitants and daytrippers, I feel that doing it via NPC buy orders should be the last resort. There shoud be some more creative and interactive way (I know they are not mutually exclusive). If anything I wish we could get rid of NPC buy orders for blue loot completely and have everything in wspace derive value from player driven market.
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2014-10-31 22:33:51 UTC
Axloth Okiah wrote:
While I really love that the change will most likely help low-class WH inhabitants and daytrippers, I feel that doing it via NPC buy orders should be the last resort. There shoud be some more creative and interactive way (I know they are not mutually exclusive). If anything I wish we could get rid of NPC buy orders for blue loot completely and have everything in wspace derive value from player driven market.


While I agree with you, you realize that blue loot is basically the bounties of WH space right? We just have to bring them to highsec instead of receiving money directly.

There is an idea of a Gay Pornstar; some kind of abstraction. But there is no real me: only an entity, something illusory. And though I can hide my cold gaze, and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable... I simply am not there.

#53 - 2014-11-02 01:21:01 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. This is the out of character counterpart to the in-character news report posted here.

In-character, CONCORD has been troubled by the reports that capsuleers have been collecting Sleeper Blue Loot for their own purposes, especially that capsuleers attempted to compete with the four empires in the recent research race. They would much prefer that all Capsuleers pass their Blue Loot on to the qualified authorities instead of worrying their pretty little heads by investigating these items themselves.
As such, CONCORD has been in discussion with all the corporations that are officially licensed to purchase Blue Loot, and they are going to increase their payments for Neural Network Analyzers and Sleeper Data Libraries to encourage Capsuleers to do the right thing and get their loot to their local authorized collection agency.


Out of character, this means that as of Phoebe on November 4th, NPC buy orders for Neural Network Analyzers will pay out 200,000 isk and Sleeper Data Libraries will be purchased for 500,000 isk. This should provide a very significant effect on income in the lower class wormholes without having a very large percentage increase in the income of higher class wormholes.



This is a good start, thank you ccp.
#54 - 2014-11-02 07:39:33 UTC
Niskin wrote:
Brutus Crendraven wrote:
Niskin wrote:
I was already preparing to move into a low class WH in the next week or two, so this is great timing. I'll be able to cover the cost of POS fuel much quicker and the extra ISK can go towards ship replacements or better hulls.



Hi,

If you need an escort while you setup your pos or need help getting ships in let me know the K entrance and time and I'll get someone over to help you in.

But if you do need some guidance on wormholes, POS setups etc message me in game.


Thanks Brutus. I won't know the time ahead of time, as it will just be whatever night I find an empty C2 and can spend the hour or so setting up the POS and moving things in. I appreciate the offer though, and will keep you in mind if I have questions.


Rather plan for several hours. Setting up the pos, flying in fuel, ships, alts, ammunition takes several round trips. Don't forget that the entrance to your new home is not necessarily in your starting system.
#55 - 2014-11-02 18:21:26 UTC
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Don't wormholers make enough already? I thought they pulled in like a billion per person per hour.

Honestly, I would like to see the sleeper components be used to build T3s rather then NPC sell orders.

Edit: So this is mainly for the smaller wormholes? I don't know enough of wormhole life - only that I have been told we could make billions daily with fairly low risk.

(1) I don't know enough of wormhole life... well, that's obvious.
(2) I have been told we could make billions daily with fairly low risk. Again, yer ignorance is showing.

I have lived in holes for almost 4 years, ok? We do NOT make a bil ISK per hour per player... cripes what a thought, we CAN however make a few bil, IN FLEET, IN CAPITOLS and T3s, in C5 and C6s, in a few hours... which is 'shared' across all players. Is it good ISK? Hell yes, is it SAFE ISK? OH HELLS no!

(1) Sleepers in C5 & 6 especially are HARD bro... you almost need capitols to run them, or at least very high skilled players in expensive ships with LOTS of hi skilled logi... and
(2) it's Anoikis... NO LOCAL... getting hot dropped in sites is a permanent possibility... and an ugly and damned costly one... I've been on both sides of that equation.... and
(3) one other thing you ignorance missed... In Anoikis, we live in POSes... POSes need FUEL... and one part of fuel can ONLY be acquired in Empire and therefor has to be shipped in with all attendant cost and risks... AND POSes are, unlike Empire stations, not INVULNERABLE... so ALL of our stuff is permanently at risk, 23/7/365... Again, a very expensive equation I have been on both sides of.

So I care not for what YOU think our Lewt and Salvage 'should' be used for...

One should not speak of that which one does not understand... It opens one up to ridicule.

TurAmarth ElRandir Anoikis Merc, Salvager, Logibro and Unrepentant Blogger Fly Wreckless and see you in the Sky =/|)= http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/

#56 - 2014-11-02 21:15:52 UTC
TurAmarth ElRandir wrote:


I have lived in holes for almost 4 years, ok? We do NOT make a bil ISK per hour per player...


you missed something over the past 4 years then
Trigger Warnings
#57 - 2014-11-02 23:22:26 UTC
I think the recent changes to blue poo are good for C1-2-3 residents, and tangentially C4's as well to a lesser degree.

Right now, I estimate that about 40% of C2's are empty. This means we regularly run across systems with +20 sites in our C2 static. Right now we don't run them (well, prior to this being announced) and certainly not in an organised fashion. however, I estimate I could make about 50-65M an hour soloing C2 sites when the blue poo buff comes through. Or, to clarify, i am already making 50-65M an hour, i just haven't sold the poo yet.

This is good for me, my corp, my corpies and new recruits into corp who are 2M SP to 20M SP toons. They sudddenly, automagically, have the ability to generate reasonable incomes in one of our statics. it's risky, but so what? While someone is hunting, others idle their alts, and a couple of guys farm.

Then we still have the C4 static to farm solo marauderville as well, for the "elite" guys with a lot more skills and a lot more ISK. Previous to this buff, our new bros were sort of stuck - a lucky few would farm the C4's and everyone else would get discouraged even thinking about wasting time doing the C2's.

Secondly, do not forget thaat the changes to hull and subsystem consumption of sleeper salvage (MNR's especially) will have an impact on income, at least in the short term. MNR's jumped as high as 9M ISk this week as a supply squeeze hit, and manufacturers began banging out their 9currently) cheaper than pphoebe BPC's of the subs.

Post Phoebe, the consumption increases will maintain prices higher than before.

Thirdly, we have T3 Destroyers coming (soon tm). Stockpiling for those is already underway, and speculation that llesser-used components will be used, blah blah blah.

All three of these things are good for low-end wormholes. But then, again, you have the nullsec relic and data coming to C1-2-3 space as well. Plenty of cloaky, stabbed herons will be hammering these sites for ISK, and dying to ppeople who can lock them down.

I think that if CCP Fozzie had a brain he would have done Hyperion as a mixture of carrot and stick. Instead we got beaten down with hyperion, and now the abusive spouse is promising he's changed and is slinging us roses and chocolates to get us back.
#58 - 2014-11-03 09:11:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Terrorfrodo
Trinkets friend wrote:
I think that if CCP Fozzie had a brain he would have done Hyperion as a mixture of carrot and stick. Instead we got beaten down with hyperion, and now the abusive spouse is promising he's changed and is slinging us roses and chocolates to get us back.


Maybe that wasn't so bad in the end. All those people who left wspace on day 1 or even before Hyperion, without at least trying, obviously were already burnt out and just waiting for a tiny push to get out. No other way to explain such an exodus triggered by pretty minor actual changes to the game.

Scaring some of the old blood out of wspace may have freed up space for new people who would otherwise have had difficulties to find unoccupied systems. Even a very inactive corp is difficult to remove from low-class space, especially for newer players.

Btw, for C4 the buff is also pretty significant. Even just accounting for blue loot, site yield rises more than 30% for two of the anoms and even 46% for the command posts. Terminus even +55% but still the crappiest site. And on top of that we will get the increases in salvage prices. Add to that the new sites coming to wspace and I expect a c4 will have at least a +50% income increase without using the statics.

As for ISK/hour, I easily ran slightly more than 3 anoms per hour solo, with the new values this should be close to 400m/hour. Pretty decent. (edit: But that is in a Magnetar so not very representative probably. I always forget that not all c4s are like this ^^ )

.

Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2014-11-03 09:17:40 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
however, I estimate I could make about 50-65M an hour soloing C2 sites when the blue poo buff comes through. Or, to clarify, i am already making 50-65M an hour, i just haven't sold the poo yet.


This may be valid for somebody in a Drake with up to 10M SP. If your skill improve and you use a different ship (which doesn't Need to be a faction-modded-T3!) you can get easily gain more than 100M ISK / hour from soloing C2 class wormholes. Not that bad I think. Max skilled and if you know how to do the each of the anoms this shifts more and more to 140-150M ISK / hour. Yes, before Phoebe Patch and with current MNR Prices! So I am not talking about 2010.

C1 is even better than C2, but I guess after the Phoebe it will be even with C2 more or less!

On my gravestone will be written: "Died because he used sarcasm in the wrong moment"

Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2014-11-03 09:40:06 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:

As for ISK/hour, I easily ran slightly more than 3 anoms per hour solo, with the new values this should be close to 400m/hour. Pretty decent.


I'm interested in techniques and fits that clear Barracks/Commands solo in 15min after the RR fix.

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