EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Operation Magic School Bus

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Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-12-15 22:34:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike Azariah
If you are in the career systems keep an eye on local. I drop in, now and again, and hand out free fitted frigates/destroyers amd even the occasional cruiser as appropriate to the location and age of pilot.

This initiative is sponsored by older players who have donate isk and materials to give the new players a hand up.

If you want to know more there is a mailing list OMSB

Click on mail, bottom left has 'join mailing list' click that then enter in

OMSB

easy as pi

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Shadow Cartel
#2 - 2014-12-15 22:44:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Eldwinn
Timezones these are planned? I need to pipebomb someone. Also, is this not an Events thread more than anything?
The-Culture
#3 - 2014-12-15 23:02:22 UTC
Eldwinn wrote:
Timezones these are planned? I need to pipebomb someone. Also, is this not an Events thread more than anything?

The brand newbros (I.e. trial ) can't post anywhere but here so this is appropriate.

+1 love it.

Will this be a regular thing?
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-12-16 00:48:30 UTC
Timezone is whenever I happen to be on, so it is not a set schedule I could apply to an event.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

#5 - 2015-02-05 19:08:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Ream
Bittervet checking in here.

I salute your intention to help noobs, that's excellent.

I have to challenge you on your space socialism, however.

Eve is a difficult game, which means that you get a sense of accomplishment when you achieve something - your first 1v1 win, your first billion in the market, and so on.

I remember a Merlin I used to fly, my first serious frigate, which was eventually very well fit and able to survive the static 1/10 and 2/10 plexes that dropped Worm blueprints and used to drop mods that are worth a fortune nowadays. This was an accomplishment, for me. Something I was able to be successful at, all by my self.

This is why I don't think socialist handouts to noobs are a good idea. It's better if they treasure their ships, at least in the beginning. It's better that they get a sense of accomplishment when they figure out how to fit the things. It's better if they think their ships matter, and take the time to figure out how to use EFT. It's better if they read up so they know wtf they're doing. It's better that they learn how to figure out how to fit a ship, instead of saving a fit someone hands them and not learning a thing.

You don't want to cater to the soft bigotry of low expectations; you want people to have to work, which means then they have accomplished something when they get it sorted.

--

Remember, Eve is about attitude as much as anything else. The tough love of explaining mistakes to noobs after you kill them is within the spirit of Eve. Handing out free frigates and saying "have fun kiddies" isn't, IMHO.

--

All that said, I acknowledge the learning cliff in Eve. I think Eve Uni and all the other efforts to explain the game are excellent. Frankly, you could probably do more good for noobs by showing up in local and typing "I'm a veteran player: AMA" - and having a file with links that explain various aspects of eve on hand, to cut and paste out of into local.
#6 - 2015-02-05 19:13:41 UTC
Major Ream wrote:
Bittervet checking in here.

I salute your intention to help noobs, that's excellent.

I have to challenge you on your space socialism, however.

Eve is a difficult game, which means that you get a sense of accomplishment when you achieve something - your first 1v1 win, your first billion in the market, and so on.

I remember a Merlin I used to fly, my first serious frigate, which was eventually very well fit and able to survive the static 1/10 and 2/10 plexes that dropped Worm blueprints and used to drop mods that are worth a fortune nowadays. This was an accomplishment, for me. Something I was able to be successful at, all by my self.

This is why I don't think socialist handouts to noobs are a good idea. It's better if they treasure their ships, at least in the beginning. It's better that they get a sense of accomplishment when they figure out how to fit the things. It's better if they think their ships matter, and take the time to figure out how to use EFT. It's better if they read up so they know wtf they're doing. It's better that they learn how to figure out how to fit a ship, instead of saving a fit someone hands them and not learning a thing.

You don't want to cater to the soft bigotry of low expectations; you want people to have to work, which means then they have accomplished something when they get it sorted.

--

Remember, Eve is about attitude as much as anything else. The tough love of explaining mistakes to noobs after you kill them is within the spirit of Eve. Handing out free frigates and saying "have fun kiddies" isn't, IMHO.

--

All that said, I acknowledge the learning cliff in Eve. I think Eve Uni and all the other efforts to explain the game are excellent. Frankly, you could probably do more good for noobs by showing up in local and typing "I'm a veteran player: AMA" - and having a file with links that explain various aspects of eve on hand, to cut and paste out of into local.


Ships are disposable tools. The sooner new players learn that the more they will enjoy Eve.

Let the newbies lose ships without having to worry about replacing them.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'

Brute Force Solutions
#7 - 2015-02-05 19:44:09 UTC
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
Major Ream wrote:
Bittervet checking in here.

I salute your intention to help noobs, that's excellent.

I have to challenge you on your space socialism, however.

Eve is a difficult game, which means that you get a sense of accomplishment when you achieve something - your first 1v1 win, your first billion in the market, and so on.

I remember a Merlin I used to fly, my first serious frigate, which was eventually very well fit and able to survive the static 1/10 and 2/10 plexes that dropped Worm blueprints and used to drop mods that are worth a fortune nowadays. This was an accomplishment, for me. Something I was able to be successful at, all by my self.

This is why I don't think socialist handouts to noobs are a good idea. It's better if they treasure their ships, at least in the beginning. It's better that they get a sense of accomplishment when they figure out how to fit the things. It's better if they think their ships matter, and take the time to figure out how to use EFT. It's better if they read up so they know wtf they're doing. It's better that they learn how to figure out how to fit a ship, instead of saving a fit someone hands them and not learning a thing.

You don't want to cater to the soft bigotry of low expectations; you want people to have to work, which means then they have accomplished something when they get it sorted.

--

Remember, Eve is about attitude as much as anything else. The tough love of explaining mistakes to noobs after you kill them is within the spirit of Eve. Handing out free frigates and saying "have fun kiddies" isn't, IMHO.

--

All that said, I acknowledge the learning cliff in Eve. I think Eve Uni and all the other efforts to explain the game are excellent. Frankly, you could probably do more good for noobs by showing up in local and typing "I'm a veteran player: AMA" - and having a file with links that explain various aspects of eve on hand, to cut and paste out of into local.


Ships are disposable tools. The sooner new players learn that the more they will enjoy Eve.

Let the newbies lose ships without having to worry about replacing them.


Ships also cost ISK and shouldnt be used as a disposable tool to those who do not buy plexes with real money every week. New players will learn to enjoy Eve if they understand the necessity to balance Risk with Reward. As much as its hilarious to see a New player in a 3 billion isk Rattlesnake doing missions in lowsec, if that person was in my corp, i would kill him myself.

Theres nothing wrong with noobs thinking that losing ships is part of the game, and that they shouldnt be angry for more than a second about losing a ship. But there is something wrong with noobs thinking that it doesnt matter if they lose their ships in any manner, stupid or not, because theyll just be provided a new one, with no cost to them.

I dont want a noob to be crying every time he loses a merlin. But I also dont want him to recklessly lose a talos or a Myrmidon. And the best way to do this is for them to earn their ships. If they know how hard it is to get a ship, they know to be careful about not losing it.
#8 - 2015-02-05 19:55:00 UTC
Awesome initiative! Hope it goes well! Good luck on your roams!

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-02-05 20:03:04 UTC
Major Ream wrote:
Bittervet checking in here.

I salute your intention to help noobs, that's excellent.

I have to challenge you on your space socialism, however.

Eve is a difficult game, which means that you get a sense of accomplishment when you achieve something - your first 1v1 win, your first billion in the market, and so on.




Thanks

In answer to the idea that handing out ships will ruin the game or the sense of loss? I take it you are also against Ship Replacement Programs as well, then?

A difference in philosophy is acceptable in this game and I have had some newbies say that they would rather earn their way up. I compliment them on their goals and wish them the best.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-02-05 20:16:43 UTC
At this point we have handed out lots of Frigates and Destroyers. Mainly (as I said) to encourage them to take a chance or two or to help them get past that first earning speed bump of the game. While a mill or two of ship is HUGE to them you know that in the long run this is a drop in the bucket. So I do not see it as giving a false impression of loss, just getting them going on the bike (parents who have taught a child to ride know what I mean) They will crash, later but we want to get them up to speed.

Odd anecdotal statistic. When in a career system I get approximately 5% of the people in local responding. I cannot say whether the others are nervous or just not watching.

I want to thank people like Otto and others for recent donations as well as folks who contract me ships and such. I spend as much time in Jita, Amarr, Dodixie and Rens doing fittings for delivery as I do in the career systems.

I also invite any organizations/corps who are welcoming newbies in to contact me. Mynxee will vouch for the fact that I do send them along. Let me know what your focus is and that you will help the newbies LEARN. If you are just getting them to swell ranks and have the 'here's a Rubics cube . . . ' attitude I will take issue with sending anyone your way.

I started the project because of the This Is Eve video influx but it has grown legs and is now carrying me wildly forward. I am hanging on and enjoying the ride.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Amarr Empire
#11 - 2015-02-05 21:23:31 UTC
Eldwinn wrote:
Timezones these are planned? I need to pipebomb someone. Also, is this not an Events thread more than anything?

eve doesn't seem to be a "just the tip" kind of game so this response seems appropriate.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Amarr Empire
#12 - 2015-02-05 21:33:29 UTC
Major Ream wrote:
Bittervet rant.

I've tried getting people into this game before and worked with many newbros over the years. I can agree that handing things over to them and doing all the work for them can and will ruin the game for them.

However I've also noticed that left to one's own many players stick in high sec and mine or run missions for a year because they are afraid to PvP without 20 million skill points and a faction fit T2 ship or don't think they will be of much help since they don't know much about the game.

I think there is a happy medium in which you can throw a newbro a free ship and say see you can be valuable to a fleet even from day 1 and give them a taste of what's to come and also not get them locked into the fear of losing a ship that having to grind all your own isk from day gets most players.

When I first started playing this game I was in a corp that would let me mine in a cruiser and get the same cut as someone mining in a hulk on mining ops. Without that help I would not be here today. You leave new players on their own with a 21 day trial and google and very few will make it to day 3 much less long timer players.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

#13 - 2015-02-05 23:15:56 UTC

sounds like a good initiative to me.

I'm looking forward to Major Reams reply as to why SRP programs aren't destroying the game because of ~reasons~
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2015-02-06 07:05:32 UTC
voetius wrote:

sounds like a good initiative to me.

I'm looking forward to Major Reams reply as to why SRP programs aren't destroying the game because of ~reasons~

SRP (Ship Replacement Program) is something player corporations do to help entice their members to be more active, usually for WarDec's. In my opinion that in itself is a good thing since it shows the corp cares about it's members.

I believe the reason Major Ream didn't mention that is because it doesn't pertain to brand new players in NPC corps located in starter systems.

While I applaud and commend Mike Azariah for his intentions and the contributions to new players, I also understand and agree with the points of concern that Major Ream has brought up. Compared to how it was in the past, it's a lot easier now for new players to gain ISK so I don't see that as a problem. In my opinion new players actually suffer more from lack of info than lack of ISK.

Hopefully 'Operation Magic School Bus' is more of a random occurrence that happens every once in a while instead of being a recurring occurrence that happens quite often. If it's the latter then that would make it nothing more than a scheduled in-game event.

To make sure that doesn't happen, maybe have it be more seasonal, such as occurring mainly in the summer time when there's a greater influx of new players to the game. Could also do surprise appearances in the various starter systems during the Holidays.

Anyway, +1 for a good interesting project.


DMC
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-02-06 07:14:49 UTC
I am too chaotic to keep to a schedule though I am around a fair amount.

and it is always ships, I am not a fan of handing out isk. (except in unusual cases)

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Soviet-Union
#16 - 2015-02-06 17:11:25 UTC
This is a great idea and I've spoken with Mike about it on a few podcasts.

I also donated 1b to the cause, please do help out as well!
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-03-20 12:22:46 UTC
Just came across this as a returning (good as new) player from the High Drag podcast. Anything I learned, I've forgotten after a three-year break, so was going to do the tutorial missions again on this toon (if that's possible).

Hope we can cross paths, am very much enjoying New Eden again, overwhelmed as I am! Big smile
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2015-03-20 14:44:04 UTC
Awesome! This is just the sort of thing I've been advocating for in the "why do players stay in npc corps" thread in order to get players new to EVE engaged with the player base and the game. This sort of thing, done by CAS members, is what got me hooked a year ago.

Speaking of CAS...

Quote:
I also invite any organizations/corps who are welcoming newbies in to contact me. Mynxee will vouch for the fact that I do send them along. Let me know what your focus is and that you will help the newbies LEARN. If you are just getting them to swell ranks and have the 'here's a Rubics cube . . . ' attitude I will take issue with sending anyone your way.


Are you aware of the things CAS does?
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2015-03-20 16:19:05 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
I am too chaotic to keep to a schedule though I am around a fair amount.

and it is always ships, I am not a fan of handing out isk. (except in unusual cases)

m

I highly recommend not planning something you cannot dedicate time to it just makes you look like an idiot
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-03-20 16:29:53 UTC
Major Ream wrote:
This is why I don't think socialist handouts to noobs are a good idea. It's better if they treasure their ships, at least in the beginning. It's better that they get a sense of accomplishment when they figure out how to fit the things. It's better if they think their ships matter, and take the time to figure out how to use EFT. It's better if they read up so they know wtf they're doing. It's better that they learn how to figure out how to fit a ship, instead of saving a fit someone hands them and not learning a thing.


(horrified)Nooooooo!(/horrified)

Treasuring ships leads to being afraid to lose ships. Being afraid to lose ships leads to not undocking and eventually unsubbing at worst. Not healthy for the game nor the player.

The sense of accomplishment a new player needs to get is not about, for example, knowing the difference between a point and a scram and when to fit one or the other (I didn't know about the difference until well into my PvP career) - rather, they should get a sense of accomplishment from being a valued part of a team.

You're basically telling new players "Don't PvP until you know how to PvP - of which ship fitting is an important aspect." No, new players learn to PvP by doing PvP. Which is much more effectively done by giving the new player a properly fitted ship to learn with, rather than them bringing, say, a hull-and-shield-tanked Catalyst with two each of different ranged projectile guns they spent an hour in a Venture mining in order to pay for, and especially more effectively done than telling the new player with such a ship to stay home and read web pages until they figure out fitting.
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