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[Carnyx] The Jackdaw

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C C P Alliance
#1 - 2015-05-09 20:51:33 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Hello everyone! We're now ready to share our current designs for the Jackdaw-class Caldari Tactical Destroyer.

You'll notice a few things when you see the stats:

  • The Jackdaw is a missile ship with a potential 10 effective launchers, placing it between the Heretic and Flycatcher in raw DPS. It doesn't have a missile precision bonus, although it does get a big 66.6% missile velocity bonus when in Sharpshooter mode.
  • The Propulsion mode bonuses on the Jackdaw provide a huge agility bonus and a smaller speed bonus, the opposite of the earlier T3Ds. When out of propulsion mode the Jackdaw turns like a slow cruiser, but when it enters propulsion mode it gets the agility of an extremely agile frigate.
  • Powergrid is very tight for most fittings, but CPU is much more generous.
  • Finally I'll point people to the mass, which is extremely low for a destroyer. This helps compensate for the low base speed, allowing the Jackdaw to gain above average benefits from frigate sized propulsion modules and below average benefits from oversized propulsion modules (although those are still usable with their own advantages and disadvantages).


Jackdaw
Caldari Tactical Destroyer Bonuses Per Level:
5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile Launcher rate of fire
15% reduction in Missile Launcher reload time
5% reduction in heat damage generated by modules
Role Bonus:
50% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile damage
95% reduction in Scan Probe Launcher CPU requirements

Additional bonuses are available when one of three Tactical Destroyer Modes are active. Modes may be changed no more than once every 10 seconds.
Defense Mode:

33.3% bonus to all shield resistances while Defense Mode is active
33.3% reduction in ship signature radius while Defense Mode is active
Propulsion Mode:
33.3% bonus to max velocity while Propulsion Mode is active
66.6% bonus to ship inertia modifier while Propulsion Mode is active
Sharpshooter Mode:
66.6% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile velocity while Sharpshooter Mode is active
100% bonus to sensor strength, scan resolution and targeting range while Sharpshooter Mode is active

Slot layout: 6 H, 6 M, 2 L, 5 launchers
3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration
Fittings: 57 PWG, 270 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 900 / 600 / 600
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 60 / 55 / 50
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 72.5 / 43.75 / 10
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 700 / 300s / 2.333
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 170 / 6.6 / 1,000,000 / 4.5 / 9.15s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 15 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 70
Cargo capacity: 450

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Resonance.
#2 - 2015-05-09 20:54:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Discomanco
First :D
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#3 - 2015-05-09 21:00:39 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Slot layout: 6 H, 6 M, 2 L, 5 launchers


Is that intentional to leave it with 1 more than the rest of them?

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C C P Alliance
#4 - 2015-05-09 21:01:23 UTC
Mizhir wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Slot layout: 6 H, 6 M, 2 L, 5 launchers


Is that intentional to leave it with 1 more than the rest of them?


Yup

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Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

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#5 - 2015-05-09 21:06:55 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Slot layout: 6 H, 6 M, 2 L, 5 launchers


Is that intentional to leave it with 1 more than the rest of them?


Yup


:( I liked the two spare slots on T3 dessies hoped it would continue

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Test Alliance Please Ignore
#6 - 2015-05-09 21:12:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Ao Kishuba
Thank you for removing the kinetic damage lock shown on earlier stats.

Now just to remove it from the rest of the Caldari ships, and we'll be getting somewhere...

edit: seriously though please remove the kinetic lock. Caldari is the only of the four races with no selectable damage type for a main weapon.

Minmatar get both projectiles and missiles, with no damage locks on any.

Gallente get drones, which can do any type of damage.

Amarr also have bonused drone ships, and a few Khanid missile ships with no damage locks.

Caldari have... kinetic and thermal, for the most part, with only a few exceptions (mostly battleships and others which are rarely used, though I will concede the Caracal is popular. Gratz, Caldari have one popular missile boat). Why is it that the Caldari, the race who are supposed to be all about missiles, have the worst missile boats?
Pandemic Legion
#7 - 2015-05-09 21:12:33 UTC
Faren Shalni wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Slot layout: 6 H, 6 M, 2 L, 5 launchers


Is that intentional to leave it with 1 more than the rest of them?


Yup


:( I liked the two spare slots on T3 dessies hoped it would continue

you can always take a gun off, it having more effective turrets than the other 2 T3Ds isn't a cause for complaint


i think for the brawling version of this is going to be ridiculous when sitting in fwar beacons - i don't know what ship could possibly compete with landing 10km away from it when fit with rockets and 1mn abs due to the mids allowing you to double web scram and sit at keep range 9000 with 400 dps of rockets

Pandemic Legion
#8 - 2015-05-09 21:13:54 UTC
i do like how you skirted around it being a stupidly overpowered talwar though, i just think the brawling double web scram rocket version needs to be addressed for people in faction-war's sanity
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#9 - 2015-05-09 21:37:29 UTC
Capqu wrote:
stupidly overpowered


Of course it's going to be stupidly overpowered. Have you seen the other D3s? They've gotta have the OP dessies so everybody can hurf blurf about how frig/dessie is best PVP, and anything bigger is for dirty blobbers in nullsec (unless, of course, you're doing solo PVP in a Marauder, which is okay).
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-05-09 21:39:15 UTC
Capqu wrote:
i do like how you skirted around it being a stupidly overpowered talwar though, i just think the brawling double web scram rocket version needs to be addressed for people in faction-war's sanity


Nooooo shhhh, it's finally a rocket boat worth flying in FW! Been waiting for a decent rocket destroyer that's not damaged locked.
Also with the 300 scan res kiters can get away before being scrammed/webed.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#11 - 2015-05-09 21:42:03 UTC
Kashuken Farith wrote:
decent rocket destroyer that's not damaged locked.


Down with Caldari kinetic lock!

Seriously, it's 2015... why is this still a thing?
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#12 - 2015-05-09 21:49:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Saerin Korvalu
The main problem I'm seeing with the ship is the gimped PWG. It's ridiculously low.

Less PWG than a Corax. -_-
Tactical-Retreat
#13 - 2015-05-09 21:51:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
The signature radius worries me, especially given that it won't be able to fit an oversized AB given both the low base speed and incredibly low PWG. So it will almost certainly be an MWD, which is rather sad given that an agility bonus really has an impact on 10mn ABs.

But man I've got to admit, what an interesting ship!

The whole bipolar agility thing sounds very interesting to fly and I'm glad it didn't end up damage locked as I feared.
The range seems lacking and will probably force the sharpshooter mode for most engagements, but the DPS makes up for it.

Overall my opinion on this ship is very positive, it has its upsides, it has its downsides... Good job!

PS: Kill damage lock please. It hurts the game. Caldaris should have two missile damage options just like the guristas.

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Test Alliance Please Ignore
#14 - 2015-05-09 22:01:40 UTC
Altrue wrote:
Caldaris should have two missile damage options just like the guristas.


Not sure why the Guristas are damage locked too, but most of the DPS in their ships comes from drones anyway (which are not damage locked).

Caldari missile boats should have all the damage types. Why limit them to just two? Are people sick of seeing all the Cerberus fleets in null, people can only rat in a Caracal Navy Issue because it's the best ship, people constantly asking CCP Please nerf missiles?

In the current cruiser-based meta, is a kinetic damage lock the only thing stopping the Drake (a battlecruiser) from becoming the dominant ship in EVE? If that's the case, why aren't people flying Cyclones all over the place?

No, no... remove the kinetic lock from the damage bonuses, let the missiles be free to use all damage types, like every other race gets.
Tactical-Retreat
#15 - 2015-05-09 22:16:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
Ao Kishuba wrote:
Caldari missile boats should have all the damage types. Why limit them to just two?


Well it was to adress a balance issue that would arise. Minmatar missile ships tend to do less dps but are omnidamage thanks to a RoF bonus.

Currently, Caldari missile ships do more dps but are kinetic locked. If you just remove the kinetic lock, the dps might need to go down. So, by offering to reduce the damage lock instead of completely nuking it, the balance kind of remains in my point of view.

About the PWG issue, I'd recommend following the other T3Ds pattern and moving to four launchers (with a better role bonus). It would enable two utility highs and ease the PWG pain a bit.

The damage bonus required to put four launchers to the same dps than five launchers with a 50% dmg bonus is 87.5%

Edit: I just ran the numbers, low base speed + low speed bonus in propulsion mode = anemic speed. I was expecting something low, but 1400 m/s with a mwd outside of propulsion mode... you might want to up it a little bit.

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#16 - 2015-05-09 22:23:42 UTC
So the ship has no application bonus, but high paper DPS, so it'll be good at fighting cruisers, but not so much frigates. Okay.

The ship is Caldari, so high sig radius. The ship is shield tanked, so higher sig radius. Only gets a range bonus in sharpshooter mode so will need MWD (PG way too low for 10MNAB) to have any chance of being in range, so even higher sig radius.

Defense mode gives a laughable -33% reduction in sig radius which means it'll still take massive damage from the cruisers it was made to fight.

Perfect.

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#17 - 2015-05-09 22:25:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Gorski Car
P O W E R C R E E P B O I S

Will edit soon

Edit 1: this looks strongest as a rocket ship. Raw hp bonus is cool and helps keep the power down on this ship. When i first saw the csm preview stats i feared that we would get a super active tanky lml 10mn ab ship and this is a bit better.

raw hp bonus and polarized rockets plus full range control will be so cool. This is a good ship. Maybe not as op as first release svipul but still it will kill most other frigs and dessies

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Gallente Federation
#18 - 2015-05-09 22:33:55 UTC
Looks cool!

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Shadow Cartel
#19 - 2015-05-09 22:41:50 UTC
Quote:
Powergrid is very tight for most fittings, but CPU is much more generous.


am I going to end up using best named (that means compact btw, your tiericide didn't work) launchers? sure am glad I trained LM spec 5 :(
Tactical-Retreat
#20 - 2015-05-09 22:43:00 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Quote:
Powergrid is very tight for most fittings, but CPU is much more generous.


am I going to end up using best named (that means compact btw, your tiericide didn't work) launchers? sure am glad I trained LM spec 5 :(


You most certainly are going to if the PWG stays that way. I don't really get the whole effort on making the PWG so tight, there is really no need to sanction 10mn AB fits given that their speed will be laughable at best.

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