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[118.7] Warp Bubble Dragging Change

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C C P Alliance
#1 - 2016-07-01 10:47:36 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Hi Space Friends,

The current range that warp bubbles are effective (how far from your destination they can pull you out of warp) is a little unclear. This has lead to some 'interesting' possibilities, such as bubble camping a gate with a citadel.

With the 118.7 patch, we are considering changing the maximum distance for a warp bubble (mobile, probe or hictor bubble) to effect a warp to be 500km.

This means only warp disruption bubbles that are 500km in-front or behind your warp destination, which are inline with your warp, will pull you out of warp early or drag you.

What do you think? We'd love your feedback!

Update 2016-07-04 - Q&A

Game Designer | Team Phenomenon | https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin

Caldari State
#2 - 2016-07-01 10:49:39 UTC
YES DO IT.
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2016-07-01 10:51:48 UTC
Fair and elegant change. Ship it!

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

#4 - 2016-07-01 10:53:09 UTC
imgay
The Tuskers Co.
#5 - 2016-07-01 10:57:34 UTC
Seems like a very good change.
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2016-07-01 11:01:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahanis Inkunen
The hard cap on bubble drag range makes the following possible: Anchor a t1 small bubble 499 km from a gate and a t2 large 501 km from the gate. When somebody warps to the gate they end up on the edge of a small bubble, deep inside the large.
Mercenary Coalition
#7 - 2016-07-01 11:03:29 UTC
Kahanis Inkunen wrote:
The hard cap on bubble drag range makes the following possible: Anchor a t1 small bubble 499 km from a gate and a t2 large 501 km from the gate. When somebody warps to the gate they end up on the edge of a small bubble, deep inside the large.



Seeing as we don't generally care about bubblefucked gates you jump into, I doubt this is a problem.
C C P Alliance
#8 - 2016-07-01 11:04:57 UTC
Kahanis Inkunen wrote:
The hard cap on bubble drag range makes the following possible: Anchor a t1 small bubble 499 km from a gate and a t2 large 501 km from the gate. When somebody warps to the gate they end up on the edge of a small bubble, deep inside the large.


This is also possible now :)

Game Designer | Team Phenomenon | https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin

The Bastion
#9 - 2016-07-01 11:07:00 UTC
This seems like such a no-brainer that I'm not sure why it wasn't done back when the grid size was expanded so dramatically.

In general it doesn't seem like the drag effect was intended to work at ranges of thousands to tens of thousands of KM. Allowing this in the first place is a major buff to the tactic, as being within MWD range of the gate/station/etc is no longer feasible.

Specifically looking at the citadels issue, my understanding is that citadels can't be placed close to gates precisely so that they can't interfere with gate travel. Dragging directly to within range of a citadel rather negates that limitation.

Now recruiting: http://dogfacedesign.com/index.php/Recruiting-Posters/recruiting-poster-patr3

Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2016-07-01 11:07:09 UTC
I'm against this. I would rather love bubbles to break the warp anywhere in-between start and finish warp points, including safespots, and removing drag-bubble mechanics (because you exit warp before them).
This looks harsh, but it would bring in a reasonable amount of difficulty to gang chases and fleet warfare.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#11 - 2016-07-01 11:07:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Arizan Holosalintan
I disagree

Currently there are interdiction nullified ships present in the game, allowing for the avoidance of Citadel drag bubbles. Travel ceptors are unlockable and should be used to scout your routes. If you're travelling a route you haven't scouted, it should the defender who has the advantage.

Grids are currently 8'000km. Grids of this size would be not be fully utilized if we're only going to use 500km.

Warp disruption bubbles and drag bubbling allow for grid manipulation and control. The ability to change the terrain and manipulate it allows for interesting scenarios to develop based upon point of origin and setup.

Bubble camping a gate with a citadel only puts you in range of the PDS systems, as such small things (if you haven't scouted your) will be affected. If you have scouted your route, why are you warping gate to gate? Shouldn't you bounce from a moon, planet or anomaly to avoid bubble?

If you're bigger, haven't scouted, and land in the bubble depending on the ship you have you'll land in a warp bubble as normal and suffer the consequences.

Citadel camping, i.e being on a citadel with carriers and attacking people on the gate bubbles won't be fixed by this.
Being in a Citadel camping with the PDS smart bombs won't save you from a manned gate camp.

So in brief this change is an attempt to protect travel from manned gate camps. Which it won't prevent because apparently the smart bombs on citadels are too OP (which they aren't) on account of people traveling through space without scouting (which they shouldn't).

Does that about cover it?
Jump Drive Appreciation Alliance
#12 - 2016-07-01 11:12:21 UTC
This is a good idea and I'm sure most people would be happy with the change
Central Omni Galactic Group
#13 - 2016-07-01 11:15:46 UTC
This is a pretty fair change - I don't have a problem with it as someone who enjoys bubbling gates.
#14 - 2016-07-01 11:19:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
No, and i hate bubbles

Eve is sandbox - players in nullsec should be allowed to do as they like.
Don't take or nerf tools we have.

Citadel camping is only possible if person warp directly between the gates.
If they use bookmark, any celestial they will not fall into the citadel trap.

You stated few times, people can only have citadels, if they control some area of the space, if this is my space i should be allowed to do as i like.


If someone is afraid of bubbles - they can use nullified ships.
Jump Drive Appreciation Alliance
#15 - 2016-07-01 11:21:30 UTC
Seems like a good idea.
#16 - 2016-07-01 11:23:00 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Kahanis Inkunen wrote:
The hard cap on bubble drag range makes the following possible: Anchor a t1 small bubble 499 km from a gate and a t2 large 501 km from the gate. When somebody warps to the gate they end up on the edge of a small bubble, deep inside the large.


This is also possible now :)

This makes the meta balls model misleading, don't you think?
Shadow Cartel
#17 - 2016-07-01 11:31:33 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Kahanis Inkunen wrote:
The hard cap on bubble drag range makes the following possible: Anchor a t1 small bubble 499 km from a gate and a t2 large 501 km from the gate. When somebody warps to the gate they end up on the edge of a small bubble, deep inside the large.


This is also possible now :)


are you saying this is fine, or are you saying you'll fix this some other time?

it's not fine btw, it's really awful
Mercenary Coalition
#18 - 2016-07-01 11:48:28 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Kahanis Inkunen wrote:
The hard cap on bubble drag range makes the following possible: Anchor a t1 small bubble 499 km from a gate and a t2 large 501 km from the gate. When somebody warps to the gate they end up on the edge of a small bubble, deep inside the large.


This is also possible now :)


are you saying this is fine, or are you saying you'll fix this some other time?

it's not fine btw, it's really awful



Why? Should warping to direct gate to gate unscouted not be punished?
Affirmative.
#19 - 2016-07-01 11:54:21 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Kahanis Inkunen wrote:
The hard cap on bubble drag range makes the following possible: Anchor a t1 small bubble 499 km from a gate and a t2 large 501 km from the gate. When somebody warps to the gate they end up on the edge of a small bubble, deep inside the large.


This is also possible now :)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only way that you can end up with this currently is if the Larger Bubble is put there by a HIC/DIC, I believe that Kahanis Inkunen was concerned about them both being Anchored items, which current mechanics would put you on the edge of the larger bubble.


----Direction of Travel----> A(edge of Large Bubble B(edge of smaller bubble

Concern is that currently you would end at A, with the proposed changes and the correctly distanced bubble placement you'd end up at B.
Pandemic Legion
#20 - 2016-07-01 12:04:23 UTC
Caldari 5 wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Kahanis Inkunen wrote:
The hard cap on bubble drag range makes the following possible: Anchor a t1 small bubble 499 km from a gate and a t2 large 501 km from the gate. When somebody warps to the gate they end up on the edge of a small bubble, deep inside the large.


This is also possible now :)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only way that you can end up with this currently is if the Larger Bubble is put there by a HIC/DIC,



You're wrong.
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