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Market Price History Graphs

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C C P Alliance
#1 - 2016-09-30 15:33:40 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Goliath
The new Price History graphs for the market are now visible on Singularity.

Please hop onto the test server market and play around. A few notes:


  • The time period displayed can be controlled with the resizable and slidable focus box on the lower graph.
  • The y-axis length and center of the main graph can be controlled with the scroll wheel.
  • Each element of the main graph can be toggled off and on in the graph settings cog menu (upper right).
  • Graph draw animations can also be disabled in the settings.



Before testing and commenting, peruse these known issues:


    Right now, NONE!


But do feel free to comment and report additional bugs via the F12 menu. Thanks

"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."

@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.

C C P Alliance
#2 - 2016-10-03 12:03:26 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Antiquarian
Known issues updated with fixes from 1079640!

We have added the toggle-able legend, a numerical indicator of days selected in the focus frame, and better framing of the Donchian channel at all y-axis zoom levels (which have been limited to a useful scope).

Also, 100% fewer known crashes!


Again, comments are welcome here and via the F12 menu's bug reporting option. Player feedback is the meat upon which all devs grow fat!

"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."

@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.

Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#3 - 2016-10-04 22:39:12 UTC
1. Select hide legend in the menu also hide the menu :)

2. I want to have for example a 3 month timeframe for every item in market. How?

3. The dragbox seems broken. Timeframes for several items switches back to 30 days.

C C P Alliance
#4 - 2016-10-05 17:36:09 UTC
Limarr wrote:
1. Select hide legend in the menu also hide the menu :)

FIXED!


Quote:
2. I want to have for example a 3 month timeframe for every item in market. How?

Right now, you'll have to adjust them manually, but the Market should remember your choice for each item.


Quote:
3. The dragbox seems broken. Timeframes for several items switches back to 30 days.

Hm...we haven't seen that on the current version. Can you provide an example?

"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."

@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.

Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#5 - 2016-10-07 18:46:02 UTC
1. Fixed confirmed

2. Market now remember timeframe settings for every item thats good but after relogging today everything is resetted to 1 month timeframe.

Maybe a klickfest for traders every day. I would prefer an additional global option for the timeframe like on TQ. We will see later.

3. Fixed
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2016-10-07 20:43:25 UTC
While you are at it, could you take a look at bug report EBR-88929 (issued for TQ)?
C C P Alliance
#7 - 2016-10-09 23:09:20 UTC
Skia Aumer wrote:
While you are at it, could you take a look at bug report EBR-88929 (issued for TQ)?


Will scan down and investigate tomorrow. On AT recovery just now.

"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."

@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.

Blades of Grass
#8 - 2016-10-10 19:50:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Sky Marshal
This new market graph is definitively better if we are speaking about functionality. Well, I would love to see the low or high price directly in the graph or in the hovering dialog on any bar, but whatever : It is already better than before.

But... in the visual domain, this is an absolute failure. The background of the price graph in the TQ version is not transparent even with Transparency at maximum. In SiSi, it is transparent depending of this setting and so totally NOT usable if there is too much transparency. Any player who want to use the price graph will HAVE to set it low or even disable it (and blur too, to be sure), some players won't appreciate. I don't use Transparency in the first place as it is an annoyance, but I wanted to test.

The color palette chosen is not really great too. If you have setted a really low brightness on your monitor like me, it make parts of the graph (mostly the Donchian Channel) difficult to read. It is exploitable, but not as much than the actual TQ palette. Maybe an option to get old colors ?
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2016-10-10 23:31:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Soltys
It's certainly an (foundament for) improvement, but the obvious issues (see Sky Marshal's remarks above):


  • transparency literally murders it (and this is not only related to the market window)
  • another thing that would be nice to have - ability to grab it and move vertically (not critical, but nice)


But overall yea - it's much better (once the above get sorted out). Being able to finally scale it is much appreciated after 13 years of ... well yea.

(small edit: after using it a bit more ... ummm; well the only positive part is that we /can/ scale veritcally, other than that it's full of issues, though they have been already listed by the following posts - please don't ignore them)

While we're at interface related issues - the interface with certain things have been PITA for a few years, since some of the stuff was changed and all feedback was directed straight to /dev/null. Among those:

- lack of rgb sliders
- forced snap-in (this is often beyond frustrating); in the past we could define distance, including turning it of completely
- forced transparency when pinned down
- forced pullup of snapped windows when their neighbour is getting minimized to title bar (even if they are pinned, seriously ....)
- lack of tab (ninja removed quite recently) minimizing to title bars

That people stopped complaining about those doesn't mean that people like those changes. Everyone has certain threshold of endurance when one stops caring and just moves on without bothering to suggest or bugreport [anything] anymore.

There is a barrel of outstanding issues (both months old bugs and/or obvious usability issues) related to everything recently added - map, solar/probe map, probe dialog, tactical overlay, "WAS", camera ...


Anyway as I digress - back to market: while you're changing this part of interface, few minor things would be amazing to have along with the new graphs for november release:

  • Wallet & Corporate Wallet -> Transactions: for those two LMB double click action is not even defined. It would be quite amazing if it showed market details for the item of completed transaction
  • "Mark my orders" - is a little amazing thing that helps seing your own orders. It would be even more amazing if we had "Mark corporation orders" as well (enabled for characters that have "trader" role); for traders using multiple characters this would be godsend when going through finished transactions - seing all coproration orders for specific item without the need to constantly alt-tab / eve-preview / etc. and click, click, click ....
  • when LMB double clicking under market details on one's own order - it would make much more sense to call "modify order" dialog

Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl & Kuvl

Amarr Empire
#10 - 2016-10-11 17:46:34 UTC
I heartfully disagree with anybody saying that it represents an improvement. Quoting myself from the other thread :

Domain's Eye wrote:
I usually don't wish terrible things to people i don't know, but those in charge of the new market graphs should be fire. Simple as that.

To think that you actually put (very needed elsewhere) ressources there, to screw up something that nobody asked you to change, is simply infuriating.

The left axis makes no sense, at all. I can't see the current day's dot, regardless of how much i tinker and screw this f*ucking slide. I'm forced to "Show Table" every single time. I can't set a default size other than 30 days. The 365 days size is flawed as many already stated.

New pale colors inside a very dark window, same kind of crap you pulled for the "New Map" (forever in Beta) which is an absolute mess. You can hardly see anything, and with the gigantic failure of the left axis, the whole thing is simply not usable as it is.

I'd highly encourage you to look at that quickly, otherwise i'll quit EVE once again, for good and forever this time.


Right now, i simply cannot play. There is no way to put a default slide size that fitts my needs, there's no way to see the current day's data, graphs are still broken by any unusual event (so yeah, disable donchian, min/max AND average, and usually there's no problem : great).

It's messy, it's awful : you screwed up massively.
#11 - 2016-10-11 18:39:04 UTC
If I knew that topic existed 10 days ago, I would have berated you on the short notice of things and would have been able to provide much better feedback than what the bulletins I wrote elsewhere.
Thank you Domain's Eye for making me aware of it, even though you didn't say anything.
Here are the points from the feedback topic in case anyone is still interested, which I highly doubt at this point *sighs*

  1. Why do we need a red line which acts as "zero ISK" and why do we need a negative ISK display? Neither exists on the market. The line is confusing. I understand you tried to make the "volume" bars better visible on low price, high volume goods, but you simply could have moved those volume bars to the top and have a dynamic left axis which adjusts for lowest price when a new low is hit.
  2. The left axis is completely inconsistent in price jumps when scrolling. It makes no sense. You should apply an algorithm which checks price differences and make nice clean round numbers according to it's relation.
  3. Scrolling does not dynamically adjust focus point with price jumps to keep everything in line. It keeps focusing on the zero line. It should be centered on median day price.
  4. Clicking an option in the cogwheel resets the graph instead of keeping where it is.
  5. The time slider does not add up horizontally with the graph window, causing confusion as you don't know what it should refer to. Volume? Prices? Fix it to the same width please, making room for other options.
  6. Time slide colours are too diffuse and hard to see.
  7. There are no presets to click for time shown. I like the slider and how I can click it, but presets which are located below/above the slider chart (and not hidden in a dropdown menu which causes one extra click) would be just as useful.
  8. All bars and dots are scaled to a full year even though only a few days are selected. That makes it difficult to gauge finer changes and makes it less intuitive to look at. Volume bars and price dots should scale dynamically according to the timeframe shown. Making everything refer to 365 (sorry, I meant 364...) days, is terribly lazy design philosophy.
  9. A great example on how intuitive visibility is broken: Look at "Construction Blocks" in Lonetrek. Thanks to that one ridiculous spike, all graphs lack detailed definition.
  10. The graph does not auto-update as you pull the slide because it's fixed to the silly full year range. Make it dynamic based on visibility and auto-update on dragging.
  11. We still can't make our own settings for non-daily average. Why can't I set 10 day or 30 day averages?
  12. We still don't have a setting that says "ignore prices which are x % above and below regional average" to clip away unnecessary spikes.

The slider saves each position for each item individually and never acts smart about it. That is nauseating.

When I look at a portion of an item, a 40 day segment from earlier this year, it STAYS there only for this very item until I log out. It's okay that it prevails through session changes to not disturb during warping. It's okay that it does not save it when logging out. Still I'm sure there are people who want options for that.

I don't care for having the time slider saved at that position. It's actually getting in my way of doing my trading.
If I review the item again it might be in a different region where that selection doesn't apply any more, so I want it snapped back to the earliest record at my default time window. There is no way to set a default time window currently. There should be. 30 days default are not what I am used to work with. There are already too many clicks in the user interface that need to be done to get to a reasonable result and adding more clicks to it isn't helping.


I like the slider. I like the colours but they should be brighter. I like how there is mouseover information for volume and median day. That's the only things I find good here.

You also should: break up volume into "units sold / units bought" which can be easily done with a second colour (a change I wait for since years) and you should add highest / lowest price on top of the median day mouseover info.
#12 - 2016-10-12 00:16:17 UTC
The preferences get erased after the end of the client session, so you have to manually scroll to a year from a default of a month. I need it set to a year and don't really use other time horizons. Very poor design. I am not happy.
C C P Alliance
#13 - 2016-10-12 00:35:27 UTC
Although this iteration is already out on TQ, I am taking down some of the suggestions here for future iterative work. We are very receptive to any civilly worded criticism that will help improve the game, and I will keep an eye out for ways to improve this feature for everyone. Some description here for users that are curious about the design decisions:

The red zero line and potential for negatives on the Y axis are present because we have not yet implemented the ability to click and drag within the graph. Because scrolling can move the graph center up or down dramatically, we found it useful to have a baseline clearly visible.

We used a utility called Color Oracle to help inform our color choices. We will take another look at the transparency, pursuant to the issues reported here (I play with 100% transparency enabled, personally, but testing has been conducted all along the slider).

Bar and Dot sizes are dynamic depending on the selected time frame of the slidable, resizable focus box, which displays the period selected in days. It matches the length of the X-axis (the number of bars and dot's displayed) and features the same month division lines for clarity.


There are open defects regarding the reset of the Y-axis when selecting or deselecting a setting option in the cogwheel menu and the absence of the current day dot.

"Singularity pilots are helpful pilots."

@CCP_Antiquarian - for immediate fulfillment of your archaic social media needs.

Rate My Ticks
#14 - 2016-10-12 07:35:54 UTC
CCP Antiquarian wrote:
Although this iteration is already out on TQ, I am taking down some of the suggestions here for future iterative work. We are very receptive to any civilly worded criticism that will help improve the game, and I will keep an eye out for ways to improve this feature for everyone. Some description here for users that are curious about the design decisions:

The red zero line and potential for negatives on the Y axis are present because we have not yet implemented the ability to click and drag within the graph. Because scrolling can move the graph center up or down dramatically, we found it useful to have a baseline clearly visible.

We used a utility called Color Oracle to help inform our color choices. We will take another look at the transparency, pursuant to the issues reported here (I play with 100% transparency enabled, personally, but testing has been conducted all along the slider).

Bar and Dot sizes are dynamic depending on the selected time frame of the slidable, resizable focus box, which displays the period selected in days. It matches the length of the X-axis (the number of bars and dot's displayed) and features the same month division lines for clarity.


There are open defects regarding the reset of the Y-axis when selecting or deselecting a setting option in the cogwheel menu and the absence of the current day dot.

Depending on the granularity of the data available, it would be nice to be able to view the last 24 whole hours (ie a new iteration every hour) of things. Additionally, can we PLEASE have an option to increase size of the volume bars? Frankly it's a little ******** when the graph sets the size of volume based on the highest spike in the last year, rather than based off the highest volume of the time you're VIEWING. As an example, just because nitrogen isotopes had a 8mil+ volume spike half a year ago should not mean the entire graph is set to a high value of 8mil for volume when for any other given timeframe, you're looking at say, <1mil volume a day.
No Handlebars.
#15 - 2016-10-12 09:49:13 UTC
A bit non plussed with the new market graph too. I realise you gals and guys work hard at CCP to make the game better and it must be really disheartening when you think you've worked hard to make something really cool and then we all just moan about it. We do appreciate the work you put in even if we grizzle about the end result.

For me the new graph stuff looks prettier, but is less useful as a tool, and that what us players who stare at the market graphs the most want, not pretty graphics but a useful tool. This is the essence of my feedback on the changes. Style over substance.

Where to start?
Price graph scale going negative????? wtf? why?

The uneven scaling on the left hand axis. I've looked through my basket of favourtie market items and quite a few of them have uneven scaling, sometimes it jumps by 0.2 sometimes by 0.3. Of course it's down to the rounding in the display of the scale but having points on a scale that are equally spaced having different numerical increases between points is just absurd.

Visbility - my eyesight is quite poor even with glasses. Each time you mute down colours and brightness it makes dealing with the Eve user interface much more difficult for me. Just normal UI Eve windows alone are a real pain for me, because you don't like to have window borders, or stand out icons top right in the window. I am always closing the wrong window by mistake. Always. Please please please consider people who aren't as young as you and don't have as good eyesight when doing UI stuff. I bet you UI peeps all work in a fairly dark room which allows your young eyes to really see the subtle and muted interface parts with ease.

Default horizontal axis timescale gone :( Yeah the slidey thing is all fancy, but I just want to be able to choose 1 year, six months, one month etc... and hop around the items looking at them all over my chosen timescale. Having to adjust each one over and over again is a real sad moment here. This is a prime example of fancy graphics over usability. Please please put this back in, you removed something very useful. This is my biggest feedback request on the changes. If nothing else please fix this one thing.

Table view.
I did have an instance where the table view data order was all messed up but clicking on other items I'm not seeing it again, so assume a one off glitch.

Feature request - not a comment on changes. An extend axis to zero on/off radio button for price left axis. I know this will flatten many graphs if turned on but it will highlight very significantly price fluctuation versus cost of item. Optional extend scale to zero big big Christmas wish here please santa CCP.

I do appreciate the work you gals and guys do, but please fix this. Big frown over here for the changes.
Sorry for not liking the changes. They are pretty and swish. They do look cool modern and sci-fi. I can see if I was showing a new player to the game I would turn the animations back on and they would probably be impressed. Just as a tool it's less useful than it was before and I would like you to add that functionality back please.
Invisible Exchequer
#16 - 2016-10-12 12:39:09 UTC
As of today, the default slider of 30d does not go up to todays date, it goes to the 10th.

You need to manually slide it to the right to get 11th (12th is not viewable at all)

Whilst it is good that the slider remembers each items range after you select it, having to manually set a range on each item is.....frustrating.
No Handlebars.
#17 - 2016-10-12 12:43:28 UTC
The sliders only appear to remember per session. So if you log of, log back on, they are all reset :(
Hard Knocks Citizens
#18 - 2016-10-12 19:13:01 UTC
Please bring back a default drop down timescale that will just automatically set the slider. I personally want to see 3 months, not have drag it close to 3 months for my huge list of items.

An even bigger concern is the color palette. Dim colors on a dark background? Either let us choose the colors, or bring back the old color scheme.
In Tea We Trust
#19 - 2016-10-13 10:40:49 UTC
I don't think anything has been done right on the new market graph.

How did this get to TQ in such a terrible state?
#20 - 2016-10-13 16:58:02 UTC
Cista2 wrote:
Then there is the y-scale of the same graph. Instead of sensible numbers, it consists of seemingly random decimal numbers.
I try to imagine how someone felt this would be appreciated?

Well maybe through bad luck I got some untested code loaded into my client and everything will be fine next time I log in...

Edit: so , here are the values on the y-axis of one item I just looked at:

0,12B
0,12B
0,11B
0,11B
0,10B
96,79M
91,40M
86,01M
80,62M
75,22M etc

What the difference is between 0,11B and 0,11B I dunno, it is quite meaningless to try and read values from such a scale.


Not sure how this number debacle could have made it on TQ. Even if you insist of keeping the bad numeric values at 0,XX and such nonsense, could you at least add one or two spaces between numbers and letters.

I have to lean into the screens every time to check if I assumed (not even read) correctly. Big screens and small fonts (you know, to enjoy space a bit more) really make it quite hard and straining.

I rarely use it, but I find it highly irritating, as well as the missing timescale dropdown which is still in the table version. Most people need to see the past few days for market changes or for long terms for few items, the selective time scale can stay, but please, still keep the previous focus (of last 5 days, last 3 months etc.).

I talked to pro market traders who spent hours adjusting market orders every day and you can guess what they think of it.
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