Wormholes

 
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POS Vs Citadel

Author
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2016-10-03 11:47:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Xen Solarus
So I'm back after a short break (more children!), and am keen to get back into wormhole space. My first gut instinct is to get straight out there and slap down one of those tasty new medium citadels. Twisted

But the question still remains, just how well can these things defend themselves, compared to the large death star POS?

My large tower was even called The Citadel, and I could man the guns considerably across my accounts, and it stood undefeated in over two years of operation. With a full range of guns, ECM out the wazoo and replacements galore, it would have taken an impressive fleet of T3 cruisers to take that C3 wormhole from my grasp. Quite frankly, who could even be bothered with all that hassle?

So, how does the medium citadel compare? I trust there is someone out there who's already gone ahead and taken the risk! Do they still represent a threat against small fleets, or are people refusing to abandon their POS'?

I'm a strong believer that WH space is the last, true bastion for small corps to claim space to call their own. I hope my previous fears that citadels were another step towards the standard alliance - blob - warfest are unfounded.

/Discuss

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  

Zombie Ninja Space Bears
#2 - 2016-10-03 12:57:07 UTC
Citadels IMHO are better than a POS. No need to worry about fuel, better asset security and you get to say when people can shoot at it.

A propperly fitted Citadel will cause a lot of problems to a small fleet, but as always its best to have friends to help out. Please note that these things do NOT defend them selves, YOU have to man the guns and shoot back, the Citadel will not auto agress like a POS.

The big issue for you will be anchoring the thing, make sure you can cover that 15 mins once it onlines.
#3 - 2016-10-03 13:10:31 UTC
Citadels are just so much easier to live out of than a POS. For small groups, having your own, decently sized hangers makes life so much easier for all concerned and not having to hand out critical roles makes for much easier security.

As for defence, well, like almost everything else in EVE, it's easier with friends. An active wormhole that your corp lives in and uses is a safe wormhole. A wormhole that's seldom being used is a very, very vulnerable wormhole.

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L A Z E R H A W K S
#4 - 2016-10-03 13:16:16 UTC
You can also rat with your Citadel if you live in C5/C6 space!

Selling WH CFC Standings 10b/month for +10 with: Lazerhawks, Hard Knocks, Overwatch This, Many Vacancies, Golden Showers, Friendly Probes, Isogen Memed.

Join up for swag C3 Gila/Osprey ratting fleets daily! We also rent C2s out with CV effect!

#5 - 2016-10-03 16:26:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Sonya Corvinus
Just remember the anchoring time is much longer for a citadel (24 hours). They are most vulnerable when coming online, so try and have full hole control for the entire onlining process.
#6 - 2016-10-03 20:59:38 UTC
I just recently moved into WH space, and anchored a citadel of the medium variety.

Living out of a POS was what really kept me out of WH space to begin with, because no. Unlimited hangar storage, and depending on the services you have online, the medium doesn't burn much fuel at all.

My medium in it's current state deals around 1000 dps, can neut to 250km, and I know exactly when it's open to attack.

I haven't had to put it to the test yet, but from what I've read from others citadels can be a tough nut to crack, you really have to **** someone off for them to go through the trouble of taking it down.

Also, there's a few skills that do help with the citadels combat effectiveness.

Structure Electronic Systems

Structure Missile Systems

Structure Engineering Systems

Structure Defensive Systems <----Now changed to Structure Doomsday Operation, which you don't need for a medium.
Caldari State
#7 - 2016-10-04 00:11:47 UTC
Arcelian wrote:
I just recently moved into WH space, and anchored a citadel of the medium variety.

Living out of a POS was what really kept me out of WH space to begin with, because no. Unlimited hangar storage, and depending on the services you have online, the medium doesn't burn much fuel at all.

My medium in it's current state deals around 1000 dps, can neut to 250km, and I know exactly when it's open to attack.

I haven't had to put it to the test yet, but from what I've read from others citadels can be a tough nut to crack, you really have to **** someone off for them to go through the trouble of taking it down.

Also, there's a few skills that do help with the citadels combat effectiveness.

Structure Electronic Systems

Structure Missile Systems

Structure Engineering Systems

Structure Defensive Systems <----Now changed to Structure Doomsday Operation, which you don't need for a medium.


Yous also want to train for fighters.
The Bastion
#8 - 2016-10-04 05:27:10 UTC
aldhura wrote:
Arcelian wrote:
I just recently moved into WH space, and anchored a citadel of the medium variety.

Living out of a POS was what really kept me out of WH space to begin with, because no. Unlimited hangar storage, and depending on the services you have online, the medium doesn't burn much fuel at all.

My medium in it's current state deals around 1000 dps, can neut to 250km, and I know exactly when it's open to attack.

I haven't had to put it to the test yet, but from what I've read from others citadels can be a tough nut to crack, you really have to **** someone off for them to go through the trouble of taking it down.

Also, there's a few skills that do help with the citadels combat effectiveness.

Structure Electronic Systems

Structure Missile Systems

Structure Engineering Systems

Structure Defensive Systems <----Now changed to Structure Doomsday Operation, which you don't need for a medium.


Yous also want to train for fighters.


Thought CCP said fighter skills weren't supposed to affect citadel fighters?
Zombie Ninja Space Bears
#9 - 2016-10-04 08:09:50 UTC
Sheeth Athonille wrote:
Thought CCP said fighter skills weren't supposed to affect citadel fighters?

Correct - you can use T2 fighters from a Citadel without needing the skills.
CeskoSlovenska Aliance
#10 - 2016-10-04 10:09:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Siginek
citadels are cool, but ATM they have some big issues with them ...

1) 24 hour anchoring - unlike pos, anchoring is much longer and also everyone can warp to your citadel from d-scan and see its being anchored ... so its way more riskier to build citadel ... you have to hope that nobody will notice your citadel being anchored for 24 hours - unless you have manpower to deffend it in last 15 minutes of anchoring cycle ...

2) Asset management - many players / alts share many ships and items ... on POSes it was easy because there were shared hangars and basically you could hide only ships you were sitting in ... on citadel where everyone has personal ships and items hangar its very easy to either forget to return ship to shared hangar or if you have someone who want to harm corp he can just take all assets from all corp shared hangars to his own without anybody being able to access it

tl:dr: Citadels look cool, but unless anchoring gets changed they are wild card build for small entities and they also has much worse assets management than POSes
#11 - 2016-10-05 00:58:08 UTC
My biggest dislike of citadels stems from the 1 bil price tag which is comparable to a faction large.

For 1 bil in a large POS - I get 70 million shield hitpoints and if I'm small and can't defend, I put a ton of hardeners on there. No one wants to grind 50-60% resists w/out a cap. **** star, death star... there's just more you can do and you don't have to be on for it to happen. Although it helps.

For a 1 bil citadel - I can take on a 6-8 man gang, less if they bring extra logi, or I'm not focused on ecm/nuets (w/the 600-1k damage I scrape out of it).
#12 - 2016-10-05 10:39:11 UTC
Noxisia Arkana wrote:
My biggest dislike of citadels stems from the 1 bil price tag which is comparable to a faction large.

For 1 bil in a large POS - I get 70 million shield hitpoints and if I'm small and can't defend, I put a ton of hardeners on there. No one wants to grind 50-60% resists w/out a cap. **** star, death star... there's just more you can do and you don't have to be on for it to happen. Although it helps.

For a 1 bil citadel - I can take on a 6-8 man gang, less if they bring extra logi, or I'm not focused on ecm/nuets (w/the 600-1k damage I scrape out of it).



no one wants to shoot an astrahus of a small corp for 3 days not knwoing what's inside. Most of the cita Kills are ancoring Timer Issues.
Flames of Exile
#13 - 2016-10-05 21:24:11 UTC  |  Edited by: PopeUrban
Eikin Skjald wrote:
Noxisia Arkana wrote:
My biggest dislike of citadels stems from the 1 bil price tag which is comparable to a faction large.

For 1 bil in a large POS - I get 70 million shield hitpoints and if I'm small and can't defend, I put a ton of hardeners on there. No one wants to grind 50-60% resists w/out a cap. **** star, death star... there's just more you can do and you don't have to be on for it to happen. Although it helps.

For a 1 bil citadel - I can take on a 6-8 man gang, less if they bring extra logi, or I'm not focused on ecm/nuets (w/the 600-1k damage I scrape out of it).



no one wants to shoot an astrahus of a small corp for 3 days not knwoing what's inside. Most of the cita Kills are ancoring Timer Issues.


This. because of the nature of wspace it can put a serious dent in your operations having to keep active a citadel killing fleet long enough to actually kill it. Wheras a POS can be taken down relatively quickly in less than 48 hours from the attacker's time of choice, a citadel requires the attackers to not only find your citadel, but bow down to your vuln window once they find it for assault times, and then keep the attack fleet in system for the rest of the vuln windows, resullpy it, reship it, etc. For all that effort, there's no reliable guarantee of loot either.

Given the unpredictability of supply and reward, this often translates to fleet logistics very close to what you'd need to properly occup[y the hole in the first place just to take down the citadel, which makes it not worth it to even try unless they really want to keep your hole for themselves.
#14 - 2016-10-06 15:42:00 UTC
Michael1995 wrote:
You can also rat with your Citadel if you live in C5/C6 space!

This sounds interesting
#15 - 2016-10-06 15:43:20 UTC
Sounds like my disdain for citadels is less warranted than I had hoped.
#16 - 2016-10-11 09:09:58 UTC
No sleeper gas reactions, even after the November release . Might be a while until POSes are totally replaced.
#17 - 2017-01-03 03:57:10 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
So I'm back after a short break (more children!), and am keen to get back into wormhole space. My first gut instinct is to get straight out there and slap down one of those tasty new medium citadels. Twisted

But the question still remains, just how well can these things defend themselves, compared to the large death star POS?

My large tower was even called The Citadel, and I could man the guns considerably across my accounts, and it stood undefeated in over two years of operation. With a full range of guns, ECM out the wazoo and replacements galore, it would have taken an impressive fleet of T3 cruisers to take that C3 wormhole from my grasp. Quite frankly, who could even be bothered with all that hassle?

So, how does the medium citadel compare? I trust there is someone out there who's already gone ahead and taken the risk! Do they still represent a threat against small fleets, or are people refusing to abandon their POS'?

I'm a strong believer that WH space is the last, true bastion for small corps to claim space to call their own. I hope my previous fears that citadels were another step towards the standard alliance - blob - warfest are unfounded.

/Discuss



pos are nice for solo or nomadic style game play... day tripping or short trips into whs, for fast up and down protection for short time... which is nice... and sad that its going away.

citadels are nice but require a fleet or corp/alliance to really defend it and run it. Although Im sure many solo players are out there with citadels sitting in it all alone thinking this guy is crazy... lol but for a billion isk risk, and it takes 24 hours to drop... so not so great on the nomadic short protections game play style if you will. at least that is one way I see it.
#18 - 2017-01-04 17:04:52 UTC
Andrew Indy wrote:
No sleeper gas reactions, even after the November release . Might be a while until POSes are totally replaced.


This IMO is one of only 2 downsides of citadels/complexes in wormholes.

The 2nd is fuel cost - our Large Amarr tower runs between 550 and 625 million a month in fuel costs, an Azbel fitted up to do all that our POS can do (minus reactions) will run about 925 to 1 billion a month in fuel costs - that's a 70%+ increase. If your group is small that might be an issue.

The upsides IMO far outweigh the downsides - unlimited storage is the major upside.

A secondary upside is powergrid/CPU. We won't have to be constantly juggling onlining & offlining POS modules because of bandwidth constraints.

Another benefit is unlimited fuel block storage.

Once reactions can be done in a complex, our POS is coming down & the Azbel is going up.

Speed never killed anybody. Stopping suddenly - that's what gets you.

=VX9= Plays EVE and a whole lot more! Check us out at www.vx9.com.

Pandemic Horde
#19 - 2017-01-05 18:07:32 UTC
Yea, Ive never really ventured in WH's until citadels were introduced. Its pretty easy for all players new and old with their assets and organization. Only downside might be with PI and the need to dock versus dropping PI or material into the pos hanger without changing session.
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