Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Implementing Custom SKINs

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Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#1 - 2016-11-04 16:16:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Xideinis
I know this idea has been tossed around quite a bit over the years, and custom ship design is what brought on the SKIN program in the first place.

I think it's time to expand on SKINs a bit more, and make them into a more customization-friendly feature.

Please observe this nifty tool from the Caldari Prime Pony Club

What I'm thinking is something simple in concept. Not sure how simple it would be in implementation but I doubt it would be terribly difficult.


1) Allow players to create a custom SKIN design using a special in-game design tool. It would be similar to the Caldari Prime Pony Club tool.

Once the player is satisfied with their design, the design can be saved to several different locations.

There would be personal SKINs, corporate SKINs, and Alliance SKINs.

Corporate and Alliance SKINs would be accessible in much the same way that anyone in a corporation can access corporate fittings or corporate bookmarks.

The tool would also allow someone to import and export skins so that anyone could view/use a SKIN that someone else has created.


2) In order to use a SKIN, the player would have to purchase a SKIN License from the NEX Store, or from the market for ISK. There would be Six different licenses to cover the different sizes of ships.

Frigate SKIN License
Destroyer SKIN License
Cruiser SKIN License
Battlecruiser SKIN License
Battleship SKIN License
Capital Ship SKIN License


The larger the ship, the more expensive the SKIN license would be in the NEX store or on the game's market

3) Once the player purchases a SKIN license, they use it. A window appears allowing the player to select a SKIN that was created with the SKIN creation tool.

The player selects the SKIN design from categories of Personal SKINs, Corporate SKINs, Alliance SKINs, or NEX SKINs (which would be loaded with the SKIN designs that CCP has already created).

The player selects the desired SKIN and then the SKIN License is used. It then becomes a permanent SKIN in the player's SKIN inventory.


Thoughts?
#2 - 2016-11-04 16:44:13 UTC
Regarding that web page tool, are they selling on offline version, and do I need to just send them all my money or do they also need my firstborn? I don't have a child at the moment so I need 9 months to organize payment.

As far as letting people make skins in games, the usual argument I hear is that it takes away more control from people that want that control, and the worry that player based stuff might end up so much better then the company stuff that the game store stops being used.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.

Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#3 - 2016-11-04 16:55:34 UTC
DSpite Culhach wrote:
Regarding that web page tool, are they selling on offline version, and do I need to just send them all my money or do they also need my firstborn? I don't have a child at the moment so I need 9 months to organize payment.

As far as letting people make skins in games, the usual argument I hear is that it takes away more control from people that want that control, and the worry that player based stuff might end up so much better then the company stuff that the game store stops being used.



Well sure, players would make great stuff, and maybe then no one would want to buy the CCP-designed SKINs. But that's where my idea behind the SKIN Licenses comes in. In order to make a custom SKIN, a license has to be purchased at some point in time from the in-game NEX store.

That way CCP would not lose their income from the SKIN program. In fact, more people would be looking to buy SKINs with AUR because they could have their SKIN be custom.
End of Life
#4 - 2016-11-04 17:27:36 UTC
It's worth watching the Eve Vegas presentations, including the keynote section on SKINs.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#5 - 2016-11-04 17:28:21 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
It's worth watching the Eve Vegas presentations, including the keynote section on SKINs.


I'll do that. Thanks for the heads up.
Evictus.
#6 - 2016-11-04 17:56:02 UTC
The "Upcoming Art & Visual Effects" presentation on Sunday at Eve Vegas introduces new skin technology called Pattern Projection. It starts 1 hour 47 minutes into the stream. https://www.twitch.tv/ccp/v/98036891
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#7 - 2016-11-04 18:12:00 UTC
Do Little wrote:
The "Upcoming Art & Visual Effects" presentation on Sunday at Eve Vegas introduces new skin technology called Pattern Projection. It starts 1 hour 47 minutes into the stream. https://www.twitch.tv/ccp/v/98036891


That's interesting, but that looks like just a new way for CCP to make pre-defined SKINs for players to buy. I want to see a way for players to make custom SKINs.
#8 - 2016-11-05 08:00:29 UTC
any chance we had of custom skins went out the window when CCP started selling theirs. it would of been grate and added a lot to eve but $ comes first for them
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#9 - 2016-11-05 16:11:43 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
any chance we had of custom skins went out the window when CCP started selling theirs. it would of been grate and added a lot to eve but $ comes first for them


With the SKIN license idea, that is the idea that you purchase the license with Aurem like you would with a SKIN these days, the ability for players to create their own custom SKINs is still a very lucrative endeavor for CCP. Probably even more so because a lot more people would buy into them if they could make their own skins.
#10 - 2016-11-05 16:22:25 UTC
so how well do you expect it to go over when CCP tells players they can now pay them to literally make their own content
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#11 - 2016-11-05 18:25:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Xideinis
Lol well, you're paying a subscription to play a game in which you make your own game content, aren't you? Paying for the ability to create custom vanity items is a tiny thing and it's something that would add to the experience of my game.

Right now, you can get the dinky little vanity items that CCP makes. Sure that's cool. The point of that is that CCP is making money off of it. I'm sure to them, that can't and won't change. It's definitely not going to be a free service if that's what you're suggesting.

But I don't see why we can't get more for something that we're already paying for. You can twist it any way you want to, but that's the bottom line. We already have to pay for customizations for our ships. Let's just bring it a step higher and allow players to make their own customizations.
DRONE WALKERS
#12 - 2017-01-11 02:26:40 UTC
I have a variation proposal of this suggested feature.

What if SKIN Licenses were not used to USE a SKIN but to MAKE a SKIN? With your proposal, the process of creating the content is actually free, which would have the "issue" of allowing a flood of new content that will not be free to use, even for the person that made it. What I propose is this:

Every player has free access to the the skin customization tool (that would look something like this, in which he can have all the fun in the world selecting a hull and applying to it a series of customisation options like patterns, colors, logos (only in-game ones, of course, not out of eve stuff like Hello Kitty). WHen he is done, FINALIZING the creation of the SKIN would prompt a cost in AUR. This cost will of course vary depending on the hull, but possibly also depending on the colors or patterns used (some cool colors or cooler effects like gradients might cost more for example). When the player finalizes the SKIN, the relative SKIN object will appear in his inventory in game, or in his redeeming system, whichever is easier. Then, the player may activate the SKIN himself, or sell it on the market, or gift it to someone else, whatever they choose.

During the finalization process, or even during the creation, a chance to "save" the skin project may also be given, so that if someone else is interested in that SKIN, the player who made it may recreate it and put it on the market. Another possibility is that someone at CCP might review all the SKINs players make and select the best ones to put them on the NES, or put every player-made skin on the NES for a short period of time. In this case, maybe the original creator of the SKIN may receive part of the AUR cost people pay for the SKIN, so they also obtain some kind of revenue for their work, but without costing CCP any real money, quite the opposite in fact. This would also allow a successful "SKIN artist" to create more SKINs, or to pay for his game time by purchasing PLEXes (when and if they will become available in the NES).

Corporations and Alliances CEOs and directors may be given the chance to make a few free SKINs available only to their members, or maybe a chance to create for an AUR cost an official pattern that would automatically be applied to all ships, again available for free only to members.
Rate My Ticks
#13 - 2017-01-11 03:05:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Garz
This would be so so simple to implement.
CCP takes notes.
Just sell an item just like you would plex as a "player services" item. Let's call it "custom skin license". This license would then allow the customization for a skin of that given ship of their choice. Maybe even have seperate licenses for different ship classes.

This would not only generate more revenue for the company, but open the door or better said the window to player generated content. All old and new skins released by ccp would still retain value just like the ones do in other games that are made by company of the game. Also some player made skins can be worth quite a bit. But in eve terms it's all isk.

Problem solved.
Rate My Ticks
#14 - 2017-01-11 03:12:42 UTC
Mr Garz wrote:
This would be so so simple to implement.
CCP takes notes.
Just sell an item just like you would plex as a "player services" item. Let's call it "custom skin license". This license would then allow the customization for a skin of that given ship of their choice. Maybe even have seperate licenses for different ship classes.

This would not only generate more revenue for the company, but open the door or better said the window to player generated content. All old and new skins released by ccp would still retain value just like the ones do in other games that are made by company of the game. Also some player made skins can be worth quite a bit. But in eve terms it's all isk.

Problem solved.



Also as a long term projection if player generated content like actual players making and shaping the way eve looks, not only brings a whole new meta into an already super unique game, but saves ccp money and time. Allowing them to.focus more on important issues.

Also this would bolster subscriptions due to the artistic design side of the game being unreal and un- like any other

Like I said a whole new meta.

~Garz
Solitaire.
#15 - 2017-01-11 11:12:22 UTC
We should just be able to customize our ships how ever we want. Racing games have editors and liveries. We should have the same thing and they can limit the shades to avoid bright looking home ships from going around and ruining the atmosphere.

Let's be honest, 90% of the skins suck. Eom used to look cool but now it's ugly. Cold iron is just black, purity is white. There's no imagination in any of the skins and the recent batch of glacial drift skins are the ugliest things I've ever seen in my life. For a game where everything is player made you think the skins would be no different with skilled Photoshop people being able to make their own custom skins and sell them as dealers and do commission work for corps and making cool stuff for them to where as fleets flying Corp colors.
Haven't spent much time looking at non amarr ships but the sea beast and blue tiger and star captain skins are also really bad.
Solitaire.
#16 - 2017-01-11 11:17:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Matthias Ancaladron
Kujo Minowara wrote:
I have a variation proposal of this suggested feature.

What if SKIN Licenses were not used to USE a SKIN but to MAKE a SKIN? With your proposal, the process of creating the content is actually free, which would have the "issue" of allowing a flood of new content that will not be free to use, even for the person that made it. What I propose is this:

Every player has free access to the the skin customization tool (that would look something like this, in which he can have all the fun in the world selecting a hull and applying to it a series of customisation options like patterns, colors, logos (only in-game ones, of course, not out of eve stuff like Hello Kitty). WHen he is done, FINALIZING the creation of the SKIN would prompt a cost in AUR. This cost will of course vary depending on the hull, but possibly also depending on the colors or patterns used (some cool colors or cooler effects like gradients might cost more for example). When the player finalizes the SKIN, the relative SKIN object will appear in his inventory in game, or in his redeeming system, whichever is easier. Then, the player may activate the SKIN himself, or sell it on the market, or gift it to someone else, whatever they choose.

During the finalization process, or even during the creation, a chance to "save" the skin project may also be given, so that if someone else is interested in that SKIN, the player who made it may recreate it and put it on the market. Another possibility is that someone at CCP might review all the SKINs players make and select the best ones to put them on the NES, or put every player-made skin on the NES for a short period of time. In this case, maybe the original creator of the SKIN may receive part of the AUR cost people pay for the SKIN, so they also obtain some kind of revenue for their work, but without costing CCP any real money, quite the opposite in fact. This would also allow a successful "SKIN artist" to create more SKINs, or to pay for his game time by purchasing PLEXes (when and if they will become available in the NES).

Corporations and Alliances CEOs and directors may be given the chance to make a few free SKINs available only to their members, or maybe a chance to create for an AUR cost an official pattern that would automatically be applied to all ships, again available for free only to members.

No thanks that's just gonna be nickel and dining which is already what the autumn store is. There should never be microtransactions in a subscription based game but having a shopping cart feature in effect while making skins for gradients in patterns would essentially be microtransactions within microtransactions.

The base system should be free for everyone, design any skins you want for your own ships. Any license needed should be to put it on in the store for a cut of the profits like you said and sold to other players. Popular skins compete against each other for dominance. If your skin isn't popular it gets knocked out naturally by player selection/flagged by ccp and removed.
Iron Armada
#17 - 2017-01-11 19:31:06 UTC
Reason #1 it won't happen: Time To Penis.

At present TTP is rated at 0.00024 seconds; approximately two one-thousandths of a second for someone to photoshop a human penis onto the Thorax model, or putting labia on an Arbitrator.

So, no.

Not unless there's some sort of competition/vetting process for the skins, which adds a LOT of administrative responsibility onto either CCP or the CSM.

Reason #2 it won't happen: Administration.

See above.
#18 - 2017-01-11 20:16:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Cade Windstalker
Oh man lets see, issues with this:

#1 Copyright. CCP legally can't allow player created content into their game if it violates someone else's copyright, so now they need an entire vetting process for anything anyone designs, or they need to make the entire system very very limited (like, for example, the existing SKINs system?)

#2 Time To Penis. This was brought up by CCP the last time they addressed this, which would be less than 5 minutes from the time a tool like this went live on TQ. Sure vetting things would limit this, but I doubt anyone at CCP wants to stare at **** picks all day.

#3 Server and network overhead. Transmitting completely custom skins would be pretty bandwidth intensive, so either you'd need to make it something like the guns on ships where you only see it if you "Look At" someone's ship, or you need to take a major performance and networking hit to a game that really can't afford it considering who plays it and how (multiboxing, people playing on old machines, large fleet fights, ect)

#4 This is actually harder to do than you think, at least in a way that looks good on every ship you could put a SKIN on. If a player purchases a SKIN and then it doesn't look right on the ship they wanted to use it on (it's warped, the colors are wrong, ect) then they may demand a refund or at least take up time from customer support. It's not even hard to find examples of this in CPPC's skin toy you linked, like putting almost any Amarr skin on a Caldari hull, you end up with something that's mostly using Amarr secondary and tertiary colours because those slots are what Caldari uses for its primary colours. That's why the current SKINs are released per faction.

There are also some lore considerations on CCP's part, apparently not wanting to put one race's colors on another's ships.

So yeah, good sounding idea, waaaaay too many problems.
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2017-01-13 22:23:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Dior Ambraelle
Here is a similar idea from me, I originally posted it about 2 weeks before EVE Vegas.
The texture projection has been figured out since then, so I think it's definitely possible to make it.

If you want an intelligent argument, please do, I'm up for it!

But if you want a trolling contest, I will win it by simply not participating.

#20 - 2017-01-16 07:46:31 UTC
The only real question is how many variants of the 'Hello Kitty' SKIN we'll have to choose from...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

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