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[Ascension] Capital Ship and Upwell Structure Blueprint Adjustments

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C C P Alliance
#1 - 2016-11-08 17:51:20 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Hi folks.

With the upcoming release of Engineering Complexes in Ascension, we're taking the opportunity to look at the build/research/copy times of some of the largest blueprints in EVE. This will help ensure that production rates don't get too out of control with the bonuses on the new structures, and also generally cleans up some of the progression of build times between smaller and larger items.

The current plan is:

  • Titan/Supercarrier blueprints: +100% build/research/copy time
  • Carrier/Dread/Force Aux/Rorqual blueprints: +33% build/research/copy time
  • All Upwell Structure blueprints: +33% build/research/copy time


Shout of the the CSM for helping ensure this stayed on our radar.

Let us know what you think in this thread.
Thanks!

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Mercenary Coalition
#2 - 2016-11-08 18:41:04 UTC
I'm assuming the negative effect on jobs done in POS, NPC stations, and outposts is intended? And if so, why?
Joint Venture Conglomerate
#3 - 2016-11-08 18:43:53 UTC
What happens to already installed jobs?

Fear God and Thread Nought

Pandemic Legion
#4 - 2016-11-08 21:30:03 UTC
Rowells wrote:
I'm assuming the negative effect on jobs done in POS, NPC stations, and outposts is intended? And if so, why?


Pos are going away and the rest can't be killed. The idea behind the new structures is to have stuff to shoot
Pandemic Legion
#5 - 2016-11-08 21:30:54 UTC
Jackie Fisher wrote:
What happens to already installed jobs?



99.999999% Nothing
Pandemic Legion
#6 - 2016-11-08 21:33:10 UTC
Caps should be 50%, maybe 75%

This affects system index as well
Mercenary Coalition
#7 - 2016-11-08 23:41:37 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Rowells wrote:
I'm assuming the negative effect on jobs done in POS, NPC stations, and outposts is intended? And if so, why?


Pos are going away and the rest can't be killed. The idea behind the new structures is to have stuff to shoot

So what's the purpose of needing POSes if they won't be gone for at least another year, or that suddenly NPC stations need this size of a nerf?
#8 - 2016-11-09 06:56:01 UTC
Fozzie,

Is that just the actual hull BPO, or does it include the Capital Construction components BPOs? And freighters do not seem to be impacted.
#9 - 2016-11-09 07:35:02 UTC
Rowells wrote:


Pos are going away and the rest can't be killed. The idea behind the new structures is to have stuff to shoot

So what's the purpose of needing POSes if they won't be gone for at least another year, or that suddenly NPC stations need this size of a nerf?[/quote]

I believe that the whole point was to drive people into Citadels. More things to shoot, more fuel being used so more ice needing to be mined (POS's are not really being considered in balancing since they will go away ).

Also i'm assuming that the long term goal is to start reducing reliance on NPC stations so they can fase those out to (even if just partly.) .
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#10 - 2016-11-09 14:40:22 UTC
ofc, anyone building any of these things in anything except an EC is now screwed.

Lets just say I feel even more incentive to build an EC.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

#11 - 2016-11-09 15:57:31 UTC
Andrew Indy wrote:
Rowells wrote:


Pos are going away and the rest can't be killed. The idea behind the new structures is to have stuff to shoot

So what's the purpose of needing POSes if they won't be gone for at least another year, or that suddenly NPC stations need this size of a nerf?


I believe that the whole point was to drive people into Citadels. More things to shoot, more fuel being used so more ice needing to be mined (POS's are not really being considered in balancing since they will go away ).

Also i'm assuming that the long term goal is to start reducing reliance on NPC stations so they can fase those out to (even if just partly.) .
[/quote]

There is some low hanging fruit in terms of phasing out some NPC stations, like systems with 15 different stations... They should remove/merge some stations a bit unnecessary.
#12 - 2016-11-10 13:18:49 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
...This affects system index as well


System cost index rears its ugly head at every turn when planning EC deployments. It made a little bit of sense to spread industry out when slots were eliminated, and it was workable with relocatable POSes. But it seems to be at odds with the introduction of ECs.

Caladrius Alliance
#13 - 2016-11-10 15:31:53 UTC
I disagree about increasing BPO research time.
Many players started EVE after Crius update are taken pains by overwhelming research time and cost, especially some of the largest blueprints.
Please take care of new players.

Japanese DUST and EVE player.Character name is DJIPS/Tasuku Furukawa.

#14 - 2016-11-11 02:09:11 UTC
Quote:
The current plan is:

Titan/Supercarrier blueprints: +100% build/research/copy time
Carrier/Dread/Force Aux/Rorqual blueprints: +33% build/research/copy time
All Upwell Structure blueprints: +33% build/research/copy time


Shout of the the CSM for helping ensure this stayed on our radar.

Let us know what you think in this thread.
Thanks!

+100%/+33%? Funny, CSM for helping ensure this change?Question
I get the sense someone is lobbying to slow Super & Citadel i smell illuminati in fear. Pirate
Production Revolution to be shared to all of eve, supporting smaller alliances, nah kill em go ahead. Never the less. Roll

BPOs Research time is already to long for larger BPOs, & will stop even some veterans from making effective BPOs within a ONE or COUPLE of YEARS of locked.

Quote:
I disagree about increasing BPO research time.
Many players started EVE after Crius update are taken pains by overwhelming research time and cost, especially some of the largest blueprints.
Please take care of new players.

I agree!!! Attention

*Last note
I sak you all to consider adding tracking management & share features to Blueprint ingame.
I don't mind it being stolen by corp mates. Cool
-It Is really difficult & unintuitive for new players to set up Corporation roles & cans for Sharing BPOs. IdeaIdeaIdea
Badfellas Inc.
#15 - 2016-11-11 13:37:00 UTC
Do we get 10 day leeway on cap and 18 day on super times due to the build times of the complex's?
Pandemic Legion
#16 - 2016-11-11 16:05:55 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Rowells wrote:
I'm assuming the negative effect on jobs done in POS, NPC stations, and outposts is intended? And if so, why?


Pos are going away and the rest can't be killed. The idea behind the new structures is to have stuff to shoot

So what's the purpose of needing POSes if they won't be gone for at least another year, or that suddenly NPC stations need this size of a nerf?



POS won't go away until cyno beacons, jammer and jump bridges are moved to other structures

Outposts can't be planted or upgraded after ascension, i would suspect if EC go well, by next expansion anchoring or science and industry modules will either be restricted or bonuses removed by then as well
Pandemic Legion
#17 - 2016-11-11 16:06:49 UTC
Tasuku Furukawa wrote:
I disagree about increasing BPO research time.
Many players started EVE after Crius update are taken pains by overwhelming research time and cost, especially some of the largest blueprints.
Please take care of new players.



The bonuses afforded by science rigs means the time are reduced IMMENSELY, this just somewhat normalizes them to the max allowed as we are today with a T3 caldari outpost
#18 - 2016-11-11 16:17:22 UTC
increase in manufacturing I can see, but research? for the love of all that is holy and ****, god no. Some of the larger BPO's are already a 6 year+ ordeal, with skills mind you, and you want to make it 12+ years? WHY?

Manufacturing is fine, if anything, research times should be lowered.
Virtus Crusade Protectorate
#19 - 2016-11-11 19:56:14 UTC
MicDeath Titan wrote:
increase in manufacturing I can see, but research? for the love of all that is holy and ****, god no. Some of the larger BPO's are already a 6 year+ ordeal, with skills mind you, and you want to make it 12+ years? WHY?

Manufacturing is fine, if anything, research times should be lowered.


How about some numbers like this player is talking about CCP Fozzie?

Show us in Engineering Citadel with max versus Hisec.

Show us in normal citadel max versus hisec.
Caladrius Alliance
#20 - 2016-11-12 02:09:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tasuku Furukawa
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Tasuku Furukawa wrote:
I disagree about increasing BPO research time.
Many players started EVE after Crius update are taken pains by overwhelming research time and cost, especially some of the largest blueprints.
Please take care of new players.



The bonuses afforded by science rigs means the time are reduced IMMENSELY, this just somewhat normalizes them to the max allowed as we are today with a T3 caldari outpost


I am really happy to reduce research time thanks to ECs and their science rigs. But actually, If this change is applied, required research time is increasing. T3 Caldari outpost TE bonus is 60% and ECs MAX TE bonus is 65.28%, so research time decrease only 13.2% if you prepare BEST environment. +33%/+100% is unadjusted !

Japanese DUST and EVE player.Character name is DJIPS/Tasuku Furukawa.

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