Warfare & Tactics

 
 

Oversized AB Armor Bellicose

Author
Black Thorne Alliance
#1 - 2016-12-17 09:01:36 UTC
High power
4x Light Missile Launcher II

Medium power
1x 100MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
1x Warp Disruptor II
1x Burst Jammer II
2x Target Painter II

Low power
2x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1x 800mm Steel Plates II
1x Reactor Control Unit II

Rig Slot
1x Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
2x Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II


I know you're all thinking WTF!!! But I think it could work.

I'm just wondering if you guys can see this or similar fits actually getting some use.

Yes the oversized AB will make it hard as hell to steer and downgrades you to normal light rather than rapid light missiles but it has decent tank, speed and sig along with 4 Ewar modules and won't need much of the maneuverability that is lost. It is not quite cap stable under the AB but changing out the Trimark with a third Cap rig would accomplish that. Still lots of CPU left too so there's no danger with switching up the Mids for most other ewar.

Then with the drones you could go with Jammers, or maybe web drones or even Hobs. I was even thinking of filling the launchers with auto targeting missiles for both drone defense and limiting distractions from the Ewar purpose since you're really not being counted on for damage anyway..
Bargain Benny
#2 - 2016-12-17 13:18:57 UTC
In what context would you be using this?
Black Thorne Alliance
#3 - 2016-12-17 15:21:18 UTC
Bargain Benny wrote:
In what context would you be using this?


Small gang roam fleet with armor logi
#4 - 2016-12-17 20:50:45 UTC
Thanks, needed a good laugh Big smile Seriously though that whole fit is beyond useless. It's far too slow to get up to speed and piling on more mass by adding a plate is just insult to injury. Leave the burst jammer at home, there's 0% chance you'll get the opportunity to use that responsibly.

For fleet EWAR I'd bring something like this instead:

[Bellicose]

Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Steel Plates II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
Phased Scoped Target Painter
Phased Scoped Target Painter
Phased Scoped Target Painter

Festival Launcher, Copper Firework
Festival Launcher, Copper Firework
Festival Launcher, Copper Firework
Festival Launcher, Copper Firework

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Warrior II x5

Festival launchers because they fit and it will hurt you less than gimping your entire fit and getting turned into rust dust before you can catch a rep. Seriously, you will probably get primaried first so tank is the most important and surviving long enough to provide good TP coverage for your fleet will more than compensate for not bringing DPS yourself.
RvB - RED Federation
#5 - 2016-12-18 22:46:46 UTC
So, firstly on the fit itself. Why would you ever put ecm (which is totally **** on anything that isnt bonused) on a belli, also having a point is totally wasted on a oversized propmod ship, you will never be tackle. Hence go as many painters as you can, which is why you are there anyways.


If anything, a fit would sort of look like:

[Bellicose, 100mn painter]

Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
800mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

100MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Target Painter II
Target Painter II
Target Painter II
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400

[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I


But dont use this, its ****. You arent fast enough to get any meaningfull sig tank going on, you will still die horribly if targeted.



Theres a reason no one uses the belli, the vigil and the hyena do the same in better and saver.


Something like: (rigs can t1ed if you meta the plate)

[Vigil, Vigil fit]

200mm Steel Plates II
Damage Control II

Target Painter II
Target Painter II
Target Painter II
5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400

Auto Targeting System II
[Empty High slot]

Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Particle Dispersion Projector II
Small Ionic Field Projector II



Will be able to sit 106km off the fight, behind your logis and still paint just as well. It does the same while being saver, cheaper and being less threatening on scan.
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2017-01-06 16:46:23 UTC
I understand where you were trying to go with it, but certain modules (such as the previously mention ECM) are useless on ship that dont bonus their effect or effect chance.

Also, a Minnie ship will usually prefer to keep others are range whether in solo or gang, due to relatively low base EHP, which you might think you are fixing with the massive plate and oversized AB, but in reality you are only further maiming yourself, since you will be slower to move than your enemy, and slower than your own fleet... leaving you the prime target for simple elimination.

Keep trying though buddy, this was a good attempt :)
Black Thorne Alliance
#7 - 2017-01-06 18:06:44 UTC
BuntCakez wrote:
I understand where you were trying to go with it, but certain modules (such as the previously mention ECM) are useless on ship that dont bonus their effect or effect chance.

Also, a Minnie ship will usually prefer to keep others are range whether in solo or gang, due to relatively low base EHP, which you might think you are fixing with the massive plate and oversized AB, but in reality you are only further maiming yourself, since you will be slower to move than your enemy, and slower than your own fleet... leaving you the prime target for simple elimination.

Keep trying though buddy, this was a good attempt :)


Yes I agree that the burst jammer was a terrible idea of mine. Replace it with another target painter or a web and the idea might still be workable though. For one thing there are many fleets that use a combination of both MWD and AB ships. Being in a middle ground would not be so bad as it's like being dual prop but with only one module. Another thing, as long as the AB is not running, long align times are not a problem, as it's only decreased due to the armor, and it you're running an armor fleet, it's the same as everyone elses, so keeping up should not really be an issue.

The other modification I would likely make to my posted fit is to use the low cap meta TP and Disruptor modules to make it easier to be cap stable

I understand that there is not too much reason to go to oversized AB though. A straight AB or MWD fit would likely have more resources to play with to apply either better tank or DPS, but due to slot layout and platform ability, this 'Extra' amount is very little, especially for an armor fit. The utility of having a single module work similarly to a dual prop fit can be valuable and worth looking at though, in both being able to re-position and resistant to tackle so I think it could still be a valid choice. This platform gives a cheap, and durable, option that is hard to tackle and can still apply some missile and drone dps while giving painting bonuses, and unlike the vigil, it can afford to stay within the group rather than position itself 50-100km away.

So here is my modified fit.

High Power
4x Light Missile Launcher II

Medium power
1x 100MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
1x J5 Enduring Warp Disruptor
3x Parallel Enduring Target Painter

Low power
1x Damage Control II
1x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1x 800mm Steel Plates II
1x Reactor Control Unit II

Rig Slot
1x Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
2x Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
RvB - RED Federation
#8 - 2017-01-07 07:30:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Kethen T'val
Small gang as in 5-7 ppl?

It is not similar to having dual prop!

Staying at range is how you do it and your defenses will lie in taking out tacklers yourself or just range+speed. Small gang stuff wont alpha you as hard so how about an MAAR? And also for small gang stuff you actually want the RLML your DPS will make a difference but if you see them bringing hard to deal with frig/T3D tackle save your full clip for them!

Range
Speed
Bring your own defenses
#9 - 2017-01-09 15:22:04 UTC
Deckel wrote:
High power
4x Light Missile Launcher II

Medium power
1x 100MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
1x Warp Disruptor II
1x Burst Jammer II
2x Target Painter II

Low power
2x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1x 800mm Steel Plates II
1x Reactor Control Unit II

Rig Slot
1x Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
2x Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II


I know you're all thinking WTF!!! But I think it could work.

I'm just wondering if you guys can see this or similar fits actually getting some use.

Yes the oversized AB will make it hard as hell to steer and downgrades you to normal light rather than rapid light missiles but it has decent tank, speed and sig along with 4 Ewar modules and won't need much of the maneuverability that is lost. It is not quite cap stable under the AB but changing out the Trimark with a third Cap rig would accomplish that. Still lots of CPU left too so there's no danger with switching up the Mids for most other ewar.

Then with the drones you could go with Jammers, or maybe web drones or even Hobs. I was even thinking of filling the launchers with auto targeting missiles for both drone defense and limiting distractions from the Ewar purpose since you're really not being counted on for damage anyway..




I would go as far as to say dont put tackle on an ewar ship that is not it's role and you will be tempted to move into the range of the tackle mod. if your going to do this you might as well do a gimick 500mn one it will move at 7k just don't ever try to turn.
RvB - RED Federation
#10 - 2017-01-09 16:46:10 UTC
Again, the idea doesnt work. And a vigil will do the same thing in way better, and you can actually overporp a vigil if you really want to (see any AT match with a vigil in it for example).
RvB - RED Federation
#11 - 2017-01-09 18:35:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Kethen T'val
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Again, the idea doesnt work. And a vigil will do the same thing in way better, and you can actually overporp a vigil if you really want to (see any AT match with a vigil in it for example).



Very true but I dunno about comparing what happens in the AT to the usual pvp engagements.

A frig such as the Slicer will slap a vigil silly or make it run away. And there are plenty of such frigs that is frequently used in a small gang setting. Bellicose have its uses for sure but a vigil will have an easier time filling its role than what the OP is trying to do with the Bellicose
#12 - 2017-01-10 18:28:57 UTC
Dude, fly what you want. Try it out. Don't just take everybody's word for something and believe it. Try it out for yourself. See if it works or it doesn't work. The more you practice, the more you experiment, the better you're going to get.
Forum Jump