EVE General Discussion

 
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Is the Alpha clone a problem?

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Author
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
#1 - 2017-01-04 00:50:38 UTC
So I was thinking of picking up EVE again after a few months off. The corp got chased out of null sec after someone dropped a catical l in our space and we had no chance against them guys. Dam shame, I was enjoying it out there.

So before I come back, has the Alpha clone thing just made it easier for griefers to pester casual players?

If it is free to create a toon and go mess with people, and that is your thing, it seems like a no brainier.

It almost seems like every time they do an expansion it just makes it easier for the griefers to mess with people.

Anyway, I just thought I would ask.

Thanks,

Iron
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#2 - 2017-01-04 01:22:29 UTC
sot of , they're easy enough to just stand on though
#3 - 2017-01-04 01:26:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Yes and no.

Yes, someone can create an Alpha account and jump into carefree PVP.

No, they cannot log in more than one Alpha at a time, and the Alpha is limited to one race's frigates and cruisers, support skills at 3 or so, T1 weapons only, and a slew of other limitations. So, if you're "griefed" by an Alpha, undock and pop his ass, what are you afraid of a newbie?

That said, there are alpha-only corps and alpha-only roaming fleets.

Game has been made more accessible. PVP is hopefully easier to get into, and rather than harassment, it's more along the lines of industrialist-level (combat) skills vs. newbie combat skills, so it can be a fun fight, or at least "fair".
#4 - 2017-01-04 01:38:12 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Yes and no.

Yes, someone can create an Alpha account and jump into carefree PVP.

No, they cannot log in more than one Alpha at a time, and the Alpha is limited to one race's frigates and cruisers, support skills at 3 or so, T1 weapons only, and a slew of other limitations. So, if you're "griefed" by an Alpha, undock and pop his ass, what are you afraid of a newbie?

That said, there are alpha-only corps and alpha-only roaming fleets.

Game has been made more accessible. PVP is hopefully easier to get into, and rather than harassment, it's more along the lines of industrialist-level (combat) skills vs. newbie combat skills, so it can be a fun fight, or at least "fair".

Pretty much spot on - the limitations make it tough to really take advantage of multiple characters effectively. Maybe it's a problem sometimes but anyone with decent drones should chew through most alphas no problem
#5 - 2017-01-04 01:43:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Maekchu
Griefers? Are we just throwing that term around, when someone comes to take your space? If you can't hold your space, then you are probably not a strong enough entity to hold it. Earn your space.

Alphas aren't a problem for anyone. They addressed the issue with multiboxing.

If you honestly think a toon with mediocre skills, that at max can fly a Gnosis is a threat, then I think you might be playing this game wrong. I'm not saying that Alphas can't PvP, they can still kill stuff. What I'm saying is, that if you get kicked out of your space or harassed by Alpha clones, then you would have been equally harassed by Omega clones. If your alliance can't hold null space, then maybe your alliance need to recruit more players or otherwise improve their gameplan before taking space.

However the problems Alphas have brought, is the amount of entitled whiners on the forums. But it's always entertaining to read, so I don't complain :D
#6 - 2017-01-04 03:28:28 UTC
Alphas are like the bug splats on your car's windshield

@lunettelulu7

#7 - 2017-01-04 03:51:06 UTC
It is only griefing if you let it get to you, in the immortal words of Taylor Swift "Shake it off." If you are just going to let everything get to you, well you are probably better off not coming back. Conflict is the backbone of eve. Everything revolves around the creation and destruction cycle caused by player choices. Perhaps they thought it was their space and you were the one who started pestering them.

and as others are saying alphas have severe limitations, it would be far easier for them to attack you with omega accounts.

@ChainsawPlankto

Caldari State
#8 - 2017-01-04 04:10:18 UTC
Caldari State
#9 - 2017-01-04 10:51:43 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
It is only griefing if you let it get to you, in the immortal words of Taylor Swift "Shake it off." If you are just going to let everything get to you, well you are probably better off not coming back. Conflict is the backbone of eve. Everything revolves around the creation and destruction cycle caused by player choices. Perhaps they thought it was their space and you were the one who started pestering them.

and as others are saying alphas have severe limitations, it would be far easier for them to attack you with omega accounts.


To the extent it's worth trying to define griefing, it's about the intent to have fun at someone else's expense - its not about the effect as such.

Of course such people don't care about consequences. A lot of experienced EVE players can trot out the usual (BS) arguments in favor of this kind of play style. Even more are happy to say things like "if you don't like it, leave".

Treating new players as consumable resources (because griefing does "use up" some of them) is stupid. There's no way to discourage players who really don't care about other people of course, but the others might at least make the effort to understand the messages they thoughtlessly repeat.
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#10 - 2017-01-04 11:09:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Omar Alharazaad
From the wikipedia page for 'Griefer'

'Space sims like Eve Online and Elite: Dangerous have incorporated activities typically considered griefing as part of the gameplay mechanism. Corporate spying, theft, scams, gate-camping, and PVP on non-PVP players are all part of their gaming experience.'


Basically, if it's not an act that breaks the TOS agreement for gameplay, it's generally not griefing. Tired of that word being thrown around so casually to describe anything that causes buttrash.

*mic drop*

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Caldari State
#11 - 2017-01-04 11:46:29 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
From the wikipedia page for 'Griefer'

'Space sims like Eve Online and Elite: Dangerous have incorporated activities typically considered griefing as part of the gameplay mechanism. Corporate spying, theft, scams, gate-camping, and PVP on non-PVP players are all part of their gaming experience.'


Basically, if it's not an act that breaks the TOS agreement for gameplay, it's generally not griefing. Tired of that word being thrown around so casually to describe anything that causes buttrash.

*mic drop*

You can always find a definition that suits you.

This is why I said "To the extent it's worth trying to define griefing"
as the first words of my post.

An observation: people who've been behaving badly their whole lives are by far the best at rationalizing and justifying bad behavior, because they've had so much practice.

Anyway I'm certainly not trying to change your opinion. But there are all kinds of players in EVE - the question is what proportion of them don't think it's a good idea to drive away new players.
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#12 - 2017-01-04 13:08:53 UTC
CCP is pretty harsh when it comes to players they consider to be 'griefing'. Bad things happen to them.

Unfortunately many people come here with the idea that 'griefing' means the same thing here as it does in other games.

It doesn't, plain and simple.

Great strides have been taken over the years to improve the new player experience.
It is currently leap years ahead of what it used to be.
Not kidding, they have made certain systems off limits for nogoodery that targets new players. Nobody is claiming this is a bad thing, either.
Many of the older pilots remember just how godawful it was to start fresh in EVE back in the bad old days.

Now, what happens after one leaves the nest and strikes out on their own is subject to the vagaries of fate. Bad things happen in New Eden, even to good people. Even to new people. Ganking, theft, scamming and goading into a losing battle are all fair play here, even though in other games they most likely would be considered 'griefing'.
Here they are not.

A counter-observation: many of the characters I've encountered in this game who are bloodthirsty pirates, mercenaries, thieves and gankers have, after actually speaking with them, turned out to be pretty decent folks who are just playing the bad guy in the game because it actually lets them for once unlike other games.

I'm not going to tell new players to go back to WoW. Hell, I want them to stay. But, I want them to learn what they are dealing with in all it's magnificent ugly glory and decide for themselves.

They need to understand this world and adapt to live in it, not the other way around.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Stella Nova
#13 - 2017-01-04 13:13:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tialano Utrigas
If you desire Nullsec life then there are plenty of corps you can move to that will allow you to continue your style of play. You can pretty much guarantee that alphas wont throw you out of your space. If your alliance couldn't hold that single system in Wicked Creek then its probably time to move on.

Alphas wont increase griefing as such but it might mean more targets to shoot at or shoot you.
#14 - 2017-01-04 15:42:41 UTC
Nullsec and griefing.. huh. I think CCP's stance is that if you live off nullsec, then you're one of the more battle hardened gamers that could brave on out there. And here you're talking about griefing from alphas? *tilts head sideways* Really?

Even miners being 'griefed' in hisec are supposed to 'move out into another place' before CCP would take action..

I..don't even...

Archiver, Software Developer and Data Slave

Current Project Status: Harvesting Killboards

#15 - 2017-01-04 16:46:03 UTC
Alpha's griefing? I don't think so at all. They make tasty snacks though.

Speed never killed anybody. Stopping suddenly - that's what gets you.

=VX9= Plays EVE and a whole lot more! Check us out at www.vx9.com.

#16 - 2017-01-04 17:33:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Maekchu
Hakawai wrote:
Of course such people don't care about consequences.

But I suppose, you guys don't care about the consequence of your decision to undock? Do you think undocking wouldn't have any consequences in this game?

This point, that assets are destructible and actions have consequences, is the very reason why many people actually enjoy EvE and why it's such a unique game compared to others. The player-driven market would not function without assets leaving the economy and driving demand.

If you don't like people who "grief", then create an alliance that has the goal of fighting these types wherever they go. Try to uphold law and order in New Eden. If you people actually did this, opposed to running to the forums to whine, it would be much more in the spirit of a sandbox game.

Anyway, I'm derailing myself. Just know, that as such we don't have anything opposed to people who don't like to PvP. What we don't like are people running to the forums spouting BS, which basically can be boiled down to "Buhuhu... Someone killed my space pixels. I don't want to lose my space pixels. MAMA SEAGULL! Chris killed my space pixels! Make him stop!"

OP lost some nullsec space. Either he builds up a better alliance and fights back or he just have to accept, that nullsec is not the place for him, unless he rents space or somehow figures out to live there with no ability to actually take it.
#17 - 2017-01-04 17:47:32 UTC
Looks like the real problem, here, is a lack of frilly pink underthings in the NES store.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

#18 - 2017-01-05 09:36:51 UTC
Alpha clones are a problem. They keep picking up all the good women at the bar with their pickup lines. Why do they just have to do that all of the time? Damned alphas.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

#19 - 2017-01-05 09:43:38 UTC
Hakawai wrote:
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
From the wikipedia page for 'Griefer'

'Space sims like Eve Online and Elite: Dangerous have incorporated activities typically considered griefing as part of the gameplay mechanism. Corporate spying, theft, scams, gate-camping, and PVP on non-PVP players are all part of their gaming experience.'


Basically, if it's not an act that breaks the TOS agreement for gameplay, it's generally not griefing. Tired of that word being thrown around so casually to describe anything that causes buttrash.

*mic drop*

You can always find a definition that suits you.

This is why I said "To the extent it's worth trying to define griefing"
as the first words of my post.

An observation: people who've been behaving badly their whole lives are by far the best at rationalizing and justifying bad behavior, because they've had so much practice.

Anyway I'm certainly not trying to change your opinion. But there are all kinds of players in EVE - the question is what proportion of them don't think it's a good idea to drive away new players.


If you're implying that 'griefing' in EVE is only done by people that have behaved badly their whole life, then you are first going to need an objective definition of 'griefing', and not just an opinion, otherwise the correlation itself is also just an opinion, by virtue of its opinion-based premise.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Caldari State
#20 - 2017-01-05 10:21:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakawai
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Hakawai wrote:
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
From the wikipedia page for 'Griefer'

'Space sims like Eve Online and Elite: Dangerous have incorporated activities typically considered griefing as part of the gameplay mechanism. Corporate spying, theft, scams, gate-camping, and PVP on non-PVP players are all part of their gaming experience.'


Basically, if it's not an act that breaks the TOS agreement for gameplay, it's generally not griefing. Tired of that word being thrown around so casually to describe anything that causes buttrash.

*mic drop*

You can always find a definition that suits you.

This is why I said "To the extent it's worth trying to define griefing"
as the first words of my post.

An observation: people who've been behaving badly their whole lives are by far the best at rationalizing and justifying bad behavior, because they've had so much practice.

Anyway I'm certainly not trying to change your opinion. But there are all kinds of players in EVE - the question is what proportion of them don't think it's a good idea to drive away new players.


If you're implying that 'griefing' in EVE is only done by people that have behaved badly their whole life, then you are first going to need an objective definition of 'griefing', and not just an opinion, otherwise the correlation itself is also just an opinion, by virtue of its opinion-based premise.

If you read the first reply to my post you'll have seen why I didn't take the trouble to carefully define "griefing".

The first thing an expert on self-justification does with an exact definition is to search Google for a definition that suits them better, and you're instantly involved in a stupid "dictionary war" which is a moderately effective way to derail a topic. I don't do that.

Fun-vampires know who they are. Their victims know who the vampires are, and why they act as they do.

The facilitators (EVE players who've bought in to the vampires' rationalizations) don't need a definition (still less a dictionary war) to be able to reconsider their position.
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