EVE Fiction

 
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Sci fi versus Sci fact?

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FREE GATES COALITION
#1 - 2017-01-16 16:19:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Xantia Naari
I'm a huge fan of sci fi. Being a science teacher and all I enjoy the imagination about future technology. There is however some things that will be same regardless of what parts or time of space we visit. One of those things are the elements we find on earth will also be found all over space. The minerals that exist will be composed of those elements. The minerals that exist in EVE do not have an equivalent on earth and will never have. What I'm trying to say is that sci fi applies only to what intelligence does with technology. Nature will remain the same.

What if mining instead was based on the periodic table of elements? Minerals in asteroid belts contain minerals rich in Iron, Tungsten, Iridium, Gold, Silver, Platinum, Osmium, Palladium etc. Rarer asteroids could contain some rare earth metals. Gas clouds could contain the nobel gases. Ice could contain half metals and light metals. Alkali metals could be found in sea water from PI. Some of the realy rare stuff could be isotopes that are either natural occurring or produced in factories.

This would be lovely! This would be so awesome and would also be educational and relateable :D

This is after all EVE and not WOW.... This is SCIENCE fiction and not MAGIC fiction XD

There are two kinds of children that play in sandboxes. Those who build castles and those who kick them down. It's a symbiosis.

Phoenix Naval Systems
#2 - 2017-01-16 23:47:05 UTC
Xantia Naari wrote:
I'm a huge fan of sci fi. Being a science teacher and all I enjoy the imagination about future technology. There is however some things that will be same regardless of what parts or time of space we visit. One of those things are the elements we find on earth will also be found all over space. The minerals that exist will be composed of those elements. The minerals that exist in EVE do not have an equivalent on earth and will never have. What I'm trying to say is that sci fi applies only to what intelligence does with technology. Nature will remain the same.

What if mining instead was based on the periodic table of elements? Minerals in asteroid belts contain minerals rich in Iron, Tungsten, Iridium, Gold, Silver, Platinum, Osmium, Palladium etc. Rarer asteroids could contain some rare earth metals. Gas clouds could contain the nobel gases. Ice could contain half metals and light metals. Alkali metals could be found in sea water from PI. Some of the realy rare stuff could be isotopes that are either natural occurring or produced in factories.

This would be lovely! This would be so awesome and would also be educational and relateable :D

This is after all EVE and not WOW.... This is SCIENCE fiction and not MAGIC fiction XD


Do we actually know the chemical composition of New Eden's minerals? All we know are names that have been given to them. Remember New Eden experienced a dark age and science and technology was reborn and thus so were naming conventions.

The only opposition to this I can think of at this stage is Tritanium. The lore stated that it used to be volatile when exposed to an atmosphere.

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind

Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2017-01-17 00:15:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Yebo Lakatosh
Xantia Naari wrote:
This is SCIENCE fiction and not MAGIC fiction XD

You mean the place where celestials are nailed to a spot on their orbits? P

Expecting anything realistic from soft science fiction just diminishes the enjoyment rate. It took me years after Kerbal Space Program to -not- be bothered by all the inaccuracies games and movies have. It's terrible trying to enjoy a story while thoughts keep popping up like "the axial rotation of that planet is way too fast" or "burning that way would result in an escape trajectory, not a landing".

One barely notices magic ship propulsion systems and made up minerals if he's already ignoring just how basic things in the cosmos works.

They say Alpha clones are only for trying stuff. I say it's just the Hard Mode.

#4 - 2017-01-17 10:38:59 UTC
EVE is the greatest sub-marine simulator I know of.
FREE GATES COALITION
#5 - 2017-01-18 15:51:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Xantia Naari
Tavin Aikisen wrote:


Do we actually know the chemical composition of New Eden's minerals? All we know are names that have been given to them. Remember New Eden experienced a dark age and science and technology was reborn and thus so were naming conventions.

The only opposition to this I can think of at this stage is Tritanium. The lore stated that it used to be volatile when exposed to an atmosphere.


No we don't but we would expect them to be composed with the elements we have on earth. We would also expect the most common ones to be like the most common ones we have found impacting earth. i.e. iron asteroids. Thus Iron should replace tritanium, or at least name it Titanium instead of Tritanium...Unless tritanium is an alloy of some sort..in which case it would not lock like a smoky quarts crystal...what ever.
In order to follow the lore, I would keep the names for the common and obvious elements that would not be forgotten. Such as oxygen, carbon, iron etc. The rarer stuff like those rare earth metals could have other names, but keep their abbreviation... For example Lutetium (71Lu) could be named Luminairium instead after the Gallente Luminaire system.

Yebo Lakatosh wrote:

Expecting anything realistic from soft science fiction just diminishes the enjoyment rate


That depends on how it is implemented. I don't think slightly more correct chemistry would harm the joy, but perfectly correct could. My point is, using your analogy with Kerbal Space Program, at the moment the chemistry in game is so bad, the planets would be flat and square if the physics was equally as bad :D

There are two kinds of children that play in sandboxes. Those who build castles and those who kick them down. It's a symbiosis.

Black Thorne Alliance
#6 - 2017-01-18 19:01:56 UTC
While it would make sense to keep the periodic table, that would also mean ratifying fictional industrial processes, components and manufacturing to real-world materials, which would be a huge turn-off for game designers as they would then need to always keep material realism as an aspect of all items in the game, rather than focusing on game balance and functionality.

Personally I think they made the right choice in distancing themselves from real-world materials.
FREE GATES COALITION
#7 - 2017-01-19 12:57:36 UTC
Deckel wrote:
While it would make sense to keep the periodic table, that would also mean ratifying fictional industrial processes, components and manufacturing to real-world materials, which would be a huge turn-off for game designers as they would then need to always keep material realism as an aspect of all items in the game, rather than focusing on game balance and functionality.

Personally I think they made the right choice in distancing themselves from real-world materials.


That is a very good point. I also realized that the effort it would take to change such a thing and then balancing it etc etc etc, would be a nightmare for CCP. It would be a total cascade effect of changes. However, aren't the moon materials various non-fictional elements already?

There are alternative ways to picture the periodic table that would fit the EVE, I guess.
http://www.chemistry-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/mayan.jpg

There are two kinds of children that play in sandboxes. Those who build castles and those who kick them down. It's a symbiosis.

#8 - 2017-01-24 12:03:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
I was always thinking that Tritanium is just Titanium or some alloy of it, but its name was altered thru thousands of years people spend in New Eden. Titanium is very easy to oxidize, and Tritanium is "unstable at certain temperatures" and "corrosive", does that mean it oxidizes easily in some temperatures? Who knows. I find explanations of those things very lackluster in lore and info windows.

Many New Eden physics rules are not represented in game for technical reasons, but planets have to rotate around stars and it must be represented in lore, if not in game. Else it would be really silly if lore would be based on lack of physics rules in the game.
#9 - 2017-02-06 01:50:56 UTC
I'm going to have to disagree with you on the minerals always being the same.

In other regions of space there are other factors involved in how minerals are made that are not present in New Eden. For example minerals in an extremely radioactive environment would interact with other minerals differently when the human touch has been applied.

I have also noticed that many times humans have thought the world around it conformed to a single notion but in reality nature evolves in order to survive. Take the fish that is able to survive in sulfuric acid and boiling temperatures as if the acid was water.

Most of what we understand to be true has been discovered over and over again to be true. The truly amazing discoveries are the finds in little dirty caves that everyone has assumed to conform to a norm.
#10 - 2017-02-06 01:52:20 UTC
Xantia Naari wrote:
Deckel wrote:
While it would make sense to keep the periodic table, that would also mean ratifying fictional industrial processes, components and manufacturing to real-world materials, which would be a huge turn-off for game designers as they would then need to always keep material realism as an aspect of all items in the game, rather than focusing on game balance and functionality.

Personally I think they made the right choice in distancing themselves from real-world materials.


That is a very good point. I also realized that the effort it would take to change such a thing and then balancing it etc etc etc, would be a nightmare for CCP. It would be a total cascade effect of changes. However, aren't the moon materials various non-fictional elements already?

There are alternative ways to picture the periodic table that would fit the EVE, I guess.
http://www.chemistry-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/mayan.jpg



Maybe the Moon materials are in fact real and space aliens gave the materials to CCP to slowly teach humans about them...hey you never know.
Villore Accords
#11 - 2017-02-08 21:18:27 UTC
Cool conversation.

Science fiction is the fictionalization of scientific topics. Good Science Fiction keeps to its story at the expense of real science. Also though Good Science fiction used detail and imagination to explain its fiction. Look at the Mass Effect series, The element Element Zero is the explanation for all of the fictional science that takes place in the world. Look at Star Wars, Jedi use the force not magic even though you could easily classify the force as magic George Lucas named it the force, and gave the reader a way of explaining how the magic is taking place. All of these muggufins allow for easier suspension of disbelief.

The way you can tell how good a science fiction writer is how far they go to make sure there is an explanation for something that is otherwise indescribable. Hey CCP tell me how the warp core works already!
Phoenix Naval Systems
#12 - 2017-02-08 23:37:39 UTC
Tristan Valentina wrote:
Hey CCP tell me how the warp core works already!


Have you read this: https://community.eveonline.com/backstory/scientific-articles/interstellar-traveling/ ?

A bit more focused on jump drives, but it kind of helps explain things. :)

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind

#13 - 2017-02-09 22:22:35 UTC
As a teenage high school nerd that got through Chemistry Honors two years ago with I think either a C+ or B-, I remember it mentioned that Mendeleev left spaces between elements in the periodic table to allow for elements that were yet to be discovered.

That, and the materials we dig up from asteroids are minerals, not necessarily a specific element. In effect, we could be more closely mining a compound such as salt (NaCl, but you already know that). It wouldn't be impossible to think that some of these mineral formations are composed of elements that already exist, but formed and reacted with one another differently due to the environment of space.

That, or I'm talking out my rear, hence C+
Villore Accords
#14 - 2017-02-10 04:58:19 UTC
Tavin Aikisen wrote:


Have you read this: https://community.eveonline.com/backstory/scientific-articles/interstellar-traveling/ ?

A bit more focused on jump drives, but it kind of helps explain things. :)


That is a decent article but I am a super nerd and i demand better!

Do our ships store a solar systems amount of power? Why does it not discharge when we blow up?
Do warp cores allow us to war by using less power? Do we proportionally throw power into the warp core from our capacitors because by doing so the warp core exponentially increase that quick infusion of power?

CCP THE QUESTIONS!!
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2017-02-10 05:19:44 UTC
Tristan Valentina wrote:
Tavin Aikisen wrote:


Have you read this: https://community.eveonline.com/backstory/scientific-articles/interstellar-traveling/ ?

A bit more focused on jump drives, but it kind of helps explain things. :)


That is a decent article but I am a super nerd and i demand better!

Do our ships store a solar systems amount of power? Why does it not discharge when we blow up?
Do warp cores allow us to war by using less power? Do we proportionally throw power into the warp core from our capacitors because by doing so the warp core exponentially increase that quick infusion of power?

CCP THE QUESTIONS!!


First, the Power Grid you saw inside your fitting window are actually 'available power' to be used on modules, after you have deducted all the power required to power up all the essential systems e.g. warp core, engines, rudimentary shield and armour systems, tactical suite. The ship power reactors provide a LOT more power than you see in the PG of your fitting window.

Warp core uses and stores ALOT of power inside them, most of which is spent on containing whatever it was that allows the warp core to function. That is why when there's a reactor failure the ship explodes spectacularly. Even capital ships tend to get totalled by warp core failure. Most of the time when the ship is destroyed, the reactor fails, hence the explosions. The reason why other ships don't die is because their defense systems are just that good.

Capacitors just provide the 'activation energy' needed to kick start any process the ship systems perform to make things happen. 'Activation energy' should be familiar to anyone who knows chemistry.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Villore Accords
#16 - 2017-02-10 17:47:08 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:


First, the Power Grid you saw inside your fitting window are actually 'available power' to be used on modules, after you have deducted all the power required to power up all the essential systems e.g. warp core, engines, rudimentary shield and armour systems, tactical suite. The ship power reactors provide a LOT more power than you see in the PG of your fitting window.

Warp core uses and stores ALOT of power inside them, most of which is spent on containing whatever it was that allows the warp core to function. That is why when there's a reactor failure the ship explodes spectacularly. Even capital ships tend to get totalled by warp core failure. Most of the time when the ship is destroyed, the reactor fails, hence the explosions. The reason why other ships don't die is because their defence systems are just that good.

Capacitors just provide the 'activation energy' needed to kick start any process the ship systems perform to make things happen. 'Activation energy' should be familiar to anyone who knows chemistry.


We have had this conversation before, I have never seen any lore that there is power that we do not have access to in our ship. While obviously systems we do not need to care about, things like life support, and basic movement are filtered out so capsuleers can operate more efficiently. I would also say those systems other then your proposed version of a warp core are very insignificant when compared to the systems we do have direct command over. Also the explosions we see in game are not the size that would happen in the dramatic release of power from something that is literally able to bend space.

We literally rip ships a part with our guns. Down to 0%ing the hull of the enemy. We can only remove a ship from a field of battle by literally ripping it apart. If we dont nanobots can return that ship back to full fighting efficiency and we will have to kill it again. The scraps you see in wrecks I propose is actually a function of New Eden having repair functions that can build a ship back to brand new from a near smoking wreak.


#17 - 2017-02-10 18:15:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Tristan Valentina wrote:
Also the explosions we see in game are not the size that would happen in the dramatic release of power from something that is literally able to bend space.



We dont know efficiency of this instalation and how its build. Its all speculation. Maybe its enough to cause a smaller explosion than you think it would be. Also it could be build to minimize the damages if explosion is inevitable, like with current cars that have bendable, energy harvesting materials in structure.
#18 - 2017-02-10 18:31:46 UTC
Xantia Naari wrote:
I'm a huge fan of sci fi. Being a science teacher and all I enjoy the imagination about future technology. There is however some things that will be same regardless of what parts or time of space we visit. One of those things are the elements we find on earth will also be found all over space. The minerals that exist will be composed of those elements. The minerals that exist in EVE do not have an equivalent on earth and will never have. What I'm trying to say is that sci fi applies only to what intelligence does with technology. Nature will remain the same.

What if mining instead was based on the periodic table of elements? Minerals in asteroid belts contain minerals rich in Iron, Tungsten, Iridium, Gold, Silver, Platinum, Osmium, Palladium etc. Rarer asteroids could contain some rare earth metals. Gas clouds could contain the nobel gases. Ice could contain half metals and light metals. Alkali metals could be found in sea water from PI. Some of the realy rare stuff could be isotopes that are either natural occurring or produced in factories.

This would be lovely! This would be so awesome and would also be educational and relateable :D

This is after all EVE and not WOW.... This is SCIENCE fiction and not MAGIC fiction XD


Mining already is based on the periodic table of elements, just abstraced by gameplay necessity. Lore-wise, the names come from thousands of years of separate history. That's why you get stuff like "Pyerite", with a name so close to something in our world, you can easily see how they got their names, even if it has probably nothing to do with the "Pyrit" we know.

Base metals mined with PI is for example exactly what you describe with sea water and alkali metals. Just that it turns on out you can also find it on planets without oceans.
#19 - 2017-02-12 20:46:10 UTC  |  Edited by: DrysonBennington
Owen Levanth wrote:
Xantia Naari wrote:
I'm a huge fan of sci fi. Being a science teacher and all I enjoy the imagination about future technology. There is however some things that will be same regardless of what parts or time of space we visit. One of those things are the elements we find on earth will also be found all over space. The minerals that exist will be composed of those elements. The minerals that exist in EVE do not have an equivalent on earth and will never have. What I'm trying to say is that sci fi applies only to what intelligence does with technology. Nature will remain the same.

What if mining instead was based on the periodic table of elements? Minerals in asteroid belts contain minerals rich in Iron, Tungsten, Iridium, Gold, Silver, Platinum, Osmium, Palladium etc. Rarer asteroids could contain some rare earth metals. Gas clouds could contain the nobel gases. Ice could contain half metals and light metals. Alkali metals could be found in sea water from PI. Some of the realy rare stuff could be isotopes that are either natural occurring or produced in factories.

This would be lovely! This would be so awesome and would also be educational and relateable :D

This is after all EVE and not WOW.... This is SCIENCE fiction and not MAGIC fiction XD


Mining already is based on the periodic table of elements, just abstraced by gameplay necessity. Lore-wise, the names come from thousands of years of separate history. That's why you get stuff like "Pyerite", with a name so close to something in our world, you can easily see how they got their names, even if it has probably nothing to do with the "Pyrit" we know.

Base metals mined with PI is for example exactly what you describe with sea water and alkali metals. Just that it turns on out you can also find it on planets without oceans.



If all of the elements found on Earth are the same across the Universe then all life forms across the Universe would be comparable to the life found on Earth albeit slightly different due to a planet's gravity if the same elements of Earth are found else where on planets in the Universe.
Black Thorne Alliance
#20 - 2017-02-13 06:08:31 UTC
DrysonBennington wrote:

If all of the elements found on Earth are the same across the Universe then all life forms across the Universe would be comparable to the life found on Earth albeit slightly different due to a planet's gravity if the same elements of Earth are found else where on planets in the Universe.


Individual element similarity and availability is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to interstellar environments. Gravity, radiation, energy availability, planetary stability, dominant compound mixes, and along with competitive development and there could be a good chance that life development in other places would be very foreign. Like humans to deep sea life? Maybe further, maybe closer, but as long as these worlds exist in our Universe with the same laws of physics that we use, they will be made up of the same elements as we have defined upon the Periodic table.
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