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[March] Mobile Warp Disruptor changes

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Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2017-02-21 18:09:49 UTC
A week is still about 6 days too long. Have the timer be low but be able to be refreshed by the person who anchored it re accessing the bubble, like a secure container in space.
#42 - 2017-02-21 18:12:22 UTC
This looks like a good balqnced change, maybe reduce the materials for building bubbles to lower the price a little?
Northern Coalition.
#43 - 2017-02-21 18:16:20 UTC  |  Edited by: sharpscg
The purpose Warp Disruptors fulfill
Before looking at how to tweak mobile warp disruptors, lets first extablish how they are currently used. I know this is not an complete list, but I am confident to say these two cases cover at least 90% of all deployed bubbles.

1. Gatecamping
Static gatecamps are camps, where the camper has no intention to move. Only a single gate, or a small collection of adjacent gates are camped. The static nature of mobile warp disruptos perfectly assists in this task. A low number of bubbles is deployed for the camp, and protected by players for the duration of the camp. After the camp is over the bubbles are often left behind.

2. Protecting system entrances
An entity might choose to deploy a large amount of bubbles on a gate to protect the local pve operations from intruders. The bubbles are not actively defended, and are meant to stay in space for long periods.

The Gameplay Problem of Warp Disruptors
Being interrupted in travel activities by mobile warp disruptors is not fun. If the bubble is part of an active gate camp, you probably loose your ship, but that is fair game as conter play exists in the form of scouting/intel/etc. If the bubble is not part of an active camp, they are a big annoyance. It takes unnecessary time to fly out of the bubbles. Counter play exists in this situation as well, but is primarily an annoyance instead of a fun and engaging gameplay aspect.

The Solution
The solution laid out by Fozzie is obvious: put a decay on the bubbles. This way both of the outlaid uses of warp disruptors are preserved, while limiting the encounters with left behind and long abandoned bubbles. However, I think the proposed decay timers are not enough. A 2 day timer on T1 bubbles is far more then necessary to support gatecamps. I think T1 and T2 bubbles should be cheap deployables for gatecamps, with a decay time similar to the average length of a gate camp. This way, the annoyance caused by landing in abandoned bubbles in busy pipes would be significantly reduced, while not impacting gatecamps negatively.

As for the second use case of bubbling the hell out of ratting pockets, a longer decay time is necessary. I think the syndicate faction bubbles should fill this use case. If you want to be safe while crabbing, you should pay up for these premium bubbles and the safety they provide.

Additionally, I do want to stress that i find the option to scoop bubbles is important. Having that one bubble you put out every time you camp and bring back home after the camp lets you grow attached to that item - definitely more fun than throwing out a new bubble each time. While scooping and redeploying bubbles would introduce the "exploit" of circumventing bubble declay, I do think there is value in this option.


Related note: The cost of syndicate bubbles is ridiculous! At the very fair price of 2k isk/lp for nullsec mission rewards we are looking at well over 100m for a faction large bubble. I think the lp store price should be reduced.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#44 - 2017-02-21 18:16:37 UTC
Icarus Narcissus wrote:
So, a few questions:

1) Will bubbles still be re-scoopable after deployment?

2a) If yes, will their timer reset when they are re-deployed?

2b) If no to either of the previous, will their material costs be changed in any way to account for what will be a major increase in consumption.


Answer to the first two:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Scooping and re-deploying a bubble would reset the decay timer.


Answer to the other one: I hope not! And before people whine that they get less value for ISK, the answer is supply and demand. If you feel bubbles aren't good value for money, don't buy them.

If they generate killmails, decay isn't going to be so much of a problem as most roaming fleets will just clear bubble while their scouts look for real targets.


Also, @nullification. The problem with interceptors like Fozzieclaws isn't nullification, it is nullification coupled with combat capability. If combat interceptors become less powerful against ships bigger than frigates, interceptor fleets are going to lose a lot of their appeal.

http://fr.capstable.net/ - podcast en français sur Eve online.

Pandemic Horde
#45 - 2017-02-21 18:20:05 UTC
Ezio Dicostanzo wrote:
bubbles should be ONE DAY MAX or ratting systems with 354537434 bubbles on the gate are still gonna be a thing :(

Fozzie, what happened to metaballs where intersecting bubbles are merged into one continuous geometry, shown during fanfest 2014 ?


A dev answered this question a few days ago on reddit. This got depraved by CCP as there were heavy performance issues with the way they tried it. It is still on their radar though.
Pandemic Legion
#46 - 2017-02-21 18:21:32 UTC
Mynxee wrote:
I love the killmail generation -- not for the reasons others might, but as a way to gain insight into which of my spacekids might be doing things they shouldn't under our Credo. Big smile So...killmails for ALL the things!

The decay timer is a welcome change just for helping to clear space junk.

As a side note, it is great to see the positive coordination between CSM and CCP these days.


Look at Mynxee spying on the spacekids. Bubbles are just big hug blankets
Badfellas Inc.
#47 - 2017-02-21 18:26:13 UTC
Can't say I like this change... however some suggestions:

Give a bonus to the survival time if anchored in your sov - use the ADM system we've got now, say double the length in ADM 6

Yes that means carebears have better defense, but I dont think its an unreasonable defense.

I don't like the unachour/scoop/reanchour mechanic to reset the timer - could we perhaps reset the timer via entosis?
Federation Uprising
#48 - 2017-02-21 18:36:08 UTC
My only real concern about this is a faction item being a t2 and not t1.

But that is pretty minor.
Goonswarm Federation
#49 - 2017-02-21 18:37:31 UTC
Ashterothi wrote:
My only real concern about this is a faction item being a t2 and not t1.

But that is pretty minor.


Better not look too closely at faction capital guns, then.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

SiXiN
#50 - 2017-02-21 18:46:31 UTC
I have to agree with some of the other posts here, a week is far to long. It should be something like 6 hours for a T1 and 24 hours for a T2 and something like 48 hours for a syndicate.
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2017-02-21 18:47:35 UTC
Very good changes. The times are too long imo, but you can tweak at any time.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Pandemic Legion
#52 - 2017-02-21 18:48:13 UTC
Rainus Max wrote:
Can't say I like this change... however some suggestions:

Give a bonus to the survival time if anchored in your sov - use the ADM system we've got now, say double the length in ADM 6

Yes that means carebears have better defense, but I dont think its an unreasonable defense.

I don't like the unachour/scoop/reanchour mechanic to reset the timer - could we perhaps reset the timer via entosis?


Don't forget, this is an intermediate step until these items become structures. Easy, focused tweaks to existing items. Not a full re-coding that can add a bunch of new features, that would perhaps be possible later. Decay may be one thing, but tying into ADM or entosis is something more suitable for the latter, if we want to see changes anytime soon.
The Watchmen.
#53 - 2017-02-21 18:48:25 UTC
SiXiN wrote:
I have to agree with some of the other posts here, a week is far to long. It should be something like 6 hours for a T1 and 24 hours for a T2 and something like 48 hours for a syndicate.


I think this is where most of the community is wanting the timers. Like he said though, the initial times thrown out are preliminary and will be adjusted as they go.
#54 - 2017-02-21 18:48:53 UTC
I think this change is good and should release in March as described.

If possible, it would be good to do something about eye cancer.
Badfellas Inc.
#55 - 2017-02-21 18:50:51 UTC
I assume with this change, interdiction nullification will be removed too?
Brothers of Tangra
#56 - 2017-02-21 18:51:06 UTC
How about you do the same for cloaking make it use fuel or have a max time on it
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2017-02-21 18:59:06 UTC
Good changes. Bubble life times still seem a bit long. I'd say 12 hours on T1 and 2 days on T2.
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
#58 - 2017-02-21 18:59:29 UTC
I'd suggest lowering the build cost for them if this is going to happen. T2 large can be pretty pricey if you're buying several, replacing them every few days will be expensive.
Badfellas Inc.
#59 - 2017-02-21 19:05:19 UTC
Also thanks for adding in yet another repetitive job into the game....
Shadow Cartel
#60 - 2017-02-21 19:06:20 UTC
still insanely too long. a few hours would be a more sensible return on the investment. if they're going to last for days then they are still a no-brainer thing you have up all the time

it's good that you guys are actually thinking about this stuff though
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