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[March] Balance Tweaks: Focused Warp Scrambling Script

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Rote Kapelle
#21 - 2017-02-23 14:34:35 UTC
As a confirmed HIC and 100mn abuser I can say I like this direction.

That said, few questions.

Will links continue to not effect range?
What is the new cycle time?
Will either of the scripted points keep caps from jumping gates?
#22 - 2017-02-23 14:37:47 UTC
Hans Downherpantz wrote:
brawling dies again


People kite because they don't want to get blobbed to oblivion. It allows them to disengage when the enemy throws a couple of caps after a handful of subcaps.
Northern Coalition.
#23 - 2017-02-23 14:38:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Judy Mikakka
What an awful change, thanks for more awful changes

I can't wait for 6km/s garmus to just own my phobos now while i can't even point it anymore and can't escape it, fab change thanks!!!
#24 - 2017-02-23 14:40:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Scrams not affect afterburners ( propulsion module options ).

Maybe what really needs to be taken into the consideration is why people prefer MWD? Why AB is less desired.
Maybe real fix is in increasing cap usage of the MWD so you cannot perma run it without any cap related fit modifications.

HIC offered good possibility to fight kite meta - why are you taking this away?
HIC scram range was very important for the fighting the MJD and MJFG meta - now like every thing is jumping.

I like current HIC for the ability to say - if you want to fight - fight not run.

This will be bad change.
LowSechnaya Sholupen
#25 - 2017-02-23 14:41:47 UTC
so, in fleet fights hic is no more needed, because its useless, proteus could do more and logistics can heal it..
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2017-02-23 14:42:06 UTC
Those who say this only nerfs brawlers are delusional.
Kiters tend to bring their own HICs to shut down anyone who gets near their ships so this also nerfs antibrawling kiter tactics :D
20km scram is still a lot further than an officer scram for a lot less of the price so it's still useful.

I like overheating -> More range.
The-Culture
#27 - 2017-02-23 14:42:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Bei ArtJay
Cool change! Will encourage more skirmishing without 100mn again which is good, however I think the people who use them in fleet fights with supers have a point.

I think that given the number of sirens on grid in your average cap brawl now, and the fact you can now point supers/titans with ceptors and such, and now tackle rorquals, HIC's feel like they have lost a little too much of their specialty.

I think allowing them to receive reps all the time might not be such a bad idea these days?
#28 - 2017-02-23 14:50:38 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:


I like current HIC for the ability to say - if you want to die to my awful blob of F1 monkeys - die not fight.



Fixed
Jump Drive Appreciation Alliance
#29 - 2017-02-23 14:52:29 UTC
Mizhir wrote:
Hans Downherpantz wrote:
brawling dies again


People kite because they don't want to get blobbed to oblivion. It allows them to disengage when the enemy throws a couple of caps after a handful of subcaps.

Increasingly relevant when the build cost of supers has decreased 4b in the last month (and will likely drop another 4b) - https://i.imgur.com/d2aupwN.png

Spot the date of the rorqual change - https://i.imgur.com/FfWruzm.png


Henry Plantgenet wrote:
Those who say this only nerfs brawlers are delusional.

Indeed, but not for the reason you suggest. If you kite you can position yourself properly on grid. Most people have no idea how to do this, and we'll pick off half of their fleet. Hics are slow and cannot keep up with most ships, they usually get left behind. Either that or we'll just overprop and ignore them completely.

Brawlers on the other hand? You had no hope of escaping a hic. They simply shut you down out of heavy neut range, out of web/grapple range, no ability to mjd and usually unable to apply damage to them effectively at that range. You would never catch them.

This change helps brawling quite a bit. HICs will now be in heavy neut and extreme grapple range while scramming you rather than completely out of danger. 10/10.
Interhole Revenue Service
#30 - 2017-02-23 14:54:12 UTC
Ted McManfist wrote:
Did the 5,000 m/sec kiting people cry too loud?

I wouldn't be surprised if they did Lol

CCP Larrikin wrote:
Jay Amazingness wrote:
Saeka Tyr wrote:
at least let us overheat for range

due to the longer cycle time this isn't such a bad idea.



Hrm, I kinda like that idea. Maybe :)

do it. there can be no maybe.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#31 - 2017-02-23 14:58:10 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:

WARP DISRUPTION FIELD GENERATORS
The current state of Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators is a little too oppressive, especially to the small gang PvP scene. We'd like to open up propulsion module options.


There are these things called afterburners that you can fit to your ship. They are not effected by scram effects.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

#32 - 2017-02-23 15:03:06 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:

WARP DISRUPTION FIELD GENERATORS
The current state of Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators is a little too oppressive, especially to the small gang PvP scene. We'd like to open up propulsion module options.


There are these things called afterburners that you can fit to your ship. They are not effected by scram effects.

There are these things called Keres/Arazu/Lachesis/Proteus. They are not affected by this nerf.
Caldari State
#33 - 2017-02-23 15:04:08 UTC
Give use a web script and have them both 20% range bonus with overheat then it will be great imo
Circle-Of-Two
#34 - 2017-02-23 15:10:17 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Scrams not affect afterburners ( propulsion module options ).

Maybe what really needs to be taken into the consideration is why people prefer MWD? Why AB is less desired.
Maybe real fix is in increasing cap usage of the MWD so you cannot perma run it without any cap related fit modifications.

HIC offered good possibility to fight kite meta - why are you taking this away?
HIC scram range was very important for the fighting the MJD and MJFG meta - now like every thing is jumping.

I like current HIC for the ability to say - if you want to fight - fight not run.

This will be bad change.


I agree 100%.

CCP can you go one day this week without being complete idiots?
First the alliance name changes and now this garbage?

You're making it really easy to play other games besides Eve.

Please hire some developers that either play the game or stop making changes that some tiny minority in eve complains about; this constant slew of crap from you people is beyond irritating.

Your customer service and development is starting to take a 2008 swing; fix it.


Lucian James
The Tuskers Co.
#35 - 2017-02-23 15:10:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Longdrinks
good change, hics as they are now are way too strong and easy to use for noobs.
Circle-Of-Two
#36 - 2017-02-23 15:11:32 UTC
I was just told:

This was, apparently, requested by Mr Hyde of CSM and Youtube fame


So you are making a game-wide huge nerf for one whiny caster and CSM rep?

How terrible are you people.
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2017-02-23 15:12:46 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:

WARP DISRUPTION FIELD GENERATORS
The current state of Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators is a little too oppressive, especially to the small gang PvP scene. We'd like to open up propulsion module options.


There are these things called afterburners that you can fit to your ship. They are not effected by scram effects.


Do you even know how terrible an AB is on a battleship that isnt a NM? It is not a counter like you think it is. Also, this makes MJD escape from a gatecamp possible again as a single HIC cant lockdown the entire area around a gate like it used to.

I fly mainly brawly BS, an AB does nothing. MJD is your savior, and 1 HIC that has 100k EHP that is outside heavy neut range was OP. Want to scram me? Commit, and dont be a pansy kiting (the very thing everyone is bitching about with this change) at 35km with an unnuetable, tanky and risk free way to farm kills.

That being said, i will miss abusing my kite fit, heavy beam devoter. RIP
C C P Alliance
#38 - 2017-02-23 15:20:02 UTC
Helsir Qyrdun wrote:
As a confirmed HIC and 100mn abuser I can say I like this direction.

That said, few questions.

Will links continue to not effect range?

Correct, Command Bursts will not effect the range of scripted Warp Disrupt Field Generators

Helsir Qyrdun wrote:
What is the new cycle time?

The cycle time hasn't changed. The new scrambling script has the same cycle time as the disruption script.

Helsir Qyrdun wrote:
Will either of the scripted points keep caps from jumping gates?

Yes, both the scrambling script and disruption script will stop capitals from jumping gates.

Good questions! Added to the Q&A.


Bei ArtJay wrote:
Cool change! Will encourage more skirmishing without 100mn again which is good, however I think the people who use them in fleet fights with supers have a point.

I think that given the number of sirens on grid in your average cap brawl now, and the fact you can now point supers/titans with ceptors and such, and now tackle rorquals, HIC's feel like they have lost a little too much of their specialty.

I think allowing them to receive reps all the time might not be such a bad idea these days?


This is an interesting point. It would be possible to give 50% impedance to remote reps or something like that too. But I don't think that really addresses your core point about specialty. This is something I'd like to look at again in the future.

Game Designer | Team Phenomenon | https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin

WAFFLES.
#39 - 2017-02-23 15:23:53 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:

WARP DISRUPTION FIELD GENERATORS
The current state of Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators is a little too oppressive, especially to the small gang PvP scene. We'd like to open up propulsion module options.


There are these things called afterburners that you can fit to your ship. They are not effected by scram effects.



Thanks for that, was about to ask Larrikin if he doesn´t know about ABs but you beat me to it.



Soldarius wrote:
[quote=CCP Larrikin]
WARP DISRUPTION FIELD GENERATORS
The current state of Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators is a little too oppressive, especially to the small gang PvP scene. We'd like to open up propulsion module options.


Can you please give some arguments? You know, these things educated people use to make a point.
Over the past year I have heard a lot of small gang/solo pilots complaining about HiC points but not a single one of them could actually give me some logical reasoning. They just felt it´s "too strong". So let´s elaborate shall we?

HiCs on gates were brought up a lot of times. Well, I died more to other gate camps than to HiC camps and I don´t see any reason to nerf HiC point because of "gatehate". I hate to die to gatecamps too but in 9/10 cases it´s not the HiCs fault if there even is one.

HiCs in space. Well, you are on some grid with a fleet supported by a HiC or several. So either you run or you have enough to think that it´s fine to fight. I don´t see any reason why someone could not avoid a HiC point in "open space".

HiCs in plexes. Mediums and large plexes are not really the place for "small gangs" except you define small with more than 10 pilots. Again, you can bring your own **** to kill whatever is inside. Or simply avoid them by going into small/novice plexes right?

HiCs in zero-zero. They are strong combined with bubble camps and I guess they harvested too many tears there but guess what? After the change the people who are camping their gates all the time will bring other **** to dismantle your kiting ship.
I rather have a single HiC in a bubble camp than them re thinking how to kill me.

In general, HiC were or currently still are a nice tool in the box to counter MWDs and MJDs in zero-zero and low-sec. In low-sec they are the only relatively tanky option to shut down certain kiting compositions. Arazu is nice but at the end of the day it´s a bloody frigate that won´t survive against some heavier stuff. What else is there? Orthrus? Garmur or even a Barghest?

The HiC to me looked pretty ok. It is a cruiser hull that comes with a medium price tag and a good for some people steep fitting cost and it can be really tanky. It is not fast except you trade your tank for speed and then you´re better off using another hull in most scenarios. So yeh, it has a nasty long infinite scram but it can be avoided relatively easy except you ****** up before and got pinned down by something small and fast that allowed the HiC to get into position. So at the end of the day I don´t see any good reasoning to nerf the HiC point at all. But I am open to good arguments as always. Sadly, as said before, I have heard nothing but "complains" so far when it came to HiC points. And for the record, I hate them too. They are nasty, and make your life hard when you want to run from something but well, so it is. I hate cans in bubblecamps too when I come along with my nullified and cloaked tengu or when I want to get a DST though a bubblecamp and can´t mwd cloak into warp. There are a lot of things that will completely ruin your day when you fly solo or in a small gang but people should not cry all day but improve.
Circle-Of-Two
#40 - 2017-02-23 15:23:57 UTC
After giving the ability to Rorqual to be SuperHictors, and you know retrograte HICs to be **** pointers.

I find the idea absolutely ridiculous.

In my honest opinion, you CCP, better keep proper gamerplay to proper ship types, and the last ship that needs a nerf is a HIC, and the first, is the Rorqual.
So before Nerfing any other ships, nerf rorquals to give them back their natural gameplay, mining.
At the same time, I find this very funny from a Pandemic Legion guy, upgrading Rorquals, and now they don't need HICs anymore, they downgrade them. :)

"My job here is done"

Best Regards,
InSTiiNK Loutte
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