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[March] Rorqual and Mining changes

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My Mom Says Blobbing Is Bad
#41 - 2017-02-23 18:13:46 UTC
DENIED :D

I love it :)
The Initiative.
#42 - 2017-02-23 18:14:33 UTC
Honestly these are terrible changes and once again I shudder at the game design principles you adhere to. Why would you nerf the yield of a ship which is so expensive to field in the first place and introduce other risks which are going to make it so much more vulnerable.

Surely reduced ore respawn rates or dimished resources which would force territorial conflict is a better answer? Instead we're force fed a mind numbing solution to a problem of I don't know what. We want more tools for self reliance and generating conflict, not more agonizing tedium.

What actually is the design problem these changes are meant to resolve?
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2017-02-23 18:16:57 UTC
Ahahaha - ingenious fix to the PANIC problem!
Goonswarm Federation
#44 - 2017-02-23 18:17:04 UTC
Whole lotta folks not twigging to the fact that sieging the rorqual gives you ECM immunity ITT.

I won't comment directly on the nerf, but I do offer this: If the goal here is to help buttress mineral prices, consider taking a look at the mineral basket. (Ask Aryth if you don't understand what this means. Few do.) Decreasing the amount of pyerite and isogen in nullsec anomalies, while increasing mexallon (and to a lesser degree, nocx and mega) will do a lot to help correct the downward trend in minerals.

If you'd like an idea on how mineral prices react in a high-usage market, check the keepstar in 1DQ1-A.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Rejection Of Sovereignty
#45 - 2017-02-23 18:17:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Claevyan
Tribal Trogdor wrote:
Andrew Xadi wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
  • Initial activation of the PANIC module would require the Rorqual to have an active target lock on an asteroid.
!



so if i jam a rorqual, it can't panic, if i catch a rorqual after it killed a belt, it can't panic, why can't you just make it so that you can't panic like 20 min after jumping?


All they need to do is give it the system as the NSA. Cant use ewar while you have it running. Solves the problem, right?...Right?



The Industrial Core that Rorquals use makes it 100% immobile but also immune to Ewar for like 300 seconds. so that is a "decent" way to avoid being ECM'd out of target lock. however, if you are a Rorqual pilot and you have not activated your Indy Core... and a tengu uncloaks next to you your first reaction will probably be to try and warp, or to cyno or to lock the tengu up... something other than activating Indy core.

CSM 12: No Sov. No Agenda. No Promises.

Goonswarm Federation
#46 - 2017-02-23 18:18:06 UTC
So mineral market sucks, let's nerf some ships. :V

What about making changes that would require use of hmmm lets say battleships. I blame the stupid small ship entosis game, overpovered destroyers and unability to force people to engage is mass pvp activites.

Rejoice, we will Burn Jita to the ground, your mineral prices will go up.
Goonswarm Federation
#47 - 2017-02-23 18:18:40 UTC
At the beginning of Roqual dug as much as 4 hulks
It was then nerf by 32%
and now is the nerf by another 25%?

So one rorqual is 2 hulks now
2 hulks - 600 - 700 million
1 rorqual - 12 B

And you do not see the problem ?
Goonswarm Federation
#48 - 2017-02-23 18:19:54 UTC
Well, I lied, I guess I will comment on the nerf: was there a technical challenge involved with giving PANIC the same malus to electronic warfare capacitor usage that Networked Sensor Arrays have, or was it a deliberate decision to not go that route?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Goonswarm Federation
#49 - 2017-02-23 18:19:59 UTC
sigh why do ccp have to show off there most clueless dev yet again?

fozzie, you do know how to do some math?

around 30% reduced income on rorq's with investments being nearly the same as a super carrier.

then you proceed to make them more vunerable at same time

may i suggest doing one change at a time and seeing the impact before showing the utter lack of IQ by forgeting that its a complete ship we look at not just 2 points that they can be used for

solution is disable offensive mods if panic in use or introduce a cooldown on panic of 5-15 mins from jumping
Goonswarm Federation
#50 - 2017-02-23 18:20:02 UTC
ay yo fozzie, you made a lotta dudes booty blasted

CEO of serious space alliance I too am gay, a member of the Memeperium

Northern Coalition.
#51 - 2017-02-23 18:20:59 UTC
Regarding activation of PANIC...I don't recall the indy core giving ewar immunity so does that mean that if a Rorq is jammed they have no way to activate PANIC? That change limits its combat applications but doesn't remove it's usefulness as a jump HIC. IE, can still jump into an anom with veld rocks and tackle something.

So...why not simply change the requirement of PANIC to be disallowed with Entosis link and Heavy warp scramblers equipped. Allows PANIC to be used when moving operations, and removes it's effectiveness as a Jump HIC and heavy entosis.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#52 - 2017-02-23 18:21:00 UTC
so if you get jammed you cant panic? that seems like a poor solution unless you make it so the industrial core makes ECM retardedly ineffective.
Blades of Grass
#53 - 2017-02-23 18:21:19 UTC
So as excavators continue to go up and up in price, we are also going to reduce their value. As it is, a set is what, 8b? And now it has less yield. Increasing the boost, it almost seems you want people to have 15 mining alts in sniffs and really hate the occasional miner who has a rorq and no alts.

And ditto on the jams making the panic module useless. Anyone who hunts rorqs, their job just got much easier.
#54 - 2017-02-23 18:21:37 UTC
Sister Bliss wrote:

Surely reduced ore respawn rates or dimished resources which would force territorial conflict is a better answer? Instead we're force fed a mind numbing solution to a problem of I don't know what. We want more tools for self reliance and generating conflict, not more agonizing tedium.

What actually is the design problem these changes are meant to resolve?


CCP isn't interested in solutions to a problem. At this point i just think they design their game drunk. If the problem with rorquals is the amount that is mined, just time ore anomalies the same as ice belts so you can't infinite mine them. If PANIC tackling things is the problem, change it to you can't use EWAR when you are in PANIC and you can't activate PANIC when ewar modules are active..

There are so many more elegant design solutions than what CCP wants with this, it's painful to see them blundering along.

Baddest poster ever

Goonswarm Federation
#55 - 2017-02-23 18:22:03 UTC
The problem with making panic a "Can't use ECM while active" is you can still jump in, get initial tackle on something THEN hit the PANIC when you go into hull. Then second rorq gets tackle. Rinse repeat.
Goonswarm Federation
#56 - 2017-02-23 18:23:22 UTC
What kind of ass backward method of eliminating battle Rorqual is this? Just remove the eWar capabilities while in PANIC... I swear CCP's logic never ceases to amaze.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#57 - 2017-02-23 18:23:45 UTC
Malkshurr wrote:
At the beginning of Roqual dug as much as 4 hulks
It was then nerf by 32%
and now is the nerf by another 25%?

So one rorqual is 2 hulks now
2 hulks - 600 - 700 million
1 rorqual - 12 B

And you do not see the problem ?


same tbh

like

I can buy a thrasher and it to 250 dps for 10m

But I buy Proteus for 600m and it only do 550 dps????????

cpp plz fix
Goonswarm Federation
#58 - 2017-02-23 18:24:23 UTC
here we go again.. Fozzie is unhappy.. nerf all the things. kill eve some more.. you brought nothing good to the game and I personaly have nothing but hatred for you. I'f I was your superior I'd sack your useless ass and attempt to recoup all the bad mistakes you made and get a real developer to rebuild what was once the only game to play. #RIPEVE #sackfozzie
Pandemic Horde
#59 - 2017-02-23 18:25:15 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
  • Initial activation of the PANIC module would require the Rorqual to have an active target lock on an asteroid.

This feels like a very ill conceived change, completely ignoring how cooperative rorqual mining takes place in nullsec. While I agree with the need to kill the invulnerable capital jump hictor, the change to the P.A.N.I.C. mechanics should be something different.

Right now rorquals often cooperate, both with blue rorquals and subcap mining ships, on clearing out an ore anomaly, allowing them to work together when defending themselves against BLOPs fleets etc. As an ore anomaly is nearly mined out, with this change it will become a race to not become 'that guy', who is the one to pop the last rock. Because - statistically speaking - the last rorqual on the field will be halfway through a siege cycle when the final asteroid is exhausted. This would leave plenty of time for attackers to show up, and now the PANIC module may as well not be fitted.

If no-one wants to be the last rorqual on the field, then they won't be mined out by anything but subcaps, who also no longer benefit from the mining boost and shield reps/drone damage from their rorqual allies.

So no-one, not even subcaps, would want to be left mining the - now even more spread out and harder to defend - last scraps of any given anomaly, making 'rolling' the ore anomalies much more time consuming.

How about not allowing PANIC when you have a weapons timer, and disallow any action causing a weapons timer when PANICed?
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2017-02-23 18:25:54 UTC
Just wanna add my 2 cents.

Am not for a further nerf to the Excavators, but if it must happen, let me point out..

Reducing the cycle time by 50%, thus increasing the amount of time the drones are traveling between roid and rorq, is a nerf in its self.

Adding a reduced yield is a nerf on top of a nerf.

If you must go along these lines, perhaps consider adding more speed to the Excavators to mitigate this fact.

The numbers thrown around of "300 mil an hour" are completely hypothetical. In most cases, Rorqs need to come out of Icore to move closer to the roids as mining any further out that 20km atm is pointless.

I appreciate you need to consider the mineral market, and that the iskper hour is prob not a factor, more so the statistics on the amount of ore mined, but the eve player base consider activities to be worth doing or not by isk per hour, and if you nerf it too much.. Id say alot of people will give up with rorqs entirely.

Please Evemail me if I win.

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