EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Opinion: Stop telling noobs to do the SOE Arc

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#1 - 2017-03-09 20:17:52 UTC
TBH I think this arc is worse gameplay than the career agents, and it's a fairly long slog, so we should probably stop pushing noobs towards it, lest they quit.

I think it's good for other stuff though, grinding standings for market alts, etc. But not "Hey I just finished my career agents, now what should I do?" .... That's just garbage man. :/
#2 - 2017-03-09 20:38:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
We direct newbies towards the SoE arc because A: the rewards for completing it have historically given many an aspiring newbie a good start, and B: parts of it are designed to make newbies think about asking for help, either in game or on the forums.

If people don't want to do it then that's fine, nobody is forcing them to. What do you suggest we point people at instead?

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Gallente Federation
#3 - 2017-03-10 01:57:53 UTC
Based on the NPE and Career Agents, people can be lulled into thinking that they can play Eve like a quest-based MMOG which will reward their questing with "gear". If, at the end of the Career Agents, they're not ready to A) find a corp to join, or B) go forth and Explore, PvP, etc. then the SOE arc may at least help teach them that mission reward loot is practically nonexistent and that gosh, these missions get somewhat tedious, I wonder if there's something more fun I could be doing? :)

But I cant actually remember anyone complaining that they felt the SOE arc wasn't worthwhile after completing it.
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2017-03-10 02:19:46 UTC
Adding to what Jonah Gravenstein said :

Probably the most important aspect of the Lv 1 SoE Epic Arc is that it gives new players time to train up their Core Fitting Skills while deciding on a career path to pursue. Also make some easy ISK as well.

And as Chihuahuaraffe said, I cant actually remember anyone complaining that they felt the SOE arc wasn't worthwhile after completing it.



DMC
#5 - 2017-03-10 03:05:38 UTC
Yeah just send them to Jita to beg for the 20 million they would have gotten from the career agents and SoE arc. Jita's easier, faster, and prepares newbies for the realities of the game a lot better than some epic mission arc.
#6 - 2017-03-10 04:53:27 UTC
The career agents blitz through so much info so fast, players get out of it barely knowing how to move their ship, much less put together a workable loadout. The epic arc reinforces those lessons through repetition. It is a long slog, sure, but you know what else is? Everything. Everything is.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

#7 - 2017-03-10 10:53:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Beta Maoye
SOE arc is much more interesting than grinding standings in stand alone missions. It has story line, consecutive rewards along with the story progression, challenging final boss and nice empire standing boost. It is a mini-game by itself. We don't need complex AI to create interesting PVE content. A good story along with progressive luring rewards is good gaming experience. The most advanced AI today cannot fabric even a simple story. Creativity is a unique gift of mankind.
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2017-03-10 11:15:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Yebo Lakatosh
Dunno. The story of the Arc felt detached from everything I experienced before or after, all I remember of it is the boring legwork and the sub-par rewards.

I'd rater tell them to learn the art of ninja-looting, or exploration.

Or even better, to join someone and socialize.


But it could be worse. You could always suggest the newcomer to go mining in a Ventrue. P

They say Alpha clones are only for trying stuff. I say it's just the Hard Mode.

Caldari State
#9 - 2017-03-10 11:29:21 UTC
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:

But it could be worse. You could always suggest the newcomer to go mining in a Ventrue. P


It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it.

Industry feeds the combat side of the game.
Those ships & modules don't just appear out of thin air.
Someone has to build them.
To build them they need minerals.
And some people actually enjoy it as an activity.


The L1 SoE arc does a couple of important things.
A totally new player will invariably need to ask for help in the later stages.

So showing new players that teamwork & co-operation to accomplish a task .... is a bad thing ??
#10 - 2017-03-10 11:30:51 UTC
I started EVE last year and the SOE arc was fine ISK and NPE wise when I did it for the first time. When I repeated it with an Alpha clone I stopped at the the "next step 20+ jumps away". While it is important to show the newbies around the roaming part could be reduced by a couple of jumps.

Perhaps I will switch to "find a corp OR do the SOE arc" .
Kind of the same topic: Stop telling every newbie to go exploring. Or at least tell them to look for places with low jump numbers. ISK per hour is plain bad if you do it in highsec and WHs connected to populated highsec systems.
#11 - 2017-03-10 13:03:46 UTC
Gregorius Goldstein wrote:

Kind of the same topic: Stop telling every newbie to go exploring. Or at least tell them to look for places with low jump numbers. ISK per hour is plain bad if you do it in highsec and WHs connected to populated highsec systems.

I tell people "find someone who's doing what you want to do and ask if you can join their corp." I tell new players "The point of alpha status is to find adventure, do what you want but mining is really not very adventurous." I tell them to look up the wtd chart. I do tell rookies "the epic arc makes sense after you've finished the career agents to get some practice at the basics, but it involves lots of travel so fly something fast."

I spend a lot of time in Rookie Help when I'm logged in, I feel like I've refined my advice to have lots of depth in short phrases. But that brings up the real secret of the advice that rookies get: almost all of it is from other rookies.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

#12 - 2017-03-10 13:17:50 UTC
mkint wrote:
But that brings up the real secret of the advice that rookies get: almost all of it is from other rookies.


And even if long time player give advice it often does not fit to the situation a new player is in. Like: Train for a Marauder, it's the best PVE ship. That always makes me cringe a bit.
Caldari State
#13 - 2017-03-10 13:44:26 UTC
One thing about the SOE ARC is well worth keeping, though I wish it was "packaged" in a shorter mission sequence:
it contains some "puzzle" missions that requires rookies in Destroyers to custom-fit their ships. Three I can remember clearly:

  • Burning Down the Hive (must fit a decent tank and control your range)
  • Kritsan Parthus (Cap Boosters)
  • Dagan (low tank high dps fit)

There might be a few more, but these are the ones I can remember.

These are very instructive the first time through, because most people don't learn much about fitting ships during the Career Agent missions. A reasonable objective for this is to learn the difference between long- and short-range weapons, and how to speed tank.

The SoE teaches a good range of useful modules, and how to build "functionally-biased" ships (i.e. good at things necessary to the specific task, bad at irrelevant things), and (up to a point) how to choose the right range and movement pattern for a task/ship combination.

It's a shame this has been largely forgotten - a lot of people get boosted through the more instructive missions, and don't learn anything about ship fitting.
#14 - 2017-03-10 14:07:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregorius Goldstein
Overall I think it would be great if the Career Agents and/or SOE arc would give out full fitted ships and would just explain the general concept. Like: This is a sniper fit ship, use it at 50+km, use the MWD do stay away form pirats. Go, go, go..


Hakawai wrote:
One thing about the SOE ARC is well worth keeping, though I wish it was "packaged" in a shorter mission sequence:
it contains some "puzzle" missions that requires rookies in Destroyers to custom-fit their ships. Three I can remember clearly:

  • Burning Down the Hive (must fit a decent tank and control your range)
  • Kritsan Parthus (Cap Boosters)
  • Dagan (low tank high dps fit)

There might be a few more, but these are the ones I can remember.

These are very instructive the first time through, because most people don't learn much about fitting ships during the Career Agent missions. A reasonable objective for this is to learn the difference between long- and short-range weapons, and how to speed tank.

The SoE teaches a good range of useful modules, and how to build "functionally-biased" ships (i.e. good at things necessary to the specific task, bad at irrelevant things), and (up to a point) how to choose the right range and movement pattern for a task/ship combination.

It's a shame this has been largely forgotten - a lot of people get boosted through the more instructive missions, and don't learn anything about ship fitting.
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2017-03-11 04:30:31 UTC
In other MMOs you get something like:

-Character Creation
-Starter Area/Movement and actions tutorial
-Starter Village/initial quests
-Low level map/road to next level
-Starter Town
-etc..

As maps are usually character level 'locked' eg. mobs have 'red/grey' names indicating your level and the mob level difference is too high that it might one-hit you or never give XP altogether, new players _naturally_ start looking for social interaction along the way. When farming and the area is populated, you'll bump into other players gathering their quest items. Low level instance dungeons also come into mind where its usually party based and gives better XP than farming mobs. Then there's the solo specialists that just farm and level up, until he runs into the point where he is forced to party with other players cause the mobs are too difficult to solo and levelling up grinds down to a snail's pace.

In comparison we have:

-Char creation
-NPE
-Old Career agents/Opportunities
-Road to Osmon
-SoE Arc
-??????

Granted, eve isn't the same as other MMO's with all our XPless rats, direct ISK injections and skillqueue timers. After a while, it's easy to take for granted 10M ISK or day long skills.

Another thread of thought about this is the nullsec/hisec divide. Why aren't these noobs in my corp, contributing to my corp wallet/making my corp killboard green? If they won't join me, they might join my enemy. Not blue, shoot it. etc etc. Propaganda.
#16 - 2017-03-11 06:30:14 UTC
Gregorius Goldstein wrote:
When I repeated it with an Alpha clone I stopped at the the "next step 20+ jumps away". While it is important to show the newbies around the roaming part could be reduced by a couple of jumps.


While I am not advocating the SoE arc as "highly recommended" for a new player, it is helpful in learning navigational and rudimentary asset management skills, as well as good to be familiar with to use for faction standing gain/repair. I don't know what the career agents are like now (my most recent NPE was almost 11 years ago), but the SoE arc is pretty easily completed by a character with less than 3m sp, and standing with SoE is never a bad thing, especially if you decide to get into exploration.

Yeah, 20+ jumps can be a pain, but this goes back to asset management; a new player is likely to have to move at least that far, (usually involving low or null sec) when they join a corporation. When I was with Noir. 20+ jumps was the weekly/biweekly redeploy. If you hate moving assets, it is worth finding out early.

As it is repeatable every 3-6 months (not sure on the 'cooldown' time on it), having an idea of how long it is can help you run it for faction standings a lot faster later; a blaster taranis with cargo expanders in the cargo hold can run the entire mission arc very quickly.

The only thing "epic" about the SoE arc is the length and travel time.


Re:
Career agents giving out fully fit ships as a reward.

Seriously? I don't understand how people can have a difficult time figuring out a fit. Ships have specific bonuses towards certain modules or weapon systems; make use of them, if you run out of PG or CPU, make some decisions. Between EFT, PYFA, and the various smart phone applications it is easier than ever to fit ships.

my other nano is a polycarb

Unspoken Alliance.
#17 - 2017-03-11 15:56:35 UTC
I totally agree. It actually caused me to quit when I was new. Only thing that brought me back after a few weeks was something I saw in the trailer about choosing your profession / being a trader and I realized I hadn't tried that yet. I branched out from their and got involved with PVP and different corps etc.

All my fond memories from the first days in EVE come from older players taking time to help me with stuff and/or exploring new parts of the game while bumping into new people with a whole variety of attitudes. All I remember about missioning and "the arc" is that it was a terrible slog with too much boring text, too many boring jumps, and too many boring red +. The rewards were feeble compared to the generosity I'd already experienced from other players.

I wouldn't be surprised to see retention improve if they removed it entirely.

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Titan's Lament

#18 - 2017-03-12 17:12:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Donnachadh
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:
Dunno. The story of the Arc felt detached from everything I experienced before or after, all I remember of it is the boring legwork and the sub-par rewards.

I'd rater tell them to learn the art of ninja-looting, or exploration.

Or even better, to join someone and socialize.


But it could be worse. You could always suggest the newcomer to go mining in a Ventrue. P

The Epic arcs are not supposed to be tied into anything you have done before or will do after. The Epic Arcs are self contained mini stories within the entirety of what EvE is. You see unlike most of those other games you may have played there is no "unifying" story to EvE, there is no common thread that ties all things together in this game other than they all occur within the same single thread gaming universe.

Getting back to your complaints about the SOE Epi Arc, 8 corporation changes in less than 2 months makes me wonder is it really the Arc or is it you? No matter what path you choose in EvE one thing is common, there will be at least as much time spent in boring repetitive activities as there are times of excitement. Your impatience as demonstrated by your corp history and your stated distaste for the Epic Arcs makes me wonder if you have the patience needed to play EvE over the long haul.
#19 - 2017-03-13 01:03:02 UTC
Maybe we should recommend the noobs to do the Angel or Guristas epic arc :D it only requires a good frigate.
#20 - 2017-03-13 09:16:34 UTC
I agree with the OP. The SoE arc seems super ******* boring, and with other, more interesting (but harder) and rewarding activities available, I do not see a reason for people to start on the SoE arc straight after the career agents. The standings boost isn't useful for everyone, and that seems to be the main reward.

I'm not saying that it should not be suggested at all, but it should not be offered as the main "next step" considering how useless (and boring) it might be to a pilot.
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