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Alphas and F2P Have Failed

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#1 - 2017-03-10 16:39:44 UTC
Despite the initial surge in new Alpha players, active player numbers on Tranquility are now almost back to where they were prior to Ascension. There is nothing earth shattering on the horizon and CCP has fired all barrels (SKINs, skill extractors/injectors and F2P). To-date Alphas have't really contributed more than reducing mineral prices, serving as cannon fodder in null fleets and continued thread requests for "moar".

Numbers don't lie so it will be interesting to see how CCP spins this (if they even try to spin it). I'm not sure if the free 30-day trial that was originally in-place was any worse than the current F2P model. One advantage of the free trial is that it gave you unlimited access to the game for a month - which was more than enough time to make a determination.

Rather than continuing to gimp the "Alpha experience" CCP should be looking for ways to incentivize players to subscribe and become Omegas. So here are a few suggestions in no particular order (donning my asbestos suit):

* Remove all the current skill and module restrictions from Alphas save one: reduced skill training time.
* Limit Alphas to high-sec only. No venturing into low-sec, null-sec or wormhole space.
* Move L4 agents, Incursions and ice belts to low-sec. I was vehemently opposed to these ideas originally, but have gradually warmed to the concept (even though it means my own style of play will have to adapt and evolve). In combination with banning the transit and operatipn of supers, this might actually largely fix low-sec.
* Extend a Premium Insurance option to Omegas to cover T2, T3 and Faction ship hulls and ease the transition to low-sec.
* Introduce a new Implant Extractor for Aurum that can only be utilized by Omega characters (use extracts all implants in a clone or corpse).

Comments welcome - discussion appreciated - even flames tolerated.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

#2 - 2017-03-10 16:43:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Soel Reit
EvE is Dying
Soon™


Edit: you want big numbers back?
let the game go back to the true eve!
NO casuals
NO plex

ONLY sub
ONLY nerds and heavy farmer

#SkillsRequired #NoCreditCardAllowed

Cool


Edit2: the competition should be on how much you can do ingame, now how much plex you can buy with money Cool
ChaosTheory.
#3 - 2017-03-10 16:45:07 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Despite the initial surge in new Alpha players, active player numbers on Tranquility are now almost back to where they were prior to Ascension.


The usual suspects will be along shortly to proclaim that EVE is dying and that the only way to save it is to cater to their very specific and very selfish demands (which they will unsuccessfully try to cloak in standard "think of the Children" language).
Warped Intentions
#4 - 2017-03-10 17:01:13 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:

* Limit Alphas to high-sec only. No venturing into low-sec, null-sec or wormhole space.
* Move L4 agents, Incursions and ice belts to low-sec. I was vehemently opposed to these ideas originally, but have gradually warmed to the concept (even though it means my own style of play will have to adapt and evolve). In combination with banning the transit and operation of supers, this might actually largely fix low-sec.


I would support these two ideas.
#5 - 2017-03-10 17:05:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Jenn aSide wrote:
The usual suspects will be along shortly to proclaim that EVE is dying and that the only way to save it is to cater to their very specific and very selfish demands (which they will unsuccessfully try to cloak in standard "think of the Children" language).

EVE has as a point of fact been dying for years - it's just now accelerating past the point of no return. There are far too many players in high-sec, so a kick (rather than nudge) is desperately needed. This only works if low-sec folks have a chance to stand on their own, though - so supers need to go.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

#6 - 2017-03-10 17:18:27 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
The usual suspects will be along shortly to proclaim that EVE is dying and that the only way to save it is to cater to their very specific and very selfish demands (which they will unsuccessfully try to cloak in standard "think of the Children" language).

EVE has as a point of fact been dying for years - it's just now accelerating past the point of no return. There are far too many players in high-sec, so a kick (rather than nudge) is desperately needed. This only works if low-sec folks have a chance to stand on their own, though - so supers need to go.


idk about that.
Many solutions are available to someone that really want stand up to power blocks.

For example starting in some NPC null space, or rent some space to let your corp grow up.
Low Sec is not the place people that get out from HS should go. Specially miners and farmers.
Null sec is way more vast and safer from that point of view.

just becouse people have titans and supers doesn't mean you have no chance.
just play around them and wait for you chance.
(i.e. test and co2 moved way down on the map just becouse atm they are outnumbered with supers and titans. Can't wait to see what will happen when they will have enough capital numbers to stand up against goons, NC and PL. Gotta be Gud)

they have the advantage but it's an advantage that is closing imo.
#7 - 2017-03-10 17:28:16 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:

* Remove all the current skill and module restrictions from Alphas save one: reduced skill training time.


I honestly cannot believe you are serious about this one....say hello to alt-fleet mining skiffs in every system in high sec. Not to mention the ridiculous crash in PI prices. This is just way too exploitable in the worst possible ways.

Quote:
* Limit Alphas to high-sec only. No venturing into low-sec, null-sec or wormhole space.


No, defeats the entire object of a free trial. CCP should be actively encouraging new players into Low/ null sec. Many corps are already doing so. Blocking this and basically tying Alphas to HS only would be utterly against the whole idea of a trial...particularly an EVE trial.

Quote:
* Move L4 agents, Incursions and ice belts to low-sec. I was vehemently opposed to these ideas originally, but have gradually warmed to the concept (even though it means my own style of play will have to adapt and evolve). In combination with banning the transit and operatipn of supers, this might actually largely fix low-sec.


Moving Lvl 4 agents wont work imo (although I'm not against it)...moving all burner missions might be an idea though. Incursions (and lvl 4 missions) just need a lower payout in HS...no need to deprive HS players of "interesting" content, it just shouldn't be ridiculously profitable.
+1 for removing ice belts from HS, but I am heavily biased in this respectBlink (Endurance fanboi reporting for duty o7 )

Quote:
* Extend a Premium Insurance option to Omegas to cover T2, T3 and Faction ship hulls and ease the transition to low-sec.

Personally I'd say no to this. T2 T3 are a risk to fly, and they should remain so. It's part of the fun imo. T1 is an easily ignored loss mail when it pops. T2 and T3 should, where possible, hurt.

Quote:
* Introduce a new Implant Extractor for Aurum that can only be utilized by Omega characters (use extracts all implants in a clone or corpse).

Not sure if this is needed tbh. Might do interesting things to the implant market, or might have no real effect. With jump clones as they are maintaining different implant sets is easy enough...it really depends if CCP want quick-switching of implant sets to be a thing.


#8 - 2017-03-10 17:35:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Torin Corax wrote:
No, defeats the entire object of a free trial. CCP should be actively encouraging new players into Low/ null sec. Many corps are already doing so. Blocking this and basically tying Alphas to HS only would be utterly against the whole idea of a trial...particularly an EVE trial.

Except it's not a free trial anymore - it's an extended state of gameplay. If PvP and exploration is supposed to be the "cool stuff" in EVE then you should have to subscribe for it. I don't see how a mindless legion of Alpha alts is beneficial to the game. At the rate active subscribers keep dropping this is all we're going to end up with...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

#9 - 2017-03-10 18:00:09 UTC
I'm opposed to all of this. People don't quit EVE because it's too safe or whatever. They quit because they've run out of adventures/new experiences that are worthwhile, or achievable goals worth striving for. It's true for rookies and vets alike. Buffing low/breaking high won't make people move to low. It'll make them get a netflix subscription. It will make the experiences appear less worthwhile and goals less achievable. It would cause rapid deflation and greater power imbalances, making the long running and ever increasing nullsec stagnation even worse, driving more vets into other games.

Alphas and F2P have failed because people get started in EVE and have no sense of place or direction. Very few breadcrumbs leading to meaningful adventure. The early impressions are that the PVE is trite, the PVP is inaccessible. The more subtle playstyles are too subtle to even be recognizable to a neophyte. Progressing past rookie is mostly a matter of getting lucky and finding a corp that doesn't suck, which is a terrible business model, but it does reinforce that the game itself is mostly fine but the tools to explore the game are not.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

#10 - 2017-03-10 18:05:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Soel Reit
?????

f2p simply failed becouse they are trying to change a niche game into a main stream game.
Not ever gonna happen.

not with Eve.

i.e.

mkint wrote:

Alphas and F2P have failed because people get started in EVE and have no sense of place or direction. Very few breadcrumbs leading to meaningful adventure. The early impressions are that the PVE is trite, the PVP is inaccessible. The more subtle playstyles are too subtle to even be recognizable to a neophyte. Progressing past rookie is mostly a matter of getting lucky and finding a corp that doesn't suck, which is a terrible business model, but it does reinforce that the game itself is mostly fine but the tools to explore the game are not.


i had the same impressions when i started. But i'm still here.
But 1 out of 10 people that try it remain. (just random numbers Cool don't know the real ones)
Retribution.
#11 - 2017-03-10 18:12:01 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Despite the initial surge in new Alpha players, active player numbers on Tranquility are now almost back to where they were prior to Ascension. There is nothing earth shattering on the horizon and CCP has fired all barrels (SKINs, skill extractors/injectors and F2P). To-date Alphas have't really contributed more than reducing mineral prices, serving as cannon fodder in null fleets and continued thread requests for "moar".

Numbers don't lie so it will be interesting to see how CCP spins this (if they even try to spin it). I'm not sure if the free 30-day trial that was originally in-place was any worse than the current F2P model. One advantage of the free trial is that it gave you unlimited access to the game for a month - which was more than enough time to make a determination.

Rather than continuing to gimp the "Alpha experience" CCP should be looking for ways to incentivize players to subscribe and become Omegas. So here are a few suggestions in no particular order (donning my asbestos suit):

* Remove all the current skill and module restrictions from Alphas save one: reduced skill training time.
* Limit Alphas to high-sec only. No venturing into low-sec, null-sec or wormhole space.
* Move L4 agents, Incursions and ice belts to low-sec. I was vehemently opposed to these ideas originally, but have gradually warmed to the concept (even though it means my own style of play will have to adapt and evolve). In combination with banning the transit and operatipn of supers, this might actually largely fix low-sec.
* Extend a Premium Insurance option to Omegas to cover T2, T3 and Faction ship hulls and ease the transition to low-sec.
* Introduce a new Implant Extractor for Aurum that can only be utilized by Omega characters (use extracts all implants in a clone or corpse).

Comments welcome - discussion appreciated - even flames tolerated.


because the problem isnt free to play its the gameplay itself but ccp just cant and wont and refuse to see it. I wonder how much actual User Research CCP does? and I dont mean listening to the CSM who dont even talk to the players. and I dont mean getting feedback on forums which is mostly vets trying to secure their game, I mean actually get out and speak to players.

for me ill always say these things are problems

Scamming - big problem
Ganking - big problem
Risk vs Reward - CCP have nerfed reward its pathetic. I mean you do a lvl 3 mission and you get literally not much for your efforts
Immersion - the game can be terribly boring, missions are boring, pvp well isnt exactly exciting, there is no life in eve, you only ever see someone at a station or at a gate really, there is nothing in between. Citadels help a little on that but i want to see more life happening.

I would love to see more actual aliens, instead of humanoids. NPCs are just things, there is no reality to them. The NPE was getting somewhere needs to be implemented into missions.

The fact that old alliances have control of everything and always will. Until CCP gives the same opportunities to every new player then nothing will change. There is no way for example that a new person or group will ever get that r64 moon ever. There is no way they will get 0.0 space unless they rent it and pay billions. Eve is controlled by the big entities now.

I honestly believe eve needs another or a few new instances because of this. Some will disagree but I strongly believe it needs it, to give others a chance of the same things.

Recruitment is impossible now, there are literally hundreds of corps recruiting for a small amount of people. which usually go to the big alliances again. Theres a pattern here..... Everything for the new person is consumed by the old of which they can never have. So whats the point playing...

#12 - 2017-03-10 18:16:13 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Torin Corax wrote:
No, defeats the entire object of a free trial. CCP should be actively encouraging new players into Low/ null sec. Many corps are already doing so. Blocking this and basically tying Alphas to HS only would be utterly against the whole idea of a trial...particularly an EVE trial.

Except it's not a free trial anymore - it's an extended state of gameplay. If PvP and exploration is supposed to be the "cool stuff" in EVE then you should have to subscribe for it. I don't see how a mindless legion of Alpha alts is beneficial to the game. At the rate active subscribers keep dropping this is all we're going to end up with...


What you're talking about though is basically a full switch to FTP + premium content.

I've had 10 years to train my main+ alts, I have no (or very little ) important training left. I could play in High sec absolutely free with no need to ever pay CCP a penny ever again.
Of course I'd have to pay to go low/ null......**** that ! But there are certainly a lot of high-sec players who would never need to pay CCP again, as they could go about business as usual with no cost, seriously...you think this is a good idea?

High sec would be Alpha mains as far as the eye could see. Low/ null would be dead as I doubt I'm the only person who would immediately quit the game (outside of HS ganking shenanigans perhaps) simply on principal. You may think I'm over-reacting, and perhaps I am, but I'd definitely be pissed about this if CCP were daft enough to do it.

Free trial > Paid sub and/ or plex works. It's not as broken as people like to make out imo.
#13 - 2017-03-10 18:22:29 UTC
lilol' me wrote:


The fact that old alliances have control of everything and always will. Until CCP gives the same opportunities to every new player then nothing will change. There is no way for example that a new person or group will ever get that r64 moon ever. There is no way they will get 0.0 space unless they rent it and pay billions. Eve is controlled by the big entities now.

I honestly believe eve needs another or a few new instances because of this. Some will disagree but I strongly believe it needs it, to give others a chance of the same things.

Recruitment is impossible now, there are literally hundreds of corps recruiting for a small amount of people. which usually go to the big alliances again. Theres a pattern here..... Everything for the new person is consumed by the old of which they can never have. So whats the point playing...



emh....
- big entities control the game: nothing stop you from doing the same... stop sulking lel PLS really! xD start fighting maybe?
or keep crying on the forum...

- for the recruitment: numbers call for numbers (i.e. twitch streamers)

point in playing is conquer and take away what the old players have lol but hey... don't let me tell you what to do Lol
just reading you writing those things i can understand what sort of leader/recruiter you are..... Blink
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2017-03-10 18:28:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Majuan Shuo
You want more isk from doing garbage tier L3s?

No.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar

Fidelas Constans
#15 - 2017-03-10 18:30:54 UTC
Soel Reit wrote:
lilol' me wrote:


The fact that old alliances have control of everything and always will. Until CCP gives the same opportunities to every new player then nothing will change. There is no way for example that a new person or group will ever get that r64 moon ever. There is no way they will get 0.0 space unless they rent it and pay billions. Eve is controlled by the big entities now.

I honestly believe eve needs another or a few new instances because of this. Some will disagree but I strongly believe it needs it, to give others a chance of the same things.

Recruitment is impossible now, there are literally hundreds of corps recruiting for a small amount of people. which usually go to the big alliances again. Theres a pattern here..... Everything for the new person is consumed by the old of which they can never have. So whats the point playing...



emh....
- big entities control the game: nothing stop you from doing the same... stop sulking lel PLS really! xD start fighting maybe?
or keep crying on the forum...

- for the recruitment: numbers call for numbers (i.e. twitch streamers)

point in playing is conquer and take away what the old players have lol but hey... don't let me tell you what to do Lol
just reading you writing those things i can understand what sort of leader/recruiter you are..... Blink



I have to jump in here because even for me a vet get tired of hearing 'go fight for it, nothing to stop you' New players cannot fight against 500 super caps, or 20000 man coalitions so please stop saying that is rather annoying.

I mean lets talks about Goonswarm couldnt win in the last war and you expect new players to do the same? Really?
What should that new player do? wait 10 years and perhaps have a chance? I guess they can ask nicely right?
#16 - 2017-03-10 18:33:01 UTC
Caldari State
#17 - 2017-03-10 18:34:17 UTC
imho alphas and f2p should be extremely limited as form of "trying out" the game.
#18 - 2017-03-10 18:35:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Soel Reit
Jebidus Skari wrote:
Soel Reit wrote:
lilol' me wrote:


The fact that old alliances have control of everything and always will. Until CCP gives the same opportunities to every new player then nothing will change. There is no way for example that a new person or group will ever get that r64 moon ever. There is no way they will get 0.0 space unless they rent it and pay billions. Eve is controlled by the big entities now.

I honestly believe eve needs another or a few new instances because of this. Some will disagree but I strongly believe it needs it, to give others a chance of the same things.

Recruitment is impossible now, there are literally hundreds of corps recruiting for a small amount of people. which usually go to the big alliances again. Theres a pattern here..... Everything for the new person is consumed by the old of which they can never have. So whats the point playing...



emh....
- big entities control the game: nothing stop you from doing the same... stop sulking lel PLS really! xD start fighting maybe?
or keep crying on the forum...

- for the recruitment: numbers call for numbers (i.e. twitch streamers)

point in playing is conquer and take away what the old players have lol but hey... don't let me tell you what to do Lol
just reading you writing those things i can understand what sort of leader/recruiter you are..... Blink



I have to jump in here because even for me a vet get tired of hearing 'go fight for it, nothing to stop you' New players cannot fight against 500 super caps, or 20000 man coalitions so please stop saying that is rather annoying.

I mean lets talks about Goonswarm couldnt win in the last war and you expect new players to do the same? Really?
What should that new player do? wait 10 years and perhaps have a chance? I guess they can ask nicely right?


that's for sure.
if you lack patience is not my problem!
players today want all ASAP.

get in the right mindset and you can enjoy EvE so much!
the other option is to give up and leave the game... i mean... i'm not here to stop you! can you send me your SP pls?Attention


p.s. they all started at 0 SP like us. and without supers in the hangar! i mean... someone found t2 BPO in the hangar... but that's another story right CCP? Roll
#19 - 2017-03-10 18:45:00 UTC
Jebidus Skari wrote:


I have to jump in here because even for me a vet get tired of hearing 'go fight for it, nothing to stop you' New players cannot fight against 500 super caps, or 20000 man coalitions so please stop saying that is rather annoying.

I mean lets talks about Goonswarm couldnt win in the last war and you expect new players to do the same? Really?
What should that new player do? wait 10 years and perhaps have a chance? I guess they can ask nicely right?


Or, perhaps those new players could actually join an existing null sec alliance and take part in stuff.

What is this argument I see that new players haven't got a chance to topple existing Null sec alliances? Of course not, if Null sec alliances were that easy to topple there would be no point being a null sec alliance.

Everyone was a new player once. You learn, you grow, you make friends. One day you will be the person at the top driving your enemies before you. It takes time, but nothing good ever comes easy. Of course it all depends on whether the player has the skill, knowledge, dedication, charisma and drive it takes to run a large entity....I don't, but then I have little interest in running a 10k+ alliance.
#20 - 2017-03-10 18:46:16 UTC
Soel Reit wrote:
Jebidus Skari wrote:
Soel Reit wrote:
lilol' me wrote:


The fact that old alliances have control of everything and always will. Until CCP gives the same opportunities to every new player then nothing will change. There is no way for example that a new person or group will ever get that r64 moon ever. There is no way they will get 0.0 space unless they rent it and pay billions. Eve is controlled by the big entities now.

I honestly believe eve needs another or a few new instances because of this. Some will disagree but I strongly believe it needs it, to give others a chance of the same things.

Recruitment is impossible now, there are literally hundreds of corps recruiting for a small amount of people. which usually go to the big alliances again. Theres a pattern here..... Everything for the new person is consumed by the old of which they can never have. So whats the point playing...



emh....
- big entities control the game: nothing stop you from doing the same... stop sulking lel PLS really! xD start fighting maybe?
or keep crying on the forum...

- for the recruitment: numbers call for numbers (i.e. twitch streamers)

point in playing is conquer and take away what the old players have lol but hey... don't let me tell you what to do Lol
just reading you writing those things i can understand what sort of leader/recruiter you are..... Blink



I have to jump in here because even for me a vet get tired of hearing 'go fight for it, nothing to stop you' New players cannot fight against 500 super caps, or 20000 man coalitions so please stop saying that is rather annoying.

I mean lets talks about Goonswarm couldnt win in the last war and you expect new players to do the same? Really?
What should that new player do? wait 10 years and perhaps have a chance? I guess they can ask nicely right?


that's for sure.
if you lack patience is not my problem!
players today want all ASAP.

get in the right mindset and you can enjoy EvE so much!
the other option is to give up and leave the game... i mean... i'm not here to stop you! can you send me your SP pls?Attention


p.s. they all started at 0 SP like us. and without supers in the hangar! i mean... someone found t2 BPO in the hangar... but that's another story right CCP? Roll




today you cant even get a sub-cap decent fight without someone, there's always someone escalating and pushing the iwin at caps button. they do this each and every time, matter of fact most of those guys refuse to fight on normal levels unless they outnumber the opposing foe by 75 or more!.
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