EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
 

Black ops+ hauling

Author
CeskoSlovenska Aliance
#1 - 2017-03-14 15:13:26 UTC
Hello there,
I have a question. I start play eve with my girlfriend and i dont know nothing about this game.. so there is my question
I want play with a blackops ships and my gf is interest for the hauling..
so can u give me some start advice ? what shut we start skill etc ? :-) you know smth for first month-two playing.
Thanks u and sorry for my english i hope you can understand :D .-)

The-Culture
#2 - 2017-03-14 16:07:05 UTC
Kinda a vague question as what are your goals to use the black ops why do you want to get into that particular ship. As for hauling what type of haulig does she wish to do frieghter, ship hauling, blockade eunner? To help fice tou better directions we need to know what direction tou wish to go.

Always willing to help all you have to do is ask, though if you're in the other fleet I may not help the way you want. Just a heads up. Pub Channel: Lost Souls Trading Post

#3 - 2017-03-14 16:39:00 UTC
Black ops are an extremely specialist ship. In EVE you don't just pick a ship and say "that's what I'm going to do." It's more a matter of looking at groups, seeing what they are doing, joining in and training into the specialist roles to help the group. I wouldn't call "black ops" a goal, but I would call "finding a group that uses black ops" to be a goal. After all, training skills is just training skills, not really much to it.

As far as mixing black ops and hauling, yes you can bridge a hauler, but it still comes back to "does this work for the group I am a part of?" I've never been part of a group where that was a useful combination, and as far as I understand the tactics, I wouldn't call it "hauling" in an industrial for-profit way that usually gets associated with hauling. More a matter of keeping jump fuel on hand for the fleet. But that still comes back around to the idea that training skills is easy but finding a group to use them with is hard.

What you can do in the mean time, while you're (1)looking for a group, is to (2)get your bomber skills up. There will be a lot of overlap with covops ships, which suggests your most convenient source of (3)income would be exploration. Start (4)spending time in nullsec figuring out how to survive without support. If your girlfriend wants to take on a fleet support role for a blops fleet, probably do the same progression.

If she's looking to do highsec hauling for profit, you may have nearly zero overlap in careers. After she's got established income you could use all your badass covops skills to scout routes for her through null and low, but she should still have her own survival know how.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Shadow Cartel
#4 - 2017-03-14 17:23:47 UTC
What mkint says is partially true.

Black Ops is more a logistical combat role while hauling is more about logistics outside of combat.

Haulers are, by and large, supposed to be protected by others (see: escorts) or avoid danger in the first place.


THAT SAID... there are a few "niche" roles where the two of you may find some synergy on.

- Shadow Hauling: Black Ops ships have the ability to create a "portal" to a friendly ship that has lit a specialized "beacon" (see: cynosaural field).
This allows certain types of ships (see: any ship that can use a Covert-Ops cloak) to literally "teleport" across entire constellations.
The pitfall? This is expensive (there are some fuel costs), requires a fair bit of finesse, and the price of failure is high (see: someone finding you in space and blowing up both of your squishy ninja ships).
You can compensate by moving very high value items.

- Shadow Loot Fairy: Similar to Shadow Hauling, but but with combat.
This requires a whole Black Ops gang to pull off... and the hauler must be able to use a Blockade Runner (see: Tech 2 cloaky hauler).
Essentially, the hauler tags along with the Black Ops gang... supplying fuel, ammo, and loot/equipmemt storage.
The trick is that the hauler has to jump with all the combat ships and into the thick of combat when a Black Ops ship puts up a jump bridge (see: portal). This is because each portal costs fuel and you want to make each jump effieicent.
As a result, the hauler has to be quite good at learning how to GTFO and avoid getting caught.
Working Stiffs
#5 - 2017-03-14 19:50:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Blockade Runners are commonly used to haul jump fuel for Black Ops (isotopes), as well as bombs & torpedoes for Stealth Bombers, and fuel for Covert Cynos (liquid ozone).

That's about the only synergy between the two.

It is typically the job of an alt account, as it has very low activity, requiring little attention.
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2017-03-15 01:48:47 UTC
Lukley Rusin wrote:
i dont know nothing about this game.. so there is my question
I want play with a blackops ships

If you don't know anything about the game then I do not think that you should be setting goals for ships with very limited and specific roles.

Just play the game and try out different things. You will figure out what you like and can focus on more of what you like. It does not do you any good to be hyper focused on a ship class that you don't even know what it does. So just play and have fun and focus more on learning at this point. Your goal for now would be better off being very short term as your tastes will change, pretty much daily at this point.
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2017-03-15 07:07:19 UTC
Hello and welcome to Eve.

There's actually a third aspect for using Black Ops which would incorporate both of the roles already mentioned earlier. Years ago I had this idea for a Low Sec Null Sec Covert Exploration Fleet :


Covert Ops Frigate
This would be the Probe Scout for the fleet checking systems for players and exploration sites. At least 1 per fleet.

Force Recon Cruiser
This would be the Cynosaural candle for the fleet and EWAR provider. At least 2 per fleet.

Black Ops Battleship
This would be the Jump Portal Generator for the fleet and backup DPS. At least 1 per fleet.

T3 Covert Ops Cruiser
This would be the main DPS for the fleet and backup probe scout to help search large areas. At least 2 per fleet.

Stealth Bomber Frigate
This would be the second main DPS for the fleet and backup scout / lookout. At least 3 per fleet.

Blockade Runner
This would be the Supply / Loot Hauler for the fleet and backup lookout. At least 1 per fleet.


All ships have cloak ability allowing them to hide quickly if needed and would act as backup for secondary roles within the fleet. As I said this was just an idea I had years ago which should be refined now due to the addition of SoE covert exploration ships and the ORE covert mining Frigate. Obviously some of the roles within the fleet would be changed if those new ships are in fleet.

Anyway, good luck to you and may you and your GF have a long and rewarding career.



DMC
CeskoSlovenska Aliance
#8 - 2017-03-15 10:50:01 UTC
thank you very much for your answers, I understand that everything is more complicated and you have to try "everything" but is rather a question directed to what to do first 1-3 months in this game so that character development was directed to those two professions .. , my idea was that I would have been such a support to transport the fact that I like the most logical choice came just this combination ... but if this is unrealistic, I'd like to hear your views on what would be the most ideal option .. my girlfriend would rather just made transportation, mining or manufacturing. I would rather have again been such support for helping a "babysitting". thank you so much for your advice! and again I apologize for my English

,
#9 - 2017-03-15 12:26:53 UTC
Lukley Rusin wrote:
thank you very much for your answers, I understand that everything is more complicated and you have to try "everything" but is rather a question directed to what to do first 1-3 months in this game so that character development was directed to those two professions .. , my idea was that I would have been such a support to transport the fact that I like the most logical choice came just this combination ... but if this is unrealistic, I'd like to hear your views on what would be the most ideal option .. my girlfriend would rather just made transportation, mining or manufacturing. I would rather have again been such support for helping a "babysitting". thank you so much for your advice! and again I apologize for my English

,

I'd still suggest the rough outline of my progression:
1) find a corp that can make use of you in the roles you are interested in (cloaky combat)
2) train for the more basic versions of the role you eventually want to fill (i.e. covops as a cloaky scout and bombers as cloaky combat)
3) get working on your income stream (in this case exploration would be most compatible with the roles you want to fill)
4) work on the more specialist know how you'll need (cloaky combat happens almost entirely in nullsec, so knowing the nuances of nullsec would be the most important thing to accelerate how quickly you can contribute there at any level.)

The core of your goal seems to be combining the more intense PVP combat stuff with the more laid back industrial stuff. How well you can get that to overlap would depend on the two of you. If she wants to live in highsec full time and avoid all conflict, you might both be out of luck, limited to sharing chat channels. If she's willing to do her industrial stuff while under constant threat of being blown up, well then you've got more options. Maybe it's time to look at a wtd guide. It doesn't exactly go deep, but it goes broad.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Black Marker
#10 - 2017-03-15 16:00:07 UTC
Lukley Rusin wrote:
but is rather a question directed to what to do first 1-3 months in this game so that character development was directed to those two professions ..

You can get into a stealth bomber in about two months.. Flying Black Ops is a whole different story and you honestly shouldn't consider that without having played EVE at least for 18 months and having gotten a rudimentary understanding of things.

As with Black Ops and hauling, the only thing that "works" there is bridging a blockade runner using the Black Ops. For that you'll have to look into cynosural field mechanics. The only stuff you guys "could" haul that way is low-volume (size) high-value goods and I wouldn't call that a profession.. The people that need to do that stuff do it themselves and don't outsource it.


If you're looking to get into covert ops warfare, a good starting point would be the in-game channel Bombers Bar.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.

#11 - 2017-03-15 16:13:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Keno Skir
Lukley Rusin wrote:
dont know nothing about this game


Triggered so hard right now Pirate

Basically keep asking questions and hassling every player you talk to for tips Pirate

EDIT : The Stealth Bomber idea above is really good advice. It's fairly quick to get into, has LOADS of uses and Frigate 5 will do the world of good for the other frigs you're flying. Having a ship that can warp cloaked early is a massive step up a lot of players miss out on due to grinding for battleships.

DO NOT attempt to fly the stealth bomber before you have skills for the Covert Ops Cloak. Fitting a standard cloak on a covops ship will get you killed and made fun of Pirate
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2017-03-15 16:16:15 UTC
Perhaps the combination that can suit you both, from your second message is:

-Your gf: an industrial career. Many of us have started that way (and many follow it). For that, a good skill route is:

  1. Mining skills (to get a good income base soon)
  2. Specific hauling skills (the so called "Industrial" ships)
  3. Production/trading skills, is she wants to enter into that


-You want to protect those industrial operations, including trips. For that, you should center in:

  1. PVP skills (small and agile ships, like frigates)
  2. Scout skills (to "open the way" to your gf's transports and be sure there is no hostiles). Cloaking ships and agility
  3. After that, bigger ships, to "Intimidate" and prevent atacks (battleships-size). This will help you too in missions, so giving you a good isk rout.


I'm not much into the second part, so I can be wrong in some details.

The "worst" part of this idea is that, being you both complementary, you can't do the same isk-generating tasks together: while she mines you will be doing missions, and so on. But that would be a good complementing team, I think.

Finally, I'm thinking about you both playing only. If you get involved in a bigger corp they can give you more focused advices.

Good luck!
#13 - 2017-03-15 22:01:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Mephiztopheleze
One thing yet to be mentioned is the mechanics of how BLOPS gangs go about their shenanigans.

A bunch of hideously expensive battleships and sundry covert bridgeable ships sit twiddling their thumbs either docked up or cloaked up at a safe waiting for their fleet's Hunters to find something suitable to drop on.

The Hunter role is where all the actual *fun* happens, at least it's the bit I enjoy. You need to scout systems, probe down targets, set bubble traps and pull off all kinds of tricks to catch someone and then needs to stay alive long enough for everyone to get through the cyno. Proteus and Tengu Strategic Cruisers are the ships of choice for this role, note that Prospects and Bombers have been used to great effect by many.

The actual *blops drop* itself, when it finally happens, should be more along the lines of a drive-by firing squad execution style gank than a standup fight. BLOPS battleships have T1 resist profiles to go along with their ISK1b hull pricetags. If you're expecting a standup fight, you should seriously rethink using BLOPS battleships. For this reason, many hunters like to fit a Ship or Cargo Scanner to check for pesky counterdrop potential before burning into scram/web range to get hard tackle and blaze the beacon.

Check out Martino Fabbro's excellent youtube videos. Solo black ops is certainly possible, as you can see, I'd suggest you get some experience with gangs before attempting some of the stunts this guy manages to pull off. Take particular note of how he finds and catches his targets.

This huge disparity in actual *effort* between roles is why most BLOPS groups have an 'All Loot To The Hunter' policy.

As for hauling: Not my area of specialty beyond personal use of an Orca to haul large amounts of gunk for personal consumption. A friend in a webbing ship is not a luxury for ships that can't MWD/Cloak their way through highsec. I'd never fly anything bigger than an Occator through gates without one (a Vigil Navy Issue is almost the perfect ship for this task).

EDIT:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Blockade Runners are commonly used to haul jump fuel for Black Ops (isotopes), as well as bombs & torpedoes for Stealth Bombers, and fuel for Covert Cynos (liquid ozone).

That's about the only synergy between the two.

It is typically the job of an alt account, as it has very low activity, requiring little attention.


It's a pretty powerful synergy nonetheless. Doubly so if your Blockade Runner pilot can light a Covert Cyno.
But yes, it's normally done on an alt account in the background rather than as a *main* activity.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

#14 - 2017-03-15 23:11:48 UTC
Black ops ships are pretty much the last ships besides capitals a new player should be focusing on, they are VERY limited in their use.
Executive Outcomes
#15 - 2017-03-16 13:52:05 UTC
I would consider BLOPs'ing a Blockade Runner around more of a side benefit to BLOPs in general than a main reason to train for it.

You can absolutely use one to get a BR around hostile space, but as has been noted- it's an expensive way to do so. The BLOPs battleship is a long train, really expensive to buy, and you'll also need another account capable of flying a CovOps or Recon and lighting a CovOps cyno. So pretty much three accounts (trained with a bunch of 5-8x skills and flying snowflake ships) to move one hauler.

You'll have to weigh for yourself whether the cargo you are moving is worth all that compared to one of you just scouting ahead, or running much less valuable cargo at a time, or using a hauling service, etc.
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#16 - 2017-03-16 16:27:58 UTC
It depends heavily on what your existing logistical situation is...

Have a single jump between a highsec edge system and your nullsec home? A black ops and a blockade runner gives you your own mini jump freighter at the fraction of the price.

However, in most cases, the combination is only used offensively for sneaky stuff.... Need to drop a POS tower well behind enemy lines so you can store your cap fleet in it but don't have a titan? Black ops bridge.

It's useful if you have a use for it. I use it once every few months, rarely more.
Caldari State
#17 - 2017-03-16 19:43:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Trasch Taranogas
Whooa.

One of the biggest sale pitches is that you can do anything you want in Eve.

Except the things you want.

First 3 months is just being worthless at everything unless you join a corp
and become a flying Kamikaze pilot.

That said, just fly around and have fun dying while trying out different tactics,
missions, regions and occasionally hook up with some other noclues.

YES, go for those covop cloaky hauling ships. Its your time and money.

A good thing is to download some basic skill training programs from different
corps (took mine from Brave Newbies):

https://wiki.braveineve.com/public/dojo/wiki/dojo-skillplans

You can read about skills here:

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/User:Redeemed_souvenir/Skill_Plan

A good site to explore what skills a specific ship needs is here:

https://www.eve-skillplan.net/

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.

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