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Dev blog: Introducing Upwell Refineries

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C C P Alliance
#1 - 2017-03-22 14:59:37 UTC
A set of new Upwell Structures is in the works: Behold the Upwell Refineries!

Refineries will be the premiere structure for resource collection and processing. They have bonuses to reprocessing and the exclusive ability to fit moon mining and reaction service modules.This will give us completely new gameplay for moon mining and reactions, as well as linking into future resource collection gameplay.

Check out the exciting details in this blog Introducing Upwell Refineries

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

C C P Alliance
#2 - 2017-03-22 15:07:13 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Glad to be able to get this ball rolling and start bringing the community into the early process of developing these structures. We're releasing these blogs now so that we can focus Fanfest on listening to you folks. We also look forward to hearing from you all in this thread.

Here's the first set of Q&A after the early feedback and discussion:

Q: What will happen to Siphons in the new system?
A: We currently plan to phase out siphons since they don't really fit with the new system (there will be much more direct ways to steal moongoo). Siphons were a solid attempt at achieving a worthy goal, but for a number of reasons that particular implementation was doomed to extremely niche status. We think that overall direct spaceship interaction will be a more fun way of engaging in guerilla attacks against moon mining infrastructure.

Q: Will Rorquals be able to dock in the large refinery?
A: Yes. The medium refineries will have the same docking restrictions as Astrahus and Raitarus, while the large will allow those ships plus the Rorqual thanks to dedicated Rorqual docking facilities. Non-Rorqual capitals will not be able to dock in the large refinery however.

Q: What types of ships will be able to mine the new ore spawned by moon mining events?
A: The new ores won't require special ships to mine. They'll be minable with the normal ore mining ships that are available today.

Q: Will the new moon ore require new types of mining lasers and drones to mine?
A: Our current plan is to use the same mining lasers, strip miners and mining drones that currently mine the existing types of ore. We are interested in hearing what the community thinks about this however, and are keeping our options open.

Q: Can this new moon mining mechanic be expanded to include highsec and wormhole space?
A: As we mentioned in the blog we think this general mechanic has potential in other areas of space, but we're not currently planning on opening up collection of T2 moon materials into areas beyond lowsec and nullsec. We've run the number and we don't think diluting the sources of T2 materials across more areas of space would be beneficial to the feature.
However in future iterations we would be very interested in investigating expanding this same "scheduled mining event" gameplay to all areas of space using different resources. These might take the form of new resources or allowing the collection of existing resources such as normal minerals or T3 gasses.
For the first release we need to keep a reasonable scope so any expansion of that kind would need to come later if it comes. That also means that if we expand this gameplay to other resources in other areas we'll be able to integrate the lessons learned from the first release.

Q: Will starbases (POS) be removed when this feature is released?
A: No, the removal of starbases will be a gradual process and even with the release of refineries there will still be major starbase functions that are not yet replicated by new structures (cyno beacons, cyno jammers and jump bridges). We will have some news on the next steps towards the starbase phase out soon.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

#3 - 2017-03-22 15:11:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Pleasure Hub Node-514
Drill Baby Drill!

I'd say open moon mining up to WH space, yet institute a moon cracking cooldown warning mechanic to curtail (or aggressively encourage) massive scale extraction. Due to geo-spatial anomalies, moons in wormholes are prone to cataclysmic breakdown (shattered moons--unable to be furthered mined) if players continue to select the large yield cracking option despite cooldown warnings. Low yield extractions would take longer to trigger a cataclysm warning.

Declare war on the moons!

Update:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
However in future iterations we would be very interested in investigating expanding this same "scheduled mining event" gameplay to all areas of space using different resources. These might take the form of new resources or allowing the collection of existing resources such as normal minerals or T3 gasses.

I'd lean more toward T3 Gas harvesting if you anchor them to suns (special suns in wormholes).

Instead up tractoring up a moon pie, you'd be clustering super-heated plasma. The moon detonation phase would shift to triggering a 12hr-24hr solar flare event that blocks out dscan visibility of people on grid with the sun and shortens probe life to 5 minutes...or something along those lines.

'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4

Mercenary Coalition
#4 - 2017-03-22 15:15:17 UTC
I'm too scared to read it. Plz tell me everything is gonna be ok. PLEASE TELL ME ITS OK.
Nornir Empire
#5 - 2017-03-22 15:15:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Elizabeth Norn
RIP siphons.

Quote:
the new reactions system will not have hard limits on the number of jobs per structure, and will have per-character limits that can be increased with a new skill.


What about an index?
C C P Alliance
#6 - 2017-03-22 15:17:11 UTC
Rowells wrote:
I'm too scared to read it. Plz tell me everything is gonna be ok. PLEASE TELL ME ITS OK.


Just pointing out ...


CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2017-03-22 15:17:13 UTC
I'm glad to see CCP going ahead with the oft-requested change to moon mining to active harvest, and to changing reactions to a RAM activity. This should help everyone, considerably.

Question: Will reactions have their own cost index, like current RAM activities do? I'm assuming so, but it wasn't explicitly stated.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2017-03-22 15:18:39 UTC
Oh, another question: will the current significant bonus for sovereignty for reactions/moon mining be preserved?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Gallente Federation
#9 - 2017-03-22 15:22:29 UTC
So since Moon mining will change.....
Can you tell us what will happen to mobile siphon units?
can we use these on refining facilities?
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2017-03-22 15:23:51 UTC
Are we in a position to start talking details about a starbase hardware amnesty yet? We already have piles of worthless CSAAs and similar mods, and refineries will virtually finish off existing starbase functionality.

Time to start recycling it.
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2017-03-22 15:26:03 UTC
Question: What kind of ships will be able to mine the new type of ore? And is rorquals included in this, or does it require a whole new set of drones?
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2017-03-22 15:28:11 UTC
xttz wrote:
Are we in a position to start talking details about a starbase hardware amnesty yet? We already have piles of worthless CSAAs and similar mods, and refineries will virtually finish off existing starbase functionality.

Time to start recycling it.


I wouldn't expect it yet. They still have to replace cynojammers, beacons, and jump bridges.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Snuffed Out
#13 - 2017-03-22 15:28:35 UTC
Do you understand the impact this will have on lowsec?

Most of the larger lowsec alliance rely on passive moon income and have less isk making opportunities on an alliance level than nullsec allainces which was outlined on some reddit posts made during the leaks and an article on crossing zebra,

No one in lowsec is gonna mine so rip lowsec????
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2017-03-22 15:30:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Querns
Okay, third question. I'm needy.

Do you have any estimate on the cost of these things? I'm mostly looking for an answer like "cheaper than a citadel, but more expensive than an engineering complex of the same size" or "cheaper than an EC of the same size." Exact numbers are obviously meaningless this far out.


It was already covered in the blog. Reading comprehension is hard.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Gallente Federation
#15 - 2017-03-22 15:32:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Trixi Laminer
Whats the estimated prices for BPO's for the refineries and their specialized modules?
And do you have any estimated reciepe for materials and components needed to build the refineries? Big smile
Will you be able to build one in highsec and get better refining than in current EC's?
#16 - 2017-03-22 15:32:49 UTC  |  Edited by: JTK Fotheringham
Woohoo

So, questions...

Quote:
These service modules will enable reactions as a new type of industry, using the same interface as manufacturing and research.

Will we be able to set a tax on these jobs?
While we're talking about taxes - will ore compression become a taxable feature?

Quote:
the new reactions system will not have hard limits on the number of jobs per structure

Will there be a "system index" price attached to the job cost?

Quote:
The existing reactions will be converted to new blueprints that enable the reaction process in the new system

Will the new system for reactions involve ME and TE research levels?

Quote:
Once the chunk has exploded, the drilling module can begin fracturing a new part of the moon to start the process again.

Will moons deplete (over say a couple of months?), or will the same moon always produce the same moon-goo "forever"?

Quote:
However only Refineries deployed near minable moons will be able to fit a moon drill service module.

Will there be a limit of one refinery per moon, or will an alliance be able to set up say half a dozen, and have one extracting a chunk of moon per day?
#17 - 2017-03-22 15:36:33 UTC
Is there a possibility for moons to be destroyed by heavy fracking? Shattered Moons?
Mercenary Coalition
#18 - 2017-03-22 15:36:35 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
Rowells wrote:
I'm too scared to read it. Plz tell me everything is gonna be ok. PLEASE TELL ME ITS OK.


Just pointing out ...

[img]http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/71988/1/UpwellMoonmining_550.jpg[/img]

Last time I saw moon fracking like this there were tons of xenonorphs and it was generally bad week for everyone involved.
The Five
#19 - 2017-03-22 15:37:23 UTC
Querns wrote:
Okay, third question. I'm needy.

Do you have any estimate on the cost of these things? I'm mostly looking for an answer like "cheaper than a citadel, but more expensive than an engineering complex of the same size" or "cheaper than an EC of the same size." Exact numbers are obviously meaningless this far out.




From the blog they said: "Refineries will come in medium and large sizes with prices between that of Engineering Complexes and Citadels."

If a fish weighs 1 Kilogram plus half its own weight, how much does it weigh? (It's not 1.5kg btw)

Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2017-03-22 15:38:06 UTC
Bear Templar wrote:
Querns wrote:
Okay, third question. I'm needy.

Do you have any estimate on the cost of these things? I'm mostly looking for an answer like "cheaper than a citadel, but more expensive than an engineering complex of the same size" or "cheaper than an EC of the same size." Exact numbers are obviously meaningless this far out.




From the blog they said: "Refineries will come in medium and large sizes with prices between that of Engineering Complexes and Citadels."


Yeah, see my edit; I found it. Derp.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

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