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Idea for gradual development of new space to enable CCP to start now.

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Gallente Federation
#1 - 2017-04-28 11:11:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Alderson Point
I am transfering this idea from a different thread as it appears this idea is completely different, and I don't want to hijack their thread.

We all hope for new space sooner rather than later, but the job of bringing almost a EVE 2.0 system into play with all the NPC market seeding etc etc, is a massive task.

So I suggest that CCP let the players do it before the two spaces are joined.

The idea is basically explorers can enter and exit by Pods and No technology transfers between the two, and ISK balances remain seperate, as there is no fluid router network between them. So players start with no isk and nothing, in the new space and have to build the universe from scratch, with unpopulated markets. Players can however travel back to known space via pod at any time for a break/change. This enables the newspace ™ to be populated and up and running as soon as the first return stargate can be built, CCP of course can make the "final piece" available to create this, if and when they are ready.

Original post follows

an Interesting mechanic for getting into the new space, requiring taking a pod and nothing else.

There are no noobships given in stations, At each entry system and throught new space there are disabled shipyards you need to activate, With enough basic salvage lying around the system to mark for collection by the shipyard to build a limited range of ships, with inbuild blueprints programmed in. These are base combat frigate, basic mining barge, base exploration frigate.( your first mission in Newspace™ To get you started)

Blueprints for the new equipment (all equipment in the newspace) comes from rat drops and exploring, with a market coming into being as people have surpluses. But there is no fluid router link to New eden so your isk there is inaccessible. All items needed to build any item in newspace ™ will be found in newspace ™

Skillbooks will be only extracted from sites by hacking initially, but naturally hacking modules would Need to be built into the base exploration ship.

We would need to rebuild like EVE in the beginning, but without it needing NPC (CCP) seeded markets to kickstart things.

There would not be any time pressure to hurry the process along, maybe a tweak or two to keep us on track, to match CCPs new eden deadlines, for the pioneers it will be exploration and exploration combat on "interesting" mode. Basically every item, ship, and new skill, will be made in the new space that is needed to live and thrive in it.

A place to build and develop, a home to create, not just another extension of The current universe, but with NPCs twisted and devious enough that Gankers and Griefers, will not find life overly easy, still largely possible, but not a preferred choice for most.

Predictable and repeatable ambush tactics will get slaughtered, and repeatedly gate-camping the same chokepoints will be a fatal mistake.
The entry points into the new universe will be have the strongest responding NPC's and the furthest away the most relaxed, in the new entry systems PVP will be like chum in the water, attracted to the aggressor Who will be swarmed by them! A far more agressive response than concord. But further away, NPC's can become part of your combat tactics.

WE will build the universe, not NPC's but NPC's will keep it interesting. Plenty of opportunity for PVP, but to do so in entry systems will require players to "get gud!" If that is their goal. Farming pods as they come in and out is NOT going to end well. We do not want to see everyone looking into the space for the first time to be farmed by smartbombing suicide ships. The NPC attraction mechanics will deal with that.

The mechanic would basically encourage all to head deeper into the new universe, for EVERY reason.

So basically, until we built enough infrastructure to build the newspace ™ side of the gate, which may be as simple as a deployable beacon depending on CCPs timescales, (expandable to allow bigger ships as things develop) there might be a year or even two before ships and materials could cross between. We would create newspace ™ in our own image, and in unexpected ways.

And when we DO build the return gate and come back, macaper's prophecy comes true “the little brother makes the final sorrowful steps home; he is not welcome”

I hope you like it, and it takes pressure off CCP to deliver everything and balance the markets quickly, there would be a good year at least to play with and a lot of fun exploring in the meantime.


CCP Seagull, said she didn't want to give new space until they could make it great.

I think she is missing a trick and underestimating EVE players, let us in with a few basic tools, and half decent PVE and in one or two years we will give you an alive thriving space, that will be great, that you can open to the wider universe!

Ccp can also use it to throw some oddball ideas and curveballs, to see how we cope, and how we run with them, sort of a live sisi on steroids! That may never make it out into the wider game.

I promise you one thing, half of WH space, signal cartel, a big chunk of HS would be forming an orderly queue to get in for an opportunity like this. It will appeal to both alphas and omegas, and make it a real boost to alphas to upgrade, as there is a more level playing field, everyone in here with a pod, the same knowledge of the space and nothing else to start. And all will need to train the new ships classes. Or possibly the SOCT have been here before us?

F1 monkeys and revenant ratters, will be quite happy for others to develop it for them. No one needs to explore it if that is not their playstyle of choice.

Edit heavily modified to remove references to previous original post and replies.
#2 - 2017-04-28 11:31:02 UTC
So there is nothing in the new space and you can only enter with a pod, there is a problem.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Gallente Federation
#3 - 2017-04-28 11:33:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Alderson Point
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
So there is nothing in the new space and you can only enter with a pod, there is a problem.


Quote:
let us in with a few basic tools, and half decent PVE and in one or two years we will give you an alive thriving space, that will be great, that you can open to the wider universe!


What gets built there is entirely up to you, once newspace ™ is opened up by the new stargates, there will be a populated and thriving universe to engage with.

Of course I realise for many they want things handed to them fully complete and accessable from day one, for them day one is a year or two later. Others will have done that for them.

Not everyone is capable of being a pioneer.

Pioneer, great name for a release.

Building from scratch is not everyone's cup of tea, but for those of us who remember the birth of EVE it is a golden opportunity. And CCP know now what we are capable of.

It also enables CCP to have a staged release, and get everything ready and in place before opening the newspace ™ to all.
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2017-04-28 13:15:01 UTC
Alderson Point wrote:


We all hope for new space sooner rather than later, but the job of bringing almost a EVE 2.0 system into play with all the NPC market seeding etc etc, is a massive task.


No we don't all hope for new space. The current one is already empty a lot of the time so no space is useless until the player abse really start using the currently existing systems.
#5 - 2017-04-28 13:44:51 UTC
How about NO.
I know I am a selfish, entitled, jaded old vet but we NEED CCP to focus on the problems with EvE as it is, not waste time developing EvE 2.0 because it would be cool.

Even if they did bring your idea into being, it would only take a month, maybe 2 at most and this new space would be fully explored things manufactured and the markets full of stuff to buy and sell at which point this new space becomes for all practical purposes exactly the same as what we already have. Again a waste of development time that would be better spent addressing the issues we face in EvE as we know it now.

If there is anything worth having in this new space the large nul sec groups would quickly control it anyway simply adding even more to their already considerable influence on the game from within. But they can only take a limit amount of tools with them you might tell em and the response you get it that would not matter. The large blocks have the power and control they do because they are large blocks with lots of players involved. Restricting what they can take into the new EvE 2.0 will not and cannot overcome the numeric player advantage they have and that numeric advantage is all they need to be able to build more and faster and dominate this new space.

Spitting the EvE gaming community like this is would not be a good thing for either EvE 2.0 or for the EvE we all play now.
Having 2 universes and CCP would be required to split development resources between them and that slows the implementation of new features and bug fixes in both.
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2017-04-28 14:49:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Alderson Point
Donnachadh wrote:
How about NO.
I know I am a selfish, entitled, jaded old vet but we NEED CCP to focus on the problems with EvE as it is, not waste time developing EvE 2.0 because it would be cool.

Even if they did bring your idea into being, it would only take a month, maybe 2 at most and this new space would be fully explored things manufactured and the markets full of stuff to buy and sell at which point this new space becomes for all practical purposes exactly the same as what we already have. Again a waste of development time that would be better spent addressing the issues we face in EvE as we know it now.

If there is anything worth having in this new space the large nul sec groups would quickly control it anyway simply adding even more to their already considerable influence on the game from within. But they can only take a limit amount of tools with them you might tell em and the response you get it that would not matter. The large blocks have the power and control they do because they are large blocks with lots of players involved. Restricting what they can take into the new EvE 2.0 will not and cannot overcome the numeric player advantage they have and that numeric advantage is all they need to be able to build more and faster and dominate this new space.

Spitting the EvE gaming community like this is would not be a good thing for either EvE 2.0 or for the EvE we all play now.
Having 2 universes and CCP would be required to split development resources between them and that slows the implementation of new features and bug fixes in both.

Whilst I appreciate that you might feel this would impact development resources, in the medium and longer term it would actually reduce development efforts.

Now I do not believe that nullblocks would encourage their players to Give up ratting and farming in Null to control and dominate the new space with T1 frigates and venture equivalents, they will wait until they can actually get something worthwhile out of it, a profit, because nothing made there will be worth ANYTHING in new eden, as it cannot be brought out. And their wealth is meaningless, as their isk is not available to them there, and nothing can be brought in.

Now if CCP do nothing until everything is ready and then allow gates to be built, and nothing is being pre explored, and created, then the null blocks will ABSOLUTELY dominate and control it, but if there are experienced residents who have been there a Year or two preparing, learning the newspace ™ the hard way, then null will find it a far harder task and lead to some real content.

So basically, let explorers and the brave in, and null will have a challenge in a year or two.
Or let no one in until everything is ready and there is a land rush and null 2.0 is created.
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2017-04-28 14:56:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Alderson Point
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Alderson Point wrote:


We all hope for new space sooner rather than later, but the job of bringing almost a EVE 2.0 system into play with all the NPC market seeding etc etc, is a massive task.


No we don't all hope for new space. The current one is already empty a lot of the time so no space is useless until the player abse really start using the currently existing systems.


EVE like life is not a zero sum game. But I accept you may believe otherwise.

Read the whole post, market seeding is specifically stated NOT to be required by design. But quoting the first sentence is easier I guess, whilst ignoring what follows, who could have guessed that?Roll

Anyway, this is posted in player features and ideas, because it is intended as a suggestion as to how CCP can achieve their stated goals, with lower development and design effort, that can be expanded as time becomes available, without it being a Gigantic time sink that dominates two+ years development resources. It would run in parallel with their other efforts with the PLAYERS taking on the role of using basic tools, to develop it into a living active space, ready for the final switch on to the wider player base.

You may not choose to, but there are many who would, some remember building New eden from the beginning, the hard way, some never had that opportunity and will welcome it with open arms! It will take their Time, and their effort, blood sweat and tears,and they will witness the maturing of the newspace ™ from its starting shoots.
That absolutely will not appeal to anyone who is only interested in fattening their wallet. Their motivations will be very different, and widely embraced by those who want something different and interesting, whilst still being very EVE.

The core beating heart of what made EVE so wildly popular and fresh at that time.

Pioneers not farmers.

New space WILL come, one way or another, one cannot seriously believe that all development efforts will be targeted at the big null blocks forever can you?

Your chance will come, the stargates will be built and opened, but expect to find others waiting. And interesting conflicts.

I hope that some at CCP, remember what made EVE so special, so alive, and so engaging in its youth, and who would love to see that reborn, to eventually challenge, with its vitality, the stagnation and entitlement, that seems to have become the new EVE.

Once the gates eventually open, Players in New Eden will need to step up their game, and the whole EVE universe will be better for it.

We will see.
Evictus.
#8 - 2017-04-28 17:35:32 UTC
Eve currently has over 7000 systems. It would be interesting if CCP Quant could show us a heatmap but I suspect 10% of the systems hold 90% of the population. New space isn't about New Eden getting crowded or any lack of resources - most of the space we have is underutilized.

The proposal sounds like Eve 2.0 and CCP Seagull has been quite clear that she has no intention of pursuing that path. A clean sheet rewrite would probably be easier than struggling with 15 year old "legacy" code but Eve has a lot of player history that is much too important to throw away. The proposal also involves using tools and loot provided by CCP - that is also exactly opposite the path they are following - player built and destructible is the vision for the future.

New space doesn't need to be new star systems - it could be a Kuiper Belt or Oort cloud in the outer reaches of existing systems - perhaps lawless, unpoliced space in the middle of highsec! I think it's more likely that any new space we get will be accessed through Anoikis - you need a gate at both ends to jump and the only way to get that gate to the new system will be through a wormhole.
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2017-04-28 19:17:51 UTC
Alderson Point wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Alderson Point wrote:


We all hope for new space sooner rather than later, but the job of bringing almost a EVE 2.0 system into play with all the NPC market seeding etc etc, is a massive task.


No we don't all hope for new space. The current one is already empty a lot of the time so no space is useless until the player abse really start using the currently existing systems.


EVE like life is not a zero sum game. But I accept you may believe otherwise.

Read the whole post, market seeding is specifically stated NOT to be required by design. But quoting the first sentence is easier I guess, whilst ignoring what follows, who could have guessed that?Roll

Anyway, this is posted in player features and ideas, because it is intended as a suggestion as to how CCP can achieve their stated goals, with lower development and design effort, that can be expanded as time becomes available, without it being a Gigantic time sink that dominates two+ years development resources. It would run in parallel with their other efforts with the PLAYERS taking on the role of using basic tools, to develop it into a living active space, ready for the final switch on to the wider player base.

You may not choose to, but there are many who would, some remember building New eden from the beginning, the hard way, some never had that opportunity and will welcome it with open arms! It will take their Time, and their effort, blood sweat and tears,and they will witness the maturing of the newspace ™ from its starting shoots.
That absolutely will not appeal to anyone who is only interested in fattening their wallet. Their motivations will be very different, and widely embraced by those who want something different and interesting, whilst still being very EVE.

The core beating heart of what made EVE so wildly popular and fresh at that time.

Pioneers not farmers.

New space WILL come, one way or another, one cannot seriously believe that all development efforts will be targeted at the big null blocks forever can you?

Your chance will come, the stargates will be built and opened, but expect to find others waiting. And interesting conflicts.

I hope that some at CCP, remember what made EVE so special, so alive, and so engaging in its youth, and who would love to see that reborn, to eventually challenge, with its vitality, the stagnation and entitlement, that seems to have become the new EVE.

Once the gates eventually open, Players in New Eden will need to step up their game, and the whole EVE universe will be better for it.

We will see.


I will admit my quoting wasn't perfect and I should of cut even more.

My point is still that a lot of space is barely used now so introducing more is not needed at all.
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2017-04-28 20:57:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Alderson Point
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Alderson Point wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Alderson Point wrote:


We all hope for new space sooner rather than later, but the job of bringing almost a EVE 2.0 system into play with all the NPC market seeding etc etc, is a massive task.


No we don't all hope for new space. The current one is already empty a lot of the time so no space is useless until the player abse really start using the currently existing systems.


EVE like life is not a zero sum game. But I accept you may believe otherwise.

Read the whole post, market seeding is specifically stated NOT to be required by design. But quoting the first sentence is easier I guess, whilst ignoring what follows, who could have guessed that?Roll

Anyway, this is posted in player features and ideas, because it is intended as a suggestion as to how CCP can achieve their stated goals, with lower development and design effort, that can be expanded as time becomes available, without it being a Gigantic time sink that dominates two+ years development resources. It would run in parallel with their other efforts with the PLAYERS taking on the role of using basic tools, to develop it into a living active space, ready for the final switch on to the wider player base.

You may not choose to, but there are many who would, some remember building New eden from the beginning, the hard way, some never had that opportunity and will welcome it with open arms! It will take their Time, and their effort, blood sweat and tears,and they will witness the maturing of the newspace ™ from its starting shoots.
That absolutely will not appeal to anyone who is only interested in fattening their wallet. Their motivations will be very different, and widely embraced by those who want something different and interesting, whilst still being very EVE.

The core beating heart of what made EVE so wildly popular and fresh at that time.

Pioneers not farmers.

New space WILL come, one way or another, one cannot seriously believe that all development efforts will be targeted at the big null blocks forever can you?

Your chance will come, the stargates will be built and opened, but expect to find others waiting. And interesting conflicts.

I hope that some at CCP, remember what made EVE so special, so alive, and so engaging in its youth, and who would love to see that reborn, to eventually challenge, with its vitality, the stagnation and entitlement, that seems to have become the new EVE.

Once the gates eventually open, Players in New Eden will need to step up their game, and the whole EVE universe will be better for it.

We will see.


I will admit my quoting wasn't perfect and I should of cut even more.

My point is still that a lot of space is barely used now so introducing more is not needed at all.


Fine, if you are looking for farming space, then of course it will be of no interest to you. You have more than you can ever use.

If however you are looking for a new challenge, back to the vibrant exciting days of early EVE where the space you choose to live in is an opportunity to build a new and exciting world from scratch, then this suggestion will be right up your street.

I somehow imagine the idea of building a new home starting from nothing mining in a basic ship, and exploring undiscovered wonders, where your money is no good in New Eden fills you with horror.

For others that is the dream!

This is the EVE that we were born for, and has been lost. Sadly exchanged for comfort, total knowledge and predictability and easy ISK.

That was the Golden Age of EVE, now not even known by most players. This enables those days to return. Vibrant and alive!
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2017-04-28 21:09:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Alderson Point
Do Little wrote:
Eve currently has over 7000 systems. It would be interesting if CCP Quant could show us a heatmap but I suspect 10% of the systems hold 90% of the population. New space isn't about New Eden getting crowded or any lack of resources - most of the space we have is underutilized.

The proposal sounds like Eve 2.0 and CCP Seagull has been quite clear that she has no intention of pursuing that path. A clean sheet rewrite would probably be easier than struggling with 15 year old "legacy" code but Eve has a lot of player history that is much too important to throw away. The proposal also involves using tools and loot provided by CCP - that is also exactly opposite the path they are following - player built and destructible is the vision for the future.

New space doesn't need to be new star systems - it could be a Kuiper Belt or Oort cloud in the outer reaches of existing systems - perhaps lawless, unpoliced space in the middle of highsec! I think it's more likely that any new space we get will be accessed through Anoikis - you need a gate at both ends to jump and the only way to get that gate to the new system will be through a wormhole.

Uum, I am not sure if you are replying to my post, or one that you read elsewhere. So a few pointers.

1. Basic tools means exactly that, EVERYTHING will be built by players, there is NO NPC seeded market. surely you are not suggesting that minerals, and basic materials that players hunt out are somehow a bad thing?

2. No mention was mentioned as to where the POD access might be, but ships CANNOT pass until the newspace ™ is sufficiently developed BY THE PLAYERS. Then and only then can Gates be built on BOTH sides to connect.

3. No history is being thrown away, that remains canon and unchanged.

4. Basically your reply appears to have ignored the entire post.

5. The new space is ABSOLUTELY not suggested to be required because EVE is overcrowded, that is an absurd assumption. The new space is required as an alternative to the stagnant self entitled New Eden we have found ourselves in where people demand CCP provide content, and endlessly winge when it doesn't favour them.

The new space ideally should play into the pioneer mentality it started with, and has been lost along the way. We who choose to venture there with nothing but our pod, no Isk available until we earn it, no map, until we draw it, and only our dreams to guide us will absolutely adore it, and you can stay in your comfy safe ratting space filling your wallet, whist wondering if you are missing out, whilst simultaneously getting your Representatives to lobby to turn up the isk fountain by another notch.

And God help New Eden when those Spartans who have been tried by hardship and fire finally Build the gate with the sweat of their brow, and blood shed in a pitiless environment, and return to Prey on the Fat and lazy.

Then macaper's prophecy will come true “the little brother makes the final sorrowful steps home; he is not welcome”

He is full of sorrow to see how weak and degenerate new Eden has become, but that can be fixed, with a fresh insight and little antimatter.
ChaosTheory.
#12 - 2017-04-28 21:45:19 UTC
Alderson Point wrote:


2. No mention was mentioned as to where the POD access might be, but ships CANNOT pass until the newspace ™ is sufficiently developed BY THE PLAYERS. Then and only then can Gates be built on BOTH sides to connect.

3. No history is being thrown away, that remains canon and unchanged.

4. Basically your reply appears to have ignored the entire post.

5. The new space is ABSOLUTELY not suggested to be required because EVE is overcrowded, that is an absurd assumption. The new space is required as an alternative to the stagnant self entitled New Eden we have found ourselves in where people demand CCP provide content, and endlessly winge when it doesn't favour them.

The new space ideally should play into the pioneer mentality it started with...
He is full of sorrow to see how weak and degenerate new Eden has become, but that can be fixed, with a fresh insight and little antimatter.


Storyline wise, the objective is met with all the pomp and afterburners. Ships guard the half-finished gates. New space, heralding infinite wonder.

Then a Drifter cyno is lit.
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2017-04-28 21:48:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Alderson Point
Tessa Sage wrote:
Alderson Point wrote:


2. No mention was mentioned as to where the POD access might be, but ships CANNOT pass until the newspace ™ is sufficiently developed BY THE PLAYERS. Then and only then can Gates be built on BOTH sides to connect.

3. No history is being thrown away, that remains canon and unchanged.

4. Basically your reply appears to have ignored the entire post.

5. The new space is ABSOLUTELY not suggested to be required because EVE is overcrowded, that is an absurd assumption. The new space is required as an alternative to the stagnant self entitled New Eden we have found ourselves in where people demand CCP provide content, and endlessly winge when it doesn't favour them.

The new space ideally should play into the pioneer mentality it started with...
He is full of sorrow to see how weak and degenerate new Eden has become, but that can be fixed, with a fresh insight and little antimatter.


Storyline wise, the objective is met with all the pomp and afterburners. Ships guard the half-finished gates. New space, heralding infinite wonder.

Then a Drifter cyno is lit.


Nice, of course we are not going to be trapped in the newspace ™ with the drifters, they are going to be trapped in the new space with us!

When that gate is finally opened, New Eden will quickly wish it was the Drifters on the other side. The little brother will not be welcome.
#14 - 2017-04-28 23:11:07 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:

No we don't all hope for new space. The current one is already empty a lot of the time so no space is useless until the player base really start using the currently existing systems.

Has the world ended when I wasn't looking such that I'm in total agreement with this.
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2017-04-28 23:32:24 UTC
Alderson Point wrote:


The idea is basically explorers can enter and exit by Pods and No technology transfers between the two, and ISK balances remain seperate, as there is no fluid router network between them. So players start with no isk and nothing, in the new space and have to build the universe from scratch, with unpopulated markets.


Ok lets take it from the start. You are in a pod. You cant kill something with it, so no money, if you can kill it, no Concord to pay bounties. Nice start.
Ok lets take it from the start. You are in a pod, you cant mine with it, and if you can mine, no blueprints to build something.
Want to take it from the start for a third time? You are in a pod, no isk to start with it.

So you can see your plan is needs something else to get started,

so NO! -1
ChaosTheory.
#16 - 2017-04-29 00:15:06 UTC
Atomeon wrote:
[quote=Alderson Point]

You are in a pod, no isk to start with it.

So you can see your plan is needs something else to get started,

so NO! -1


In programming, you can test 'if' and follow up with 'else' with hardly a second thought. If no ISK at first jump, how does that change the UI, what else would be emphasized.. exploration perhaps?
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2017-04-29 06:22:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Alderson Point
Atomeon wrote:
Alderson Point wrote:


The idea is basically explorers can enter and exit by Pods and No technology transfers between the two, and ISK balances remain seperate, as there is no fluid router network between them. So players start with no isk and nothing, in the new space and have to build the universe from scratch, with unpopulated markets.


Ok lets take it from the start. You are in a pod. You cant kill something with it, so no money, if you can kill it, no Concord to pay bounties. Nice start.
Ok lets take it from the start. You are in a pod, you cant mine with it, and if you can mine, no blueprints to build something.
Want to take it from the start for a third time? You are in a pod, no isk to start with it.

So you can see your plan is needs something else to get started,

so NO! -1


Dear God just read the bloody op, after all one wouldn't want people to think you couldn't?

I have had some had some batshit crazy replies from threads before, but never criticism that hasn't even read beyond the first sentence before.

Did I mention we need the new space to get away from the lazy, ignorant, and self entitled, who expect and demand everything spoon fed to them? And cannot work anything out without a pre prepared guide, so they can fatten their wallet whilst being more and more bored each day?

Clearly you are not the intended audience, you may well be the Degenerate EVE we wish to get far away from, back to the roots of EVE, where one had to discover and solve, or thrive or Die without an instruction manual you could google for every mission, you clearly would never make it in let alone Thrive in the Newspace ™. Even If someone Gave you a GPS.

Other people came before you, the ones who discovered the wonders of new Eden, who died unendingly in the early Missions, who ventured far from the known, and Gave you all the knowledge to enable people to endlessly farm, now knowing the triggers others found for you with blood sweat and tears. Filling the markets, and Building all the ships for the first time you can now use, who First mined the moons, and invented the T2 modules, and found the first rare Deadspace equipment? and why it is so easy for you now, just Go to the market with Your Farming Billions, Fit a ship with all that, read the guides, fatten wallet and repeat, building your retirement fund, because eventually CCP and you will get fed up designing and buying super, super super, even more super, capitals, (oooh new shiny!) to feed to each other in meaningless fake wars, around super blinged shiny citadels, projecting your face to the friendly stars, to soak up all that worthless farm isk, and then you can post on reddit about the hundreds of billion you have, in the game you never log into anymore.

And we seriously wonder why most new players don't now hang around?

Is it so hard to imagine EVE without all that prepared for you? And why for some that thought is so appealing?

New Eden was once a beautiful wild frontier, full of risk and challenges, a new space to wonder at.

And now it is a fully stocked game reserve, full of self entitled fat hunters with no self restraint and lazy muggers.
("I'm bored, CCP give me a unicorn! Now or I'll leave!", NO! I want it Pink! It's not fair!!!)

Clearly some want something INTERESTING, that isn't laid out for them on a plate, that is the proposal for the newspace ™ and in a year or two, that will be ready for you to try to farm, but those that went before you, will not make it so easy for you next time to do so!

But then, you probably didn't make it past the first sentence, see you on reddit, when the next meaningless billion is just too much effort to bother farming, while others hopefully will have found the place to continue loving the game, still in the EVE universe.

"Project Pioneer" the most fun you had since the first time.

CCP is doing and has done amazing work, phenomenal ideas, beautiful art, and show sparks of real genius.

It is OUR fault we have reduced it to Isk/hr and chasing ever bigger shineys, not theirs.

I would bet there are many at CCP who would love to spell out a few home truths, but sometimes we need to say it for them, after all they clearly love their jobs and want to keep them.

Tl;-dr If you cannot bother to read the thread, Newspace ™ isn't for you.
Evictus.
#18 - 2017-04-29 08:23:15 UTC
I admit I didn't parse the post word for word but I read about disabled shipyards I need to activate, stuff lying around to build ships and modules. No money except bounties earned in the new space...

I interpret this as CCP providing the framework to bootstrap the economy in what is essentially Eve 2.0.

It is far more likely, and I believe far more interesting to assume that new space will contain nothing except resources to harvest and we will need to bring the wherewithal to do that with us from old space.
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2017-04-29 09:02:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Alderson Point
Do Little wrote:
I admit I didn't parse the post word for word but I read about disabled shipyards I need to activate, stuff lying around to build ships and modules. No money except bounties earned in the new space...

I interpret this as CCP providing the framework to bootstrap the economy in what is essentially Eve 2.0.

It is far more likely, and I believe far more interesting to assume that new space will contain nothing except resources to harvest and we will need to bring the wherewithal to do that with us from old space.



No no no.
That is missing the point in it's entirety, skimming posts and drawing your own conclusions that completely ignore the entire meaning of it, really doesn't bring a whole lot of value to the thread.

Your interpretation is completely ignoring EVERYTHING that is said.
CCP will NOT bootstrap the economy, the players will, preparing it for later opening. All CCP provide is the means for them to do so. Hopefully using their new tools, You may have not played EVE in the beginning, it wasn't all laid out for you, and this proposal, ensures that CCP do not have to "seed the market" and drive the game on rails.

Simply providing access to newspace ™ via gates in a couple of years, able to bring existing wealth to bear, unoccupied, and uncontested by existing residents, will simply be a new source of farming income, that will be occupied by null in a week. If it is more profitable isk/hr. you claim that is more interesting, how? All they will have added is another batch of systems to farm, in exactly the same way as they are farmed now, except with a few reskinned rats and new shiny loot and ships. How long will that stay interesting, and what has been gained? Adding more shineys, is the state we are in now, ooh blood raider capitals! Ooh, my photo on a citadel! Rather than actually being fun, interesting, challenging, and engaging.

Do you remember the first wormholes? Now they are tamed farmlands, with a few hunters in the darkness. They have totally lost their sense of mystery. Precious little is left if one does not want to farm for isk, or farm for killmails. We make the most of it, but God it is soul destroyingly dull sometimes.

CCP are doing amazing work, but I believe they want to give more than just satisfy our shiny addiction. They really are trying so hard to create the tools, and some of those tools are awesome! lets use them.

There's more than enough farming space. And there is more than enough said in this thread that amply clarifies the entire proposal, including my reply earlier to you.
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2017-04-29 12:03:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Now Life
is a good proposal

But what I was thinking of : T3 Deep space expedition/exploration ships
New ship typs, Each with their own task
1st type Hull size between Cruiser and BS (probe launcher ,1st Deep space exploration ship)

2nd type Hull size between BS and Supper ( mid Bridge head Deploy ship and new system expedition )

3rd type Hull size between Supper and titan ( First base ship and new system defence, hauler)

The new ship class can not come in high sec
needs new type of fuel and mods to travel to Unknown space .

-New deep space prob launcher (structure cost of a keepstar)
1 structure per constelation/WH
When active to launch probs : Penalties in a particular radius around the structure to warp , scan , target, .....
- New Medical data transfer structure (Can be put on standby and have sleeper cloak tech when on standby when you die you wake up in Known space /WH )
- New intergalactic gat (cost of a faction keepstar)


The intention is
You're deploy a deep space probe launcher (DCPL) where it will best suit your group
When you want to launch probs, you get penalties in system / WH around the launcher
Choose the direction / Travel time / ... of probs . XX amount of time you get data from brobes (The structure must stay online )
Alsow posible with the 1st ship but less probs / range/ flight time of probs
And as you know space is big So finding something is rare.
And if you find something you need to warp to it with the 1st or 2nd ship type set up a safe midpoint (Medical clone data transfer) to transfer your mind to a new clone when you die in the New unknown space with new unknown Alliance
Now you have a bridge head in the middle of nowhere space and you can start scanning with you 1st type ship for new regions or do expeditions with te 2nd one .

When you find a new region
your group can make this new region known to all
Or keep the location for your own group
Exploit it and the locals or work with them to develop new technologies
(like bether scan mods when the new region is high in radiation from a new sun)
3rd ship you set up 1ste base and then an intergalactic gat (after ... for CCP to decide)

And when a WH groups find new Eden / new regions the same rules

No existing ship / Upwel building can go / deploya in the new location / region until there is a intergalactic gat.
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