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Please explain why i can't fill a buy order from another citadel...?

Author
#1 - 2017-05-03 22:56:45 UTC
To the best of my research into the situation, buy orders created in Upwell structures that have set a range greater than "station" can only be filled from within NPC stations or player outposts. Buy orders cannot be filled by from other Upwell structures.

I tried to search and can't find the explanation. Please explain the logic in this? To cover a region supplied mostly by Upwell structures, I need to set up individual buy orders within each separate structure. This is madness.

Thanks for the history lesson on this mechanic!
#2 - 2017-05-04 00:04:20 UTC
CupKate wrote:
To the best of my research into the situation, buy orders created in Upwell structures that have set a range greater than "station" can only be filled from within NPC stations or player outposts. Buy orders cannot be filled by from other Upwell structures. I tried to search and can't find the explanation. Please explain the logic in this?


The buyer might not be able to dock at the structure, and this can change after the buy order is filled. Fair enough if it's the structure they used to place the order, but they can't be expected to take account of every other Upwell structure in the region.

I'm starting to think citadels should be able to be locked into an "anyone can dock" state, which naturally the would-be trade posts would do. The only way they're going to really take over from NPC stations as trade destinations is if they have equal utility.
#3 - 2017-05-04 04:38:58 UTC
Player controlled outposts/conqurable stations can also be inaccessible based on standings. This shouldn't be the reason. Let the risk be known and it's up to buyer to make sure they know what it means to have a range on their buy orders.
Caldari State
#4 - 2017-05-04 05:44:35 UTC
CupKate wrote:
Player controlled outposts/conqurable stations can also be inaccessible based on standings. This shouldn't be the reason. Let the risk be known and it's up to buyer to make sure they know what it means to have a range on their buy orders.
No thanks.

My channel: "Signatures" -

#5 - 2017-05-04 07:56:31 UTC
CupKate wrote:
Let the risk be known and it's up to buyer to make sure they know what it means to have a range on their buy orders.


This would essentially mean that ranged buy orders would have zero utility. That doesn't seem very sensible.
Invisible Exchequer
#6 - 2017-05-04 12:19:51 UTC
CupKate wrote:
Player controlled outposts/conqurable stations can also be inaccessible based on standings. This shouldn't be the reason. Let the risk be known and it's up to buyer to make sure they know what it means to have a range on their buy orders.



It was decided that hostile listing would not be a thing anymore when citadels came out. This means filling buy orders, because the flip side is if they can buy it, they can list it.
#7 - 2017-05-04 12:43:52 UTC
Areen Sassel wrote:
CupKate wrote:
Let the risk be known and it's up to buyer to make sure they know what it means to have a range on their buy orders.


This would essentially mean that ranged buy orders would have zero utility. That doesn't seem very sensible.


ummm... so what happens this winter when player outposts go away, leaving large swaths of null with only upwell structures? ranged buy orders will have no utility! There's no point setting a ranged buy when none of the other locations where players can dock will be able to sell to your buy order.
Caldari State
#8 - 2017-05-04 16:03:28 UTC
CupKate wrote:
Areen Sassel wrote:
CupKate wrote:
Let the risk be known and it's up to buyer to make sure they know what it means to have a range on their buy orders.


This would essentially mean that ranged buy orders would have zero utility. That doesn't seem very sensible.


ummm... so what happens this winter when player outposts go away, leaving large swaths of null with only upwell structures? ranged buy orders will have no utility! There's no point setting a ranged buy when none of the other locations where players can dock will be able to sell to your buy order.


You actually want to be able to set a ranged buy order in null and have orders filled in stations you can't dock at? How does that make sense?
#9 - 2017-05-04 17:00:40 UTC  |  Edited by: CupKate
Alexi Stokov wrote:


You actually want to be able to set a ranged buy order in null and have orders filled in stations you can't dock at? How does that make sense?


I guess I'm missing why this isn't important to more market and trade people here.


I am looking for consistency in the way the market mechanics work. If from any station or outpost I can put a ranged buy and have it filled at any other station or outpost in that range, upwell structures should operate the same way.

Similarly, if I'm in an upwell structure and put a ranged buy up, that buy can be filled at any station or outpost.

The only scenarios that don't work are:
1) having my upwell structure ranged buy be filled at another upwell structure.
2) having my NPC Station/Outpost ranged buy be flled at an upwell structure.

This is inconsistent and a limitation to market playstyle.


Limitations this mechanic creates:

There are large parts of null where the same organization/alliance holds many systems, each with upwell structures. This upwell structure limitation prevents placing a ranged buy order that covers all those structures.

Similarly, in highsec, a player should be able sell to ranged buys from freehub to freehub..

Shouldn't someone in jita be able to place a 1-jump ranged buy to be filled by the freehubs in Perimeter, Maurasi, or elsewhere? Right now, you can't sell to the Jita ranged buys from these freehubs.

The freehubs are never going to become a challenge to Jita 4-4 if people can't go there to offload all their assets to the best available buy price in the range.
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2017-05-04 17:16:41 UTC
Of course, this is a problem, but there is no easy fix. With unrestricted filling of orders, citadel owners can rip off buyers just too easily. This would be the death to (highsec) range orders. Options I see: make an exception to sov null space, or allow order filling within the same corp/alliance.

This is the consequence of applying sovereignty mechanics to high- and lowsec.

I'm my own NPC alt.

#11 - 2017-05-04 18:18:54 UTC
CupKate wrote:
Areen Sassel wrote:
CupKate wrote:
Let the risk be known and it's up to buyer to make sure they know what it means to have a range on their buy orders.
This would essentially mean that ranged buy orders would have zero utility. That doesn't seem very sensible.
ummm... so what happens this winter when player outposts go away, leaving large swaths of null with only upwell structures? ranged buy orders will have no utility!


True. So what is worse; to have it be true in those large swathes of null, or to have it be true everywhere?

I don't see a way out of this short of allowing citadels to lock themselves into a everyone-can-dock state.
Northern Coalition.
#12 - 2017-05-05 21:21:49 UTC
Alexi Stokov wrote:
CupKate wrote:
Areen Sassel wrote:
CupKate wrote:
Let the risk be known and it's up to buyer to make sure they know what it means to have a range on their buy orders.


This would essentially mean that ranged buy orders would have zero utility. That doesn't seem very sensible.


ummm... so what happens this winter when player outposts go away, leaving large swaths of null with only upwell structures? ranged buy orders will have no utility! There's no point setting a ranged buy when none of the other locations where players can dock will be able to sell to your buy order.


You actually want to be able to set a ranged buy order in null and have orders filled in stations you can't dock at? How does that make sense?


most regions have one owner or multiple owners that are blue to each other. ranged buy orders would not be a problem there.

it's mostly high and to some degree lowsec where problematic behaviour would (and could) happen.

in fact, i could probably ruin 1-2 of my competitors within a week if i could fill their ranged orders from my personal citadel.
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