Warfare & Tactics

 
 

drone boat vs drone boat

Author
Ushra'Khan
#1 - 2017-05-11 18:03:22 UTC
What it is the best tactic here?

My drones attack his...while his are eating away at my ship?

Lost a curse to a gila, his drones went through me before I even got through his shields. Both using Hammerheads..
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#2 - 2017-05-11 18:36:58 UTC
You look at this like you would any engagement. What are they flying, what is it's bonuses etc etc.. in this case it was a guristas ship which have limited drone bandwidth but huge bonuses to drone damage and hp(500% to medium drones for the gila) as well has large buffs to shields. Figure in they tend to be shield tanked with 2 or 3 extenders and you have quite a bit of shields to get through.

You have to compare this info with whatever it is you are flying. So you take your curse and rank that against this pirate cruiser. The issue you run into is the weapon of choice, on a gila, is RLML which doesn't need cap and drones that have a bonus that makes it seem like you are fighting a dozen of them. Even if you can neut out the ship it can still apply all it's damage with min loss to tank.

I can also promise you that they are running 3 drone damage amps in their low slots. So the TLDR is kill those damn drones, as quick as you can.. He likely has 5 to 6 in total so if you can't get through that many... best to stay away from that ship
#3 - 2017-05-11 18:37:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Scialt
Curse: 10% bonus to drone HP and Damage per level. 5 Hammerheads = 7.5 drone equivalents.
Gila: 500% bonus to medium drone HP and Damage. 2 Hammerheads = 10 drone equivlents. (possibly 12... I'm not sure if the 500% is 5 x damage or 5 x damage plus the original damage)

Simply put... he effectively has 2.5-4.5 more drones than you if all skills are equal.... and it will take you longer to kill each one due to the hp bonus... and he has reserves. He's supposed to shred you in that matchup.

Also... gallente drones are thermal... which means the base curse resists are 20 on shields and 35 on armor while his are 20/45... not a huge factor but it is another thing in his favor.

Best tactic is probably not to engage.
Ushra'Khan
#4 - 2017-05-11 18:38:10 UTC
makes sense. thanks
The-Culture
#5 - 2017-05-18 08:36:17 UTC
If you're going to engage a Gila with a Curse you may also wish to consider tinkering with your fit a bit to specifically engage that ship type. The Gila can only field two drones at once, and even though they yield as much damage as ten that only works if they can hit... maybe try fitting a pair of tracking disrupters with scripts and using those on the drones. The Curse is bonused for them, so it may be effective.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

The Tuskers Co.
#6 - 2017-05-18 12:12:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Switch Savage
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
If you're going to engage a Gila with a Curse you may also wish to consider tinkering with your fit a bit to specifically engage that ship type. The Gila can only field two drones at once, and even though they yield as much damage as ten that only works if they can hit... maybe try fitting a pair of tracking disrupters with scripts and using those on the drones. The Curse is bonused for them, so it may be effective.


No, just no.

TDs do not do anything to drones, drones are a natural counter to them for obvious reasons.

As already stated a curse is at a natural disadvantage fighting a Gila from the get go. It's damage can in no way be neuted off and the vast majority of correctly fit PVP Gilas are pure buffer or LSE/XL Ancil fit without an Invul. In the former case neuts can potentially shut down the Invul lowering its ehp significantly however this is not enough to secure a win.

The main issue is the ehp vs ehp and dps race is such a gigantic mismatch. That said a Gila launches two heavily bonused medium drones and this can be abused to your advantage. Webbing a single drone whilst maintaining a high speed via MWD removes 50% of the Gilas drone dps. Cycling your web between drones after "pushing" the previous one away allows you to maintain the lowered dps throughout the fight.

On ships with actual turret dps you can also use a flight of ECM 300s to jam one drone whilst utlising the above tactic to almost remove ALL drone dps. The Curse however does not have this luxury as your primary source of damage is through your drones. An active shield tanked Curse might stand a chance of lowering the dps enough via webs to secure a kill however it would be far from guaranteed vs a well fit Gila. Mainly because your low shield buffer means a single mistake will eat into your armor/structure.

Killing drones is not a palatable option.
The-Culture
#7 - 2017-05-18 12:39:13 UTC
While I don't grasp the obvious reasons for drones being a counter to TD's, I do appreciate the info regarding the ineffectiveness of said module on them.
Much obliged, as you may have saved me a costly loss in the future.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

The Tuskers Co.
#8 - 2017-05-18 13:10:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Switch Savage
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
While I don't grasp the obvious reasons for drones being a counter to TD's, I do appreciate the info regarding the ineffectiveness of said module on them.
Much obliged, as you may have saved me a costly loss in the future.


Tracking disruptors disrupt weapon systems and they do not disrupt drones.

Bonused high damage drone boats are unaffected by tracking disruptors and thus are naturally a hard counter.
The Tuskers Co.
#9 - 2017-05-18 13:36:19 UTC
I looked up the loss and i have to say that is a horribly fit Curse which did not help your situation at all.

You wasted two mids on sensor boosters and a high on a cloak (you realise the curse is d-scan immune).


[Curse,LSE/XLASB Curse]
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Co-Processor II

50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Caldari Navy Large Shield Extender
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Caldari Navy Warp Disruptor
Stasis Webifier II

Medium Infectious Scoped Energy Neutralizer
Medium Infectious Scoped Energy Neutralizer
Corpii C-Type Small Energy Nosferatu
Corpii C-Type Small Energy Nosferatu
Corpii C-Type Small Energy Nosferatu

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II

Infiltrator II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5
Hammerhead II x5

This is pretty solid for hunting PVErs.

45k ehp with all Ancil charges used (Yours had 19k ehp). 50k+ With blue pill. Not saying it will kill Gilas but it will do a damn better job than the previous fit you were using. The other thing to remember is you tried killing a Gila doing a Serpentis site who will have been thermal tanked.

#10 - 2017-05-18 19:09:29 UTC
Switch Savage wrote:


Tracking disruptors disrupt weapon systems and they do not disrupt drones.

What if you apply td on drones?
The Tuskers Co.
#11 - 2017-05-18 19:26:06 UTC
As far as i am aware TDs do actually change drone stats but its not nearly enough to be a viable tactic to counter them. Jamming/Webbing them whilst kiting is really effective as mentioned though.
Of Sound Mind
#12 - 2017-05-19 06:54:39 UTC
Switch Savage wrote:
As far as i am aware TDs do actually change drone stats but its not nearly enough to be a viable tactic to counter them. Jamming/Webbing them whilst kiting is really effective as mentioned though.



Tracking disruptors do work on drones, however hammerheads have good enough tracking that usually it does not make a difference, and you only TD one of his two drones (or against a regular drone boat, only 1 of 5). Using a TD on a Rattlesnake's single Gecko however works wonders.
The-Culture
#13 - 2017-05-26 06:24:10 UTC
See, now I'm confused.
So, a Curse with it's 30% bonus to weapon disruptor effectiveness coupled with scripts for tracking speed, will or will not have a meaningful impact on the damage output of a Gila's hammerheads or valkyries if both drones are disrupted?
Seeking clarity.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

The Tuskers Co.
#14 - 2017-05-26 08:50:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Switch Savage
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
See, now I'm confused.
So, a Curse with it's 30% bonus to weapon disruptor effectiveness coupled with scripts for tracking speed, will or will not have a meaningful impact on the damage output of a Gila's hammerheads or valkyries if both drones are disrupted?
Seeking clarity.


Depends on the target. Against a Curse with MWD active or even without it active they will hit well regardless which is why it is not feasible.

Double tracking disrupting one whilst webbing the other might have some merit, however with all the mid slots you would sacrifice your tank is going to be very light and you would likely just die to the missiles.
RvB - RED Federation
#15 - 2017-05-26 12:39:52 UTC
If you kill drones in any engagement you are scum.
Caldari State
#16 - 2017-06-06 15:20:17 UTC
The Curse is not a drone boat, the Curse is an EWAR ship that has drones.

If your curse has something that is not a Neut in the Highs, you are doing it wrong. NOS's/Neut's should not be used together because they don't work together. If you Neut someone then you cant NOS them.



Curse

Medium Energy Neutralizer II x3
Small Endergy Neutralizer II x2

Afterburner II
Webs x2
Scram
Biggest cap booster you can fit with biggest cap navy charges it can fit
Ship Scanner II

Biggest 1600 Plate you can fit
Enam II x2
DC2


Trimark (45k ehp with I, almost 47k with II)
Ancillary Current router

Total pricetag around 250m. tears of blaster boats, priceless.

Going for damage on a recon ship is not what they are made for, especially not the Curse. With 2DDA's it only gets 325 with hammers. Td's are also kinda situational, neuts are handy anytime. Don't worry about how the fitting screen tells you your cap only lasts a minute, it will last a lot longer with the booster, plus you don't need to run them constantly. two cycles will do the trick on a cruiser, 3 if it has a battery. Then just use the smalls staggered to prevent recharging. The ship scanner tells you how much cap they have left and how they are fit (useful if they have a booster themselves). Use the scanner to determine best damage type or if you can take them at all. Passive shield tanks found on lots of PvErs wont be broken by your drones, fortunately they also use hardeners alot which are shut off by neuts. If they have a hardener fit hit that damage type.

If you ever find yourself going against a ship type that you should not fight in a curse such as drones, missles, or some projectiles. Align out, heat the neuts, and warp as soon as the point goes down.



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