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Holy friggin nerf batman

Author
#1 - 2017-05-11 18:09:56 UTC
It's admittedly been a pretty long time since I bothered trying to fly the jackdaw. It was before the tactical dessi nerfs when I last tried one. I finally decided to work on some new fits for one in pyfa today though and holy hell! It's been turned into a 30 mil isk frigate hull that cant even fit into a small fw plex.

EHP is as low and even less than some frigates, dps is a little above par but can be matched by a faction frigate, speed is terrible. with the woeful inadequacy of lml dessi's kite frigates are just ridiculously difficult to counter. The only platform even remotely worthwhile seems to be the interdictors. Cost aside, a flycatcher is MUCH faster than a jackdaw, does similar dps, has equal ehp, can fit into a small plex AND doesn't require mode changes. I can understand there were some redic tanks possible pre nerf but come on. Why even leave a shp in the game as poor as the jackdaw, not to mention it's little brother the corax... it's not even worth wasting time in pyfa trying to find a fit for it that isn't completely useless. When a dessi hull is easily soloable by a t1 frig something is broken.

If anyone has any fits that aren't complete garbage pls share.

Daemun of Khanid

#2 - 2017-05-11 19:14:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
You do know you can triple MASB tank a jackdaw right? And the agility bonus basically begs for a 10mn AB?
#DeleteTheWeak
#3 - 2017-05-11 19:31:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Daemun Khanid
Active tanks are nice for 1v1 stuff but I tend to end up fighting outnumbered. In those cases buffer fits work better. I'll take a look at 3asb fits though. Was just really shocked that w lightmissiles you really cant fit even a med shield extender. Heck frigates use med shield extenders.

Edit: Triple MASB fit not even remotely possible w light missiles. Can't even fit a single MASB with no prop mod at all and light missiles. Even w rockets the only way fitting that would even be remotely possible is w meta launchers and no BCS meaning your dps wouldn't even match a rifter. :/

Daemun of Khanid

#4 - 2017-05-11 20:32:52 UTC
I'm at work right and don't have access to an easy fitting tool. I'll pull it then.


But something seems wrong if your having troubles fitting a full rack of missiles.

Also don't shun rockets on a jackdaw. They are not bad at all.
#DeleteTheWeak
#5 - 2017-05-11 21:07:17 UTC
They are if your goal is to counter kiting frigates doing 3-6km/s at a range of 20km.

Daemun of Khanid

#6 - 2017-05-11 21:30:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
Then wouldn't a fessor be better suited for that task?


Regardless I think your fitting skills are little off in your character or your fitting tool , you should be able to fit a full rack of LML a MWD and MASB no problem. What is the fit your trying to make work?
#DeleteTheWeak
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2017-05-11 22:17:29 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Then wouldn't a fessor be better suited for that task?

i think this applies to all things in eve
#8 - 2017-05-11 22:26:51 UTC
Nothing wrong w the skills I assure you. Ship is just bad. As for the fessor I prefer missile alpha and less application problems vs fessor beams.

Daemun of Khanid

#9 - 2017-05-11 22:50:38 UTC
Seriously, what are you trying to fit on this thing? I'm not seeing any issues. Yes, you might need some fitting mods to get everything on but there's more than enough space, even for a 2-BCU 10MN fit with a meta MSE.
#10 - 2017-05-12 00:09:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
I am **** ignore the fittings I gave because I are dumb
#DeleteTheWeak
#11 - 2017-05-12 00:11:20 UTC
[Jackdaw, new]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Initiated Compact Warp Disruptor
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script

Light Missile Launcher II
Light Missile Launcher II
Light Missile Launcher II
Light Missile Launcher II
Light Missile Launcher II
[Empty High slot]

Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst II
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

Even with the compact mwd and long point and using geno's thats still 15 cpu over.

Daemun of Khanid

#12 - 2017-05-12 00:17:05 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Here's Triple MASB Jackdaw. Needs a 2% CPU implants, which are cheap, 274 with rage, 2.5kms in prop mode. Your tanking 200dps with each MASB.

[Jackdaw, Jackdaw 3xMASB]

Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50
Faint Epsilon Scoped Warp Scrambler
5MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier

Rocket Launcher II, Nova Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Nova Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Nova Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Nova Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Nova Rage Rocket
[Empty High slot]

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Small Core Defense Operational Solidifier II
Small Core Defense Operational Solidifier II



And here's a LML Jackdaw cobbled together rather quickly. Has a tech 2 MSE, and just uses a PDS. Or you Meta the MSE and had a nanofiber in.

13.5k tank, 182dps with faction and 2.4kms

[Jackdaw, Jackdaw fit]

Power Diagnostic System II
Ballistic Control System II

5MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive
Medium Shield Extender II
Faint Scoped Warp Disruptor
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier

Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
[Empty High slot]

Small Core Defense Field Extender II
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing II


I have no idea what you trying to fit on your Jackdaw but you're doing something wrong


Do you even realize both those fits have 6 mids? Unless PYFA is currently jacked, current pyfa has 5 mids and 3 lows vs the 6 mids and 2 lows you're using. Looks like you are using pre t3 nerf fittings.

Daemun of Khanid

#13 - 2017-05-12 00:18:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
AH ****
HOLD up.
#DeleteTheWeak
#14 - 2017-05-12 00:19:16 UTC
PYFA isn't jacked, you're using pre nerf jackdaw fittings. Pre nerf I had no problems... its now that sucks.

Daemun of Khanid

#15 - 2017-05-12 00:22:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
[Jackdaw, Unnamed loadout]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

5MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive
Faint Scoped Warp Disruptor
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier
Medium F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier

Light Missile Launcher II
Light Missile Launcher II
Light Missile Launcher II
Light Missile Launcher II
Light Missile Launcher II
[empty high slot]

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing II
Small Core Defense Field Extender II



Boop there you go, you dont need a damage control on everyship nowadays so you can move a nano into it. Sorry for being a dumbass haha, But really having that extra low instead of a mid should help the jackdaw not hinder it. It's fittings PwG and CPU was never touched
#DeleteTheWeak
#16 - 2017-05-12 00:25:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Daemun Khanid
For example, if I basically modify that buffer fit you posted to make it fit on a jackdaw compared to an almost identical flycatcher fit...
Jackdaw (in prop mode w my geno set and hardwires for speed)
2384 m/s
230 dps
12k ehp

Flycatcher
2825 m/s
244 dps
12.2k ehp

Point being the jackdaw is supposed to be a combat dessi far more so than the interdiction capable flycatcher and instead the flycatcher out classes it pretty handily.
Pre-nerf the opposite used to be true. The flycatcher had nice speed but the jackdaw would out dps it, out tank it and was half the price. Once they forced the damage bonus into sharp shooter mode the jackdaw became a paper weight.

PS. AND the flycatcher can fit into small plexes.

Daemun of Khanid

#17 - 2017-05-12 00:30:50 UTC
Right but the Jackdaw can be more tankier with a switch of a button, or deal damage at longer ranges. That five second mode swap is really powerful.

T3D made a mess of small plex's when they were allowed in, I don't think they should be in, but that's not here or there. =3
#DeleteTheWeak
#18 - 2017-05-12 00:40:37 UTC
Prenerf they didnt work in small, now they should. (Imo) Cant really deny that as they are now they are pretty worthless in fw. If your gonna go into a med plex youre gonna take a cruiser not a comparably weak purpose confused dessi.

Daemun of Khanid

#19 - 2017-05-12 01:19:49 UTC
Daemun Khanid wrote:
[Jackdaw, new]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Initiated Compact Warp Disruptor
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script

Light Missile Launcher II
Light Missile Launcher II
Light Missile Launcher II
Light Missile Launcher II
Light Missile Launcher II
[Empty High slot]

Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst II
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

Even with the compact mwd and long point and using geno's thats still 15 cpu over.


If you want the suitcase, drop the calefaction for an overclock II. At that point you can go for a T2 MWD as well.

If you drop the suitcase you can fit a nano or whatever and it fits.
#20 - 2017-05-12 01:23:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Daemun Khanid
Would lower the dps even further and the speed increase would be marginal. Right back to "just fly a Flycatcher." Given the sexy new model for the fly catcher/corm plus all of the above, the jackdaw just needs some real love from the "balance" dept. imo.

Daemun of Khanid

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