Warfare & Tactics

 
 

Hobgoblins and Acolytes and Warriors OH MY!

Author
Caldari State
#1 - 2017-05-16 18:59:55 UTC


So let's talk drones friends. Having a blast hunting explorers in my cloaky Astero and just want to make sure I'm maximizing my DPS. I'm running the typical PVP Astero fit including scram, web and 2 DDA's and using hobgoblin II's.

Now, there is a lot of speculation about application of damage and whether or not Gallente drones are the best choice for the job. I see suggestions to use acolytes in many places as despite the fact they have a slightly lower damage modifier, they have potentially better damage application resulting in better real world DPS.

Would test myself on SiSi if I could get an Omega clone over there (Thanks CCP!), anybody have some definitive proof as to which drones are best on similar sized targets?

It may not amount to much in frigate ganking but I plan on graduating to a Stratios soon and engaging bigger targets where knowing whether to use hammerheads or infiltrators could be the difference in a swift gank or getting caught by the calvary.


Late Night Overheating
#2 - 2017-05-17 02:52:26 UTC
Henry Tesero wrote:


So let's talk drones friends. Having a blast hunting explorers in my cloaky Astero and just want to make sure I'm maximizing my DPS. I'm running the typical PVP Astero fit including scram, web and 2 DDA's and using hobgoblin II's.

Now, there is a lot of speculation about application of damage and whether or not Gallente drones are the best choice for the job. I see suggestions to use acolytes in many places as despite the fact they have a slightly lower damage modifier, they have potentially better damage application resulting in better real world DPS.

Would test myself on SiSi if I could get an Omega clone over there (Thanks CCP!), anybody have some definitive proof as to which drones are best on similar sized targets?

It may not amount to much in frigate ganking but I plan on graduating to a Stratios soon and engaging bigger targets where knowing whether to use hammerheads or infiltrators could be the difference in a swift gank or getting caught by the calvary.




For ganking explorers I would think Acolytes would be best to shoot through the EM hole present in shields, but thermal is also usually a weakness. Keep some of each and launch depending on ship type. If you web/sram something light drones will usually be able to hit it.
#3 - 2017-05-17 04:25:09 UTC
Another thing to consider is what you are hunting, and where. If you are hunting ratters in blood raider or sansha space, acolytes are going to be at a disadvantage despite their strong points vs other drones. If you are in a wormhole, then you should probably pick based upon drone stats, where acolytes can be a good general pick for a few reasons.

While they aren't as fast as warriors, acolytes are faster than hobgoblins or wasps. While they don't have the damage modifier that hobgoblins do, they have faster mwd and orbit speeds as well as a better optimal range, so they tend to miss less due to spending more time orbiting/shooting and less time using their mwd playing catch-up and not shooting.
If you are going to use hobgoblins, you need a web and a scram, and only release them when you are in web/scram range.
Warriors are good for use against kiting frigates, though their lower damage modifier and reduced optimal range vs acolytes means that they will have trouble hitting a target they can overtake in mwd but not keep up with in orbit; I've noticed that vs targets that the acolyte can still overtake in mwd but not keep up with in orbit it will generally land more hits on its target than a warrior will because of increased optimal.

Vs a lightly tanked explo frig, acolytes will reduce shields the quickest. In gurrista, serpentis space they are pretty good vs armor tanked ships as well, since most people will plug the explosive hole, often leaving EM as the weakest resist.

Unless you are in blood raider or sansha space, acolytes should probably be your meat and potatoes drone. Hobs are good, but only if your target is webbed and scrammed.

my other nano is a polycarb

Late Night Overheating
#4 - 2017-05-17 04:39:01 UTC
Nikea Tiber wrote:
Another thing to consider is what you are hunting, and where. If you are hunting ratters in blood raider or sansha space, acolytes are going to be at a disadvantage despite their strong points vs other drones. If you are in a wormhole, then you should probably pick based upon drone stats, where acolytes can be a good general pick for a few reasons.



Very good point about knowing the damage type dealt by the NPC since ratters will stack against it. Not sure how current this is but I think its still good. Sleepers are omni tank/damage

NPC DAMAGE TYPES (TANK):
Guristas - Kinetic(95%)/Thermal(5%)
Serpentis - Thermal(50%)/Kinetic(50%)
Blood Raider - EM(50%)/Thermal(50%)
Sansha's Nation - EM(60%)/Thermal(40%)
Angel Cartel - Kinetic(35%)/Explosive(50%)/Thermal(10%)/EM(5%)
EoM - Kinetic(85%)/Thermal(15%)
Rogue Drones - Kinetic(35%)/Explosive(50%)/Thermal(10%)/EM(5%)
Mercenary - EM(35%)/Thermal(35%)/Kinetic(15%)/Explosive(15%)
The Seven - Explosive(35%)/Kinetic(35%)/Thermal(15%)/EM(15%)
Mordu Legion - Kinetic(60%)/Thermal(40%)

NPC RESISTANCES (WEAKNESSES):
Guristas - Kinetic(45%)
Serpentis - Kinetic(45%)
Blood Raider - EM(45%)
Sansha's Nation - EM(45%)
Angel Cartel - Explosive(45%)
EoM - Kinetic(40%)
Rogue Drones - EM(40%)
Mercenary - Thermal(35%)
The Seven - Thermal(30%)
Mordu Legion - Thermal(45%)/Kinetic(45%)
Atlas. Alliance
#5 - 2017-05-17 09:10:57 UTC
my general rule of thumb is that I don't use Orges, Hammerheads or Hobgoblins unless I expect the target to be webbed. I will use Acolytes for general purpose things, unless my ship is EM only in it's damage where I will use hornets, as Minmatar t2 hulls will resist the crap out of lasers. I only use Warriors if I am kiting or expect to be kited.

i don't really have hard data like the OP wanted, but from my observations. unless the target is going really slow the Gallente drones get out of range, MWD and then get back in range, leading to a great deal of missed shots. That being said I do use gallente drones a fair bit, but I will never rely on it as my only choice.

Warriors will fly past their target, get out of ranage, miss, fly back towards the target and miss again. I especially notice this when I have drone nav comps or a hull bonus to drone speed. It seems to do fine if a target is going a steady speed, or really fast, but even sitting still it will miss several shots before it settles into an orbit. All drones do that to some degree, but Warriors specifically seem to do it badly (I rarely notice this in other Minmatar drones). This might have some bias as I have mentioned, I use warriors mostly in situations where I do have a drone speed bonus, as that lets you do things like push interceptors or garmurs off with warriors.

Acolytes and hornets seem to be very well rounded to me, hornets being slower, but have a better shield tank, which I find helpful in ships like the Worm where you depend on your drones, and having the best passive tank you can on your drones really helps long fights. This however, all means I use acolytes in most circumstances where I have a limited bay, and don't knwo what I will be fighting.
Rate My Ticks
#6 - 2017-05-18 06:18:20 UTC
Henry Tesero wrote:


So let's talk drones friends. Having a blast hunting explorers in my cloaky Astero and just want to make sure I'm maximizing my DPS. I'm running the typical PVP Astero fit including scram, web and 2 DDA's and using hobgoblin II's.

Now, there is a lot of speculation about application of damage and whether or not Gallente drones are the best choice for the job. I see suggestions to use acolytes in many places as despite the fact they have a slightly lower damage modifier, they have potentially better damage application resulting in better real world DPS.

Would test myself on SiSi if I could get an Omega clone over there (Thanks CCP!), anybody have some definitive proof as to which drones are best on similar sized targets?

It may not amount to much in frigate ganking but I plan on graduating to a Stratios soon and engaging bigger targets where knowing whether to use hammerheads or infiltrators could be the difference in a swift gank or getting caught by the calvary.



Region and ship tree knowledge play the biggest part. Generally speaking, I like warriors because against your typical s***fit explorers, explosive will typically be their biggest hole overall. Against targets that tend to try and fit some tank while exploring, hobs can be better due to thermal generally being evenly spread across all 3. Acolytes can work well against explorers who try and shield fit. Unfortunately, however, is when you come across someone who's also built for taking out explorers, it can come down to whoever's able to outlast the other.
Caldari State
#7 - 2017-05-18 08:19:26 UTC
Great stuff in here, thanks all. Gonna keep a set of acolytes and hobs in the ole astero and swap'em up over the next few ganks, see how they go.
RvB - RED Federation
#8 - 2017-05-19 14:25:51 UTC
What drones you use in scram range should be up for damage types mostly. And vs even resistances its hobs>all. The reason acolytes are the better drones is because they are a lot faster and are thus useable vs everything, hobs are slow as **** and wont hit a kiter.

But if the drone speed isnt an issue pure damage types is what matter. And a astero can carry 3 sets anyways, so you can just use acolytes, warriors and hobgoblins.
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