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Full clears: Marauder > Noctis?

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#1 - 2017-05-16 23:48:08 UTC  |  Edited by: The Larold
(Reminder - this in regards to ONLY full clears. not blitzing and not cherry-picking. Every last wreck is looted and salvaged.)

I've seen people make some variant of the below suggestion for full-clearing missions, and I can't convince myself it's more efficient that just salvaging in my Golem using 1 tractor + MTU to haul things in.

They recommend:

1. Pack up in your BS and bring a bunch of MTUs. One for each pocket of each mission you plan to run before hopping in your Noctis.
2. Drop MTU in each pocket and bookmark. Kill stuff. Move on.
3. At some point well before the 2-hour expiration, hop in your noctis and hit all your bookmarks. Salvage.
4. Oh, and don't forget your Noctis storage gets eaten up by all the MTUs you have to re-collect.

Re-tracing steps seems to be expensive time-wise. Double the hops at least. I would think the noctis approach above is more expensive than the extra few minutes (per pocket) that my marauder spends clearing wrecks AFTER everything is killed.

If anyone has a lot of experience with both approaches, can you comment?
#2 - 2017-05-17 08:02:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Arcangelo DJ
Hi

What "they" recommend is exactly what I do.

1. i pack my BS (dont have marauder yet, mostly use Rattlesnake, Navy Raven, Machariel or Fleet Typhoon) with 3 or 4 MTU, and then up to full cargo with ammo and scripts.
2. i drop my MTU in every pocket, placed so it could reach any wreck in 125 km radius sphere - of course i drop it before combat.
3. i finish my mission - by that I mean I finish killing.
4. RTB - change ship to Noctis.
5. Fly Noctis to all MTUs, use Salvagers II (I have 6 salvagers, 1 tractor beam and 1 drone augmentor link in Hi slots, 2 cargo expanders in low slots - giving me cargo capacity around 1850 m3), sometimes i dont even deploy my drones.
Frankly I cant remember mission in which I brought back more than 1000m3 of salvaged cargo including MTUs - so eatng up space doesn't seem to be a problem.

As for using Marauders - my friend flies a Golem and use MTU with full flight of Salvage Drones during combat (he doesnt even have combat drones with him).

It may seems to be faster than my approach but on rare occassion he has to abandon loot because it cannot fit in cargo, and further more, savaging using drones is much slower.

As for my time - since i use salvagers mostly with salvage drones only as support salvaging is going really quick - 1 cycle per wreck, 6 salvagers, including locking time and such I have salvaging speed around 20 wrecks per minute, much quicker than speed attainable by salvage drones.

EDIT: I do my missions in Gallente space and over 90 % is in the same system, or 1 jump away. Once in blue moon i have to make 3 jumps.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#3 - 2017-05-17 16:42:29 UTC
While I was doing missions, I had a second account for salvage purposes. I generally had enough mtu's for two missions and I also keep a hauling ship in the area.

Do the mission drop the MTU's, once the first pocket is cleared you can have the salvager warp to you which will take him to the gate. I then just have it afk salvage. I used a **** fit tristan with salvage drones.. since it isn't looting you will never fill up the cargo.

I would be well into the second mission when I would be done with the salvage, so I would just jump him to me and start on the second mission. When I was done with the mission I would get the hauler and go get all the MTU's. I would be wrapping up the last bit of salvage about the time I was picking up the last mtu.. Take the loot and salvage to a station and start again.


Not everyone has a second account but I had mining alts so it was easy just to put them in a tris with drones. I tried the whole follow with the noctis thing but I hated having to manage the salvage part.. not to mention no one cares about a unfit tris with some crap drones.

If you have access to a second pc/laptop you could do this with an alpha account.

#4 - 2017-05-17 19:46:32 UTC
The Larold wrote:
2. Drop MTU in each pocket and bookmark. Kill stuff. Move on.

The problem with this step, or someone could call it balancing factor, is that anyone can scan down your MTUs and start stealing your stuff or just killing those MTUs.
#5 - 2017-05-17 23:03:37 UTC
I agree with hmskrecik, dropping MTUs in each room is just ringing a dinner bell for those pilots who love to kill "abandoned" MTUs. In fact, in my area of EVE, we have several industrialist who make a living going around and destroying mission MTUs and then selling replacement ones. Those slow and scrunchy Haulers are also targeted all the time by those looking for an easy and perhaps profitable kill.

I prefer either a Paladin or Kronos Marauder and drop a MTU as soon as I enter a room. Bastion up,release a wing of salvage drones, and destroy everything. As I munch through the NPCs, I tractor all Loot filled wrecks as well as the choice large wrecks and use my ship's salvager to target the hardest/most valuable wrecks. By the time the last enemy ship drops, my drones have plowed through the majority of the lesser wrecks, loot and re-ship the MTU as I get out of bastion, and move to the next room. If someone scans me down in my mission, I just ignore them and wait to see if they are dumb enough to go suspect in my presence (after I check local and d-scan, of course).

Both of the above Marauders have large enough cargo bays that only a few missions like "Going Berzerk" or "The Mordus Headhunters" exceed its capacity (and even then, not by much). I always pack a wing or two of lights for those pesky elite frigates if I screw up the distance when bastioning up. Dropping MTUs in each room may work in your area of EVE, but it would become crazy expensive to mission run in mine. Sure my way may take some actual concentration and effort to do, but if I wanted to completely veg out I would either mine or ship spin in station.

To buck the popular trend, I began to Rage Start instead of Rage Quit.

...and every time I get another piece of Carbon, I know exactly what CCP is getting this Christmas.

Trigger Warnings
#6 - 2017-05-18 04:30:54 UTC
i just kill everything in my golem and mtu stuff in, i dont even salvage much anymore :(
#7 - 2017-05-19 22:59:31 UTC
Buoytender Bob wrote:
I agree with hmskrecik, dropping MTUs in each room is just ringing a dinner bell for those pilots who love to kill "abandoned" MTUs. In fact, in my area of EVE, we have several industrialist who make a living going around and destroying mission MTUs and then selling replacement ones. Those slow and scrunchy Haulers are also targeted all the time by those looking for an easy and perhaps profitable kill.

I prefer either a Paladin or Kronos Marauder and drop a MTU as soon as I enter a room. Bastion up,release a wing of salvage drones, and destroy everything. As I munch through the NPCs, I tractor all Loot filled wrecks as well as the choice large wrecks and use my ship's salvager to target the hardest/most valuable wrecks. By the time the last enemy ship drops, my drones have plowed through the majority of the lesser wrecks, loot and re-ship the MTU as I get out of bastion, and move to the next room. If someone scans me down in my mission, I just ignore them and wait to see if they are dumb enough to go suspect in my presence (after I check local and d-scan, of course).

Both of the above Marauders have large enough cargo bays that only a few missions like "Going Berzerk" or "The Mordus Headhunters" exceed its capacity (and even then, not by much). I always pack a wing or two of lights for those pesky elite frigates if I screw up the distance when bastioning up. Dropping MTUs in each room may work in your area of EVE, but it would become crazy expensive to mission run in mine. Sure my way may take some actual concentration and effort to do, but if I wanted to completely veg out I would either mine or ship spin in station.


I do it EXACTLY like you do, except that once everything is dead, my OCD needs to clear out the remaining wrecks. I use my tractor to pull in wrecks as far out as possible within the 48km range, so that the MTU can focus on anything PAST 48km that my tractor can't reach. If I can get over my OCD, my income would probably be higher, but that's not my priority. Fun and relaxation is. Missions are what give me that. I think I started this thread mostly out of curiosity - see if there was anything I was missing.
#8 - 2017-05-19 23:00:52 UTC
Tanuki Kittybeta wrote:
i just kill everything in my golem and mtu stuff in, i dont even salvage much anymore :(


"someday when I have time" (20 years), I've been wanting to keep a simple table containing the size of wreck I have killed, the loot value it contains, and the salvage value it drops. If I can determine that salvage value is like less than X% of the overall mission value once turned in, I could probably turn off the full-clear OCD switch. I think X would need to be somewhere less than 10 but maybe above 5.
#9 - 2017-05-20 03:40:50 UTC
The Larold wrote:
Tanuki Kittybeta wrote:
i just kill everything in my golem and mtu stuff in, i dont even salvage much anymore :(


"someday when I have time" (20 years), I've been wanting to keep a simple table containing the size of wreck I have killed, the loot value it contains, and the salvage value it drops. If I can determine that salvage value is like less than X% of the overall mission value once turned in, I could probably turn off the full-clear OCD switch. I think X would need to be somewhere less than 10 but maybe above 5.



Well, a quick check of my main mission hub hanger shows over 5 Billion isk worth of Contaminated Lorentz Fluid and 3 Billion isk of Burned Logic Circuits sitting around. That's after lots of industry use and selling. Add the Billions more in other salvaged odds and sods and you have some idea about what it takes to start considering yourself OCD P Let me know if you arrive at a practical formula.

To buck the popular trend, I began to Rage Start instead of Rage Quit.

...and every time I get another piece of Carbon, I know exactly what CCP is getting this Christmas.

Gallente Federation
#10 - 2017-05-26 17:48:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Orin Solette
I find it easiest to just pull my Noctis out because it's made for tractoring and salvaging as quickly as possible. I don't want to carry around MTUs that can be easily targeted while I'm somewhere else or having to have the cargo space for the MTUs. It's quite relaxing as it breaks up the monotony of doing the same missions over and over.

Not saying I calculated my isk/hr and I'm not saying it's the most efficient, but missions are no the most efficient isk anyway. Just do what's fun.
Of Questionable Repute
#11 - 2017-05-26 18:30:25 UTC
When I would run missions in nullsec, I would always bookmark and go back with a noctis with a cloak on it, and use a BS with a utility high for a cloak as well. Since those MTUs can be scanned down, and in the 60 seconds you are in Bastion you could be scanned down. I still wanted to do all clears though instead of blitzing for LP because you fight navy and DED alot which pay via tags and the minerals from reprocessing the modules would let me easily build ammo, etc.

in Highsec though, it really depends on where I am. If I am running Sisters of Eve missions in that system not far from Hek, I am going to use a Marauder, people will scan your MTUs down and shoot them with relative frequency there. If I were in a far off system for example Ordion I would take advantage of the fact that the Rattlesnake can outdamage the Vargur due to it's split weapons loadout and just drop MTUs to be collected and salvaged later.

I know when I use a Rattlesnake plus MTUs/noctis, and then salvage that I make more isk per hour than with the Vargur, but I can't be certain that if that is due to the extra damage, or it being more efficient to drop MTUs. I make most of my money from anoms now, and I never use a marauder in a Haven or Sanctum.
#12 - 2017-05-26 20:30:48 UTC
I use a Noctis with my second account; tech II tractor beams and salvagers do the job pretty fast.
I don't even bother with MTUs since a while.
#13 - 2017-05-27 13:07:37 UTC
I use two accounts, one kills mission, at the same time I have the second account salvaging the completed pockets etc.
I you have two accounts and two monitors definitely better than the MTU and go back for them option.
#14 - 2017-05-28 12:33:39 UTC
I just drop and pick-up as I go unless I need to move, then I scope and move. Loot's not really worth leaving a vulnerable MTU by itself to even reship to another boat.

Oddly enough, in another thread I commented in saying the Noctis is fine with respects to its stats, but it reality it's not fine. Thing is, the stats are not the problem (though admittidly it could use some more maneuverability and an upgrade to its sensors). The problem is that the MTU will always be cheaper in terms of time compared to the Noctis because it means you don't really need to sacrifice virtually any extra time in using MTU's and having to switch ships will always take more time in the end. The only downside to the MTU in comparison is that you give up much of the loot which, as I said before, isn't really much loss to begin with. Using an MTU like I do, you don't spend more than a few seconds more than you would if you were ignoring loot and salvage completely and the loot I do recover is a pretty fair trade. Using a Noctis wouldn't get me much more, but would add several minutes that I wouldn't need otherwise to a mission. Doesn't really sound like much, but it's far more costly in time either way.

Unless loot becomes more valuable in a literal sense or if somehow CCP, in there infinite wisdom, one day decided it would be cute to allow Marauders to carry and jettison a fully equipped Noctis after a room is cleared, an MTU will always be a better choice in my eyes.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."

Caldari State
#15 - 2017-05-28 16:31:23 UTC
The deal breaker for an MTU is the time you spend for a full clear. If you can full clear a Pirate Invasion in 15 minutes the MTU did not have much time to work. Usually it is far more efficient to come back in a Noctis in that case.

But then, talking about efficiency, why bother with looting at all?
#16 - 2017-05-29 05:18:01 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:
The Larold wrote:
2. Drop MTU in each pocket and bookmark. Kill stuff. Move on.

The problem with this step, or someone could call it balancing factor, is that anyone can scan down your MTUs and start stealing your stuff or just killing those MTUs.


Can confirm.

MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - June 12 2017 - Vocal Local 5

MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide

#17 - 2017-05-30 16:49:09 UTC
for the carebear sleeping inside everyone of you, according to my observations, over a very large numbers of HS mission, Salvage loot is equal almost to 35-45% of the overall value once sold at the market of the loot value + salvage value wich isnt so bad.

im always full clearing and full salvaging with 2 accounts: a dps one and a salvge/looging one. i do skip the meaning less mission like "cargo delivery".

#18 - 2017-06-03 15:45:23 UTC
My system is to clear the mission, then come back with the Noctis to tractor/salvage the wrecks. No anchoring, no wasted cargo capacity in the BS.
The time-consuming part is sorting through the loot afterwards to figure out what's worth selling, what's worth hoarding, and what's going to be fed through the reprocessing and used to make ammo.

Economic PVP

#19 - 2017-06-03 19:39:08 UTC  |  Edited by: guigui lechat
Vulvona Ride-in wrote:
for the carebear sleeping inside everyone of you, according to my observations, over a very large numbers of HS mission, Salvage loot is equal almost to 35-45% of the overall value once sold at the market of the loot value + salvage value wich isnt so bad.

im always full clearing and full salvaging with 2 accounts: a dps one and a salvge/looging one. i do skip the meaning less mission like "cargo delivery".



never skip the cargo delivery . use a fast inty to do it very fast. warp in, loot, warp out. easy standing, lp, money, and a 16th of storyline.

I dont know how you compute your %
so far for me the loot+salvage of L4s is very low :
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/guiguilechat/EveOnline/master/Database/src/main/resources/L4s/result.txt

Skorpynekomimi wrote:
The time-consuming part is sorting through the loot afterwards to figure out what's worth selling, what's worth hoarding, and what's going to be fed through the reprocessing and used to make ammo.


filters for that.I do have filter with "meta>=4 , name=compact, name=restrained, meta==0" . actually I have equip | craft | reproc M1 | reproc m23 filters. I put the items in cans and when I need I go to a cita and reprocess.
But that's not very often.
#20 - 2017-06-08 20:33:08 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:
The Larold wrote:
2. Drop MTU in each pocket and bookmark. Kill stuff. Move on.

The problem with this step, or someone could call it balancing factor, is that anyone can scan down your MTUs and start stealing your stuff or just killing those MTUs.



Some punk called "Call Me Betty" looted and blew away two MTUs during a mission. I came up on him when in the mission, and realized I couldn't lay a finger on him. What dung!

I'm back to the Noctis. MTUs are a big waste of money when all you're doing is feeding this generation of "Ninja salvagers".
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