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[119.6] Standup Hyasyoda Research Lab

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C C P Alliance
#1 - 2017-05-17 16:44:30 UTC
Good afternoon everyone.

In our recent dev blog we mentioned faction starbase industry structures in the following paragraph:
Quote:
There are two faction Starbase industry structures that will be receiving special attention during this time: the Thukker Component Assembly Array and the Hyasyoda Research Laboratory. These structures will eventually be replaced by new Upwell items with a transition process beginning over the summer. More details about these replacement items will be announced as we get closer to their deployment date.


Well today is more details day!

This thread will cover discussion on the new faction service module that will replace the Hyasyoda Research Laboratory structures.

For anyone not familiar with them, the Hyasyoda Research Laboratories are special starbase lab structures that provide extra speed bonuses for ME and TE blueprint research. They are obtained from one possible ending of the Caldari epic arc mission chain.

In the upcoming June release we will be adding a new version of the Research Lab service module to replace this structure. This service module will provide exactly the same services as a normal Standup Research Lab I, but uses 16.7% less PWG and 8.3% less fuel.

Single run BPCs for these new service modules will be provided from the same mission that provided the old Hyasyoda lab structure.
Build requirements for this new service module will be one T1 Lab service module plus 10 Science Graduates.

For owners of the existing Hyasyoda Research Laboratories that wish to switch to the new service module we will also adjust the reprocessing output of the old structures to provide more materials back and provide a special "Hyasyoda Research Lab Technical Data Chip" that can be accessed to gain BPCs for the new service module.

The existing Hyasyoda Research Laboratories will continue to operate normally in June. Under the current plan the research speed bonuses of the existing Hyasyoda Research Laboratories will be phased out in August so we advise existing users to make plans to switch over the next few months.

These new service modules will be available on SISI soon when we deploy the 119.6 release for testing and we encourage interested players to experiment with them there.

This thread will be the place to ask questions and provide feedback on these new rigs. Thanks!

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

C C P Alliance
#2 - 2017-05-17 16:44:36 UTC
Reserved

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
#3 - 2017-05-17 17:14:40 UTC
A typo for the speed bonuses not being retained, or is the only benefit of this service module truly less PG and fuel consumption?

True Slave Foundations Overseer

ϕ

Unspoken Alliance.
#4 - 2017-05-17 17:21:24 UTC
Ghost Hunter wrote:
A typo for the speed bonuses not being retained, or is the only benefit of this service module truly less PG and fuel consumption?


Just fuel and pg
WAFFLES.
#5 - 2017-05-17 17:24:54 UTC
Why did you keep the bonus for ME on the thukker but not the speed bonus of this? Those two features are the reasons they are used.
The-Culture
#6 - 2017-05-17 18:03:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Tavion Aksmis
Kuhn Arashi wrote:
Why did you keep the bonus for ME on the thukker but not the speed bonus of this? Those two features are the reasons they are used.


I think I can answer that.

Thukker bonuses are there to make lowsec a competetive place to build capitals in to rival the nullsec bonuses to ore reprocessing and material efficiency rigs.

Hyasyoda Research Lab is nothing but a better research lab, and not in the game for any specific balance reason, my guess is they want to tone down how good this module is. But in the end it does feel like it's very underwhelming. The PG bonus is barely worth anything. -8.3% fuel consumption is something in the ballpark of 10 million saved in fuel a month, not insignificant but also not really worth the faction/story-line tag, perhaps double it to -16.6%?
WAFFLES.
#7 - 2017-05-17 18:47:33 UTC
Tavion Aksmis wrote:
Kuhn Arashi wrote:
Why did you keep the bonus for ME on the thukker but not the speed bonus of this? Those two features are the reasons they are used.


I think I can answer that.

Thukker bonuses are there to make lowsec a competetive place to build capitals in to rival the nullsec bonuses to ore reprocessing and material efficiency rigs.

Hyasyoda Research Lab is nothing but a better research lab, and not in the game for any specific balance reason, my guess is they want to tone down how good this module is. But in the end it does feel like it's very underwhelming. The PG bonus is barely worth anything. -8.3% fuel consumption is something in the ballpark of 10 million saved in fuel a month, not insignificant but also not really worth the faction/story-line tag, perhaps double it to -16.6%?


Yeah, I think the bonus is insignificant at the moment. The increase in effeciency for researching in ECs compared to even the hyasyoda is pretty impressive, so much so that they increased base times for capital stuff. So bringing that bonus over would undo what they've already done.

However, the bonus it offers as proposed just doesn't seem worth it to bother.
Synergy of Steel
#8 - 2017-05-17 19:00:37 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The existing Hyasyoda Research Laboratories will continue to operate normally in June. Under the current plan the research speed bonuses of the existing Hyasyoda Research Laboratories will be phased out in August so we advise existing users to make plans to switch over the next few months.!


This means the existing modules won't get converted?
And all the modules i bought are nearly worthless?
Unspoken Alliance.
#9 - 2017-05-17 19:19:09 UTC
ZeRonin wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The existing Hyasyoda Research Laboratories will continue to operate normally in June. Under the current plan the research speed bonuses of the existing Hyasyoda Research Laboratories will be phased out in August so we advise existing users to make plans to switch over the next few months.!


This means the existing modules won't get converted?
And all the modules i bought are nearly worthless?


No, it means read the paragraph directly above what you quoted
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#10 - 2017-05-17 21:34:02 UTC
so all it does is use less fuel and PG now?

no bonus to ME or TE research speed?

thats.. underwhelming.
#11 - 2017-05-17 22:04:11 UTC
Nice mechanic for the conversion! But, will it be left this way forever? When Starbases (control towers) are finally reimbursed in some manner, should all the old labs (and thukker arrays) be removed completely and turned into "data chips" ?

I still wonder about the final disposition of Sov Blockade Units, I once heard they might be removed completely, and turned into Territory Claim Units.
Nornir Empire
#12 - 2017-05-17 22:10:53 UTC
Hyasyoda Labs currently aren't built and are not reprocessable, what do you mean by more materials?
#13 - 2017-05-18 06:30:45 UTC
Is there a specific reason, why it will become a module and not a rig like the "Thukker Capital Component Array rig"?

If it has to be rigged, it is "lost" if the station is unanchored, destroyed or abandoned...

Keeps the demand in all space (Highsec to WH) on a higher level and makes it something special. The bonus can be more or less the same.

x % reduction in Engineering Service Module fuel consumption
x % reduction in manufacturing and science job required ISK cost
Hedonistic Imperative
#14 - 2017-05-19 06:09:02 UTC
CCP Fozzie, do you expect the ISK reward for selling one of the lab BPCs to give be in synch with the other Epic Arc rewards? If yes all good from my point of view if not then can you look at changing the line to add a bonus ISK for the last mission or something like that.
Ghost Legion.
#15 - 2017-05-19 14:35:54 UTC
one question:

on an astrahus, if you rip out (unfit) the standup cloning center service module, you DESTROY all installed clones.

does the same happen with industrial (research) jobs when i rip out the (current) research service module?

if yes; can i install the new hyasyoda in parallel to the existing one, so as to not lose jobs?

whats the proper procedure here? my azbel has hundreds of jobs running...


also, please buff the module a bit more. doubling the fuel reduction bonus seems like a really good idea.
#16 - 2017-05-20 08:22:26 UTC
klana depp wrote:

whats the proper procedure here? my azbel has hundreds of jobs running...



You have got an Azbel running hundreds of jobs?

Check it out on Sisi :)

The module will be avaialable soon!
#17 - 2017-05-20 08:37:23 UTC
not sure if just PG and fuel is enough at least not at the levels listed. i get that they may be to strong if they stack with the EC but there has to be a better way
#18 - 2017-05-20 17:15:31 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Single run BPCs for these new service modules will be provided from the same mission that provided the old Hyasyoda lab structure.

... "Hyasyoda Research Lab Technical Data Chip" that can be accessed to gain BPCs for the new service module.


A BPC for the lab will drop.
Existing labs can be reprocessed and will "generate" a data chip?
why is it that complicated?

I do not get any BPC or data chip for any reprocessed faction item in EVE.

Keep it simple....

Hyasyoda Research Lab BPCs will be converted to new BPCs.

Reimburst all packed / unpacked / assembled / used / in Jita laying "Hyasyoda Research Labs" by a BPC of the new module
and adjust the recycling material to the same of the T1 version of the modul.

#19 - 2017-05-20 21:55:27 UTC
Gotta admit, this is slightly underwhelming. Personally I'd like to see one of the following:

  1. Simply increase the fuel reduction. As is it's saving less than a block an hour on an EC. At least make it a full block? Maybe even go crazy with two?
  2. Allow invention and research from the Hyasoda. Increase fuel use to something like 75% of the combined modules (or more; that may be too generous). At least it would be interesting and open a slot for another service module (not that I know what you'd do with it under most circumstances but it would at least make the Hyasoda unique).
  3. Keep a small fuel reduction and/or scrap it entirely but introduce a small (maybe 3-5%?) time reduction. Less than a rig but enough to make the Hyasoda unique. If you wanted to go all out, combine this with (2) above.


As is, I'm going to have trouble justifying installing a Hyasoda on an existing EC simply from the hassle of finding a time when there are no jobs running. On a busy public structure that becomes very nearly impossible.
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