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Titans Nerf :) must see this :)

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#41 Posted: 2012.02.13 21:59
baltec1 wrote:


As opposed to;

dump titans, everything dies?

Tactics and fleet comp are useless vs such things. There are no ships with enough firepower to confront them without getting alphaed at such a rate that the DPS will become meaningless very quickly. It doesnt matter if you are MWDing or not, titans will apha battleships and battlescruisers, while the ships that cant get alpha'ed will get torn apart by enemy subcaps and lack the firepower required to bring down a titan anyway.

The only counter to titans are more titans and because of the speed at which they are being built and the lack of deaths the titan blob will only get bigger with time. We are now playing titans online.


This or urbad

Titans need a nerf, need to be more expensive, and need to be made less ********
The pie is a tautology
Pandemic Legion
#42 Posted: 2012.02.13 21:59
Reilly Duvolle wrote:

I've flown enough light dictors to know I'll probably die in fights like these. Its just the way it is. Drop bubble, mwd out to get free of the bubble so u can at least save your pod. Happned more than once.

But the point to threads like these is: No amount of killmails will prove that I, You, Baltec or anyone else are right or wrong objectively, because there are multiple possible explanations as to why stuff happens in EVE. The EVE combat system have so many parametres and factors that affect the end result, that killmails are virtually unable to prove anything.

Only way to do it is to jump on SISI and conduct carefully controlled experiments in multiple iterations.



Excellent Backpedal Space Friend. Great use of the 'Religion Cop Out' (Prove there isn't, and until you do, I obviously must be right).
#43 Posted: 2012.02.13 22:00
baltec1 wrote:

As opposed to;

dump titans, everything dies?

Tactics and fleet comp are useless vs such things. There are no ships with enough firepower to confront them without getting alphaed at such a rate that the DPS will become meaningless very quickly. It doesnt matter if you are MWDing or not, titans will apha battleships and battlescruisers, while the ships that cant get alpha'ed will get torn apart by enemy subcaps and lack the firepower required to bring down a titan anyway.

The only counter to titans are more titans and because of the speed at which they are being built and the lack of deaths the titan blob will only get bigger with time. We are now playing titans online.


Titans are not OP unless used en-masse. So the question is right, but the prefferred Goon solution (death to all supercaps) is wrong. Its not the ships that are the problem, its how they are used. Besides, in a mature game like EVE, you you have to evolve with the players, adding stuff, not taking stuff away. So, instead of getting rid of the supers, introduce new capital ships that can create a truly rock-paper-scissors environment for capital ships.
#44 Posted: 2012.02.13 22:02  |  Edited by: Reilly Duvolle
Xolve wrote:
Excellent Backpedal Space Friend. Great use of the 'Religion Cop Out' (Prove there isn't, and until you do, I obviously must be right).


Its not backpedaling. You can take virtually any killmail in EVE, think abouth it for about 30 seconds and be able to come up with 5 diffrent scenarios for what happend exactly. Killmails dont prove anything. EVER.
#45 Posted: 2012.02.13 22:03
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
introduce new capital ships that can create a truly rock-paper-scissors environment for capital ships.


Which creates unnecessary complexity and allows problems to crop up in billions of other places.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say the whole game would be better off without the massive ships, or if the ships were in a supportive role, and not the front-line role.
The pie is a tautology
Goonswarm Federation
#46 Posted: 2012.02.13 22:06
Reilly Duvolle wrote:


Titans are not OP unless used en-masse. So the question is right, but the prefferred Goon solution (death to all supercaps) is wrong. Its not the ships that are the problem, its how they are used. Besides, in a mature game like EVE, you you have to evolve with the players, adding stuff, not taking stuff away. So, instead of getting rid of the supers, introduce new capital ships that can create a truly rock-paper-scissors environment for capital ships.


Or nerf titans so that they cannot kill subcaps while making them fantastic cap killers and fleet boosters. They dont have to be deathstars to be useful to a fleet.
#47 Posted: 2012.02.13 22:06
Paragon Renegade wrote:

Which creates unnecessary complexity and allows problems to crop up in billions of other places.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say the whole game would be better off without the massive ships, or if the ships were in a supportive role, and not the front-line role.


In that case, you are ALSO saying that this games would be better without its veterans. Personally I disagree. Leaving people with nothing to train for would see an exodus of the very same people which this game relies on to produce its signature content.
#48 Posted: 2012.02.13 22:07
baltec1 wrote:

Or nerf titans so that they cannot kill subcaps while making them fantastic cap killers and fleet boosters. They dont have to be deathstars to be useful to a fleet.


Its gone too far for that. That could have been an option in 2008 when dominion came along. Now, there are just to many of them.
Goonswarm Federation
#49 Posted: 2012.02.13 22:10  |  Edited by: baltec1
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Or nerf titans so that they cannot kill subcaps while making them fantastic cap killers and fleet boosters. They dont have to be deathstars to be useful to a fleet.


Its gone too far for that. That could have been an option in 2008 when dominion came along. Now, there are just to many of them.


Who cares what kind of numbers there are if they fall into a more balanced roll of fleet support and become vulnerable to subcaps? More of them will die for a start and they wont get used in such great numbers.

Once these get fixed CCP should never again bring about a ship with such power because people will blob with them and price is no barrier.
#50 Posted: 2012.02.13 22:12
Reilly Duvolle wrote:

In that case, you are ALSO saying that this games would be better without its veterans. Personally I disagree. Leaving people with nothing to train for would see an exodus of the very same people which this game relies on to produce its signature content.



The veterans would fly other ships vastly better than the others, would have better capabilities in terms of fittings and replacements.....

And if I recall, there are decades of skills without the supercap skills, the veterans can adapt
The pie is a tautology
#51 Posted: 2012.02.13 22:17
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

As opposed to;

dump titans, everything dies?

Tactics and fleet comp are useless vs such things. There are no ships with enough firepower to confront them without getting alphaed at such a rate that the DPS will become meaningless very quickly. It doesnt matter if you are MWDing or not, titans will apha battleships and battlescruisers, while the ships that cant get alpha'ed will get torn apart by enemy subcaps and lack the firepower required to bring down a titan anyway.

The only counter to titans are more titans and because of the speed at which they are being built and the lack of deaths the titan blob will only get bigger with time. We are now playing titans online.


Titans are not OP unless used en-masse. So the question is right, but the prefferred Goon solution (death to all supercaps) is wrong. Its not the ships that are the problem, its how they are used. Besides, in a mature game like EVE, you you have to evolve with the players, adding stuff, not taking stuff away. So, instead of getting rid of the supers, introduce new capital ships that can create a truly rock-paper-scissors environment for capital ships.

yep. nerfing is lame.

besides, why shouldn't a huge, very expensive ship be able to easily win against a smaller much cheaper ship? it makes sense. Your frigate shouldn't be able to take out a titan, or even a battlecruiser. That's like a dude with a knife going up against a tank.
#52 Posted: 2012.02.13 22:17
baltec1 wrote:
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
for that. That could have been an option in 2008 when dominion came along. Now, there are just to many of them.


Who cares what kind of numbers there are if they fall into a more balanced roll of fleet support and become vulnerable to subcaps?

More of them will die for a start.


Who cares? I guess most titan owners care? And titan heavy alliances? I mean how many fleetboosters would a fleet need exactly?

Its just too many of them, and they want to play too.

Now I dont think you are ever going to agree with me on this Baltec, because we are not discussing the same thing.

I am discussing game design. You are not. You are a Goon lobbyist, which by definition means that you will hold the point of view most beneficial to the in-game Goon interests. And presently my friend, those interests include a game preferably without titans at all, but secondary titans that have been nerfed into oblivion.
#53 Posted: 2012.02.13 22:19
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
You are a Goon lobbyist, which by definition means that you will hold the point of view most beneficial to the in-game Goon interests. And presently my friend, those interests include a game preferably without titans at all, but secondary titans that have been nerfed into oblivion.


Something Awful gets **** done
The pie is a tautology
Goonswarm Federation
#54 Posted: 2012.02.13 22:29
Reilly Duvolle wrote:


Who cares? I guess most titan owners care? And titan heavy alliances? I mean how many fleetboosters would a fleet need exactly?

Its just too many of them, and they want to play too.

Now I dont think you are ever going to agree with me on this Baltec, because we are not discussing the same thing.

I am discussing game design. You are not. You are a Goon lobbyist, which by definition means that you will hold the point of view most beneficial to the in-game Goon interests. And presently my friend, those interests include a game preferably without titans at all, but secondary titans that have been nerfed into oblivion.


I want fights that dont require the most titans to win. I want new aliances taking 0.0 on and winning which they currently cant do. I want the 99% of pilots who are out in 0.0 to matter not the 1% in god ships.

Even if I was not in goons I would be saying this because this hurts the game. The overpowered supercaps resulted in a stagnation of 0.0 for a year and a half untill they got nerfed. The exact same is going to happen if titans are not delt with as the 0.0 powerblocks hide behind their cynojammers and new alliances are faced with an impossible task.

The titan pilots trained for a FOTM and like all the FOTM before they will get nerfed and only they will cry about it. Perhaps the funds used on titan construction can be used to fund ships that everyone can use and we will get real fights based on clever tactics and fleet setups again.
#55 Posted: 2012.02.13 22:33
baltec1 wrote:


I want fights that dont require the most titans to win. I want new aliances taking 0.0 on and winning which they currently cant do. I want the 99% of pilots who are out in 0.0 to matter not the 1% in god ships.

Even if I was not in goons I would be saying this because this hurts the game. The overpowered supercaps resulted in a stagnation of 0.0 for a year and a half untill they got nerfed. The exact same is going to happen if titans are not delt with as the 0.0 powerblocks hide behind their cynojammers and new alliances are faced with an impossible task.

The titan pilots trained for a FOTM and like all the FOTM before they will get nerfed and only they will cry about it. Perhaps the funds used on titan construction can be used to fund ships that everyone can use and we will get real fights based on clever tactics and fleet setups again.


If this was the case, I wonder why any solution to add to the game rather that detract from it is the wrong solution?

Well you dont need to answer that, because I know Lol
Goonswarm Federation
#56 Posted: 2012.02.13 22:37  |  Edited by: baltec1
Reilly Duvolle wrote:


If this was the case, I wonder why any solution to add to the game rather that detract from it is the wrong solution?

Well you dont need to answer that, because I know Lol


The new battlecruisers have been embraced by all and are a fantastic addition to the game as they are balanced. Adding new things should not stop, but sometimes things do need to be taken away to improve the game. We do not want titans removed from the game just their ability to wipe out everything before them.
Pandemic Legion
#57 Posted: 2012.02.13 22:38
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Killmails dont prove anything. EVER.


API verified killmails don't mean ships exploded, got it.

Please, I implore you, tell me more. Lol
Cult of War
#58 Posted: 2012.02.13 22:39  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
I say just make the resources required to build titans reach the point of ridiculousness. So ridiculous that even the most efficient botting and RMT alliance would take 5 years to build and that's if they did nothing but try to build a titan.

Or just stop them from being built for several years. Eventually people will be too afraid of losing them to take them into combat or the majority are eventually destroyed and only a select few will remain.

That or add something to counter titans. Pretty much every ship in the game has a ship that can either match it or completely counter it.

Hell I know I will take some flak for this but maybe when DUST 514 comes out we should be able to hire people to launch boarding parties on Titans and Supercaps in general, destroying them from the inside.
Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
#59 Posted: 2012.02.13 22:45
baltec1 wrote:


The new battlecruisers have been embraced by all and are a fantastic addition to the game as they are balanced. Adding new things should not stop, but sometimes things do need to be taken away to improve the game. We do not want titans removed from the game just their ability to wipe out everything before them.



I would be more inclined to trust your sincerity if you or any other goon/test member talking in these threads werent ONLY talking about changes that would be a massive benefit to your alliances in-game.

Personally I dont think that is a coincidence. So forgive me when I call bullshit Big smile
Pandemic Legion
#60 Posted: 2012.02.13 22:48
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


The new battlecruisers have been embraced by all and are a fantastic addition to the game as they are balanced. Adding new things should not stop, but sometimes things do need to be taken away to improve the game. We do not want titans removed from the game just their ability to wipe out everything before them.



I would be more inclined to trust your sincerity if you or any other goon/test member talking in these threads werent ONLY talking about changes that would be a massive benefit to your alliances in-game.

Personally I dont think that is a coincidence. So forgive me when I call bullshit Big smile


TEST, have titans? In my EvE? This will end well.


:t1trimark:
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