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Killboards: what additional data would be cool?

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C C P Alliance
#1 Posted: 2012.02.23 15:52
I'm doing some proof-of-concept work right now which involves exploring possible changes we could make to the combat data we deliver via the API.

What sorts of data could we provide to make killboards better? I'm not really worrying about technical constraints at this stage, I'm just trying to build a list of interesting data we could be providing, so let your imaginations run a little bit wild!

Thanks,
-Greyscale
#2 Posted: 2012.02.23 16:42
Atm most kill stats only show what was on the killmails wich in most cases doesnt tell a full story on the actual fight.

What be nice is to know what was on grid at the time of the fight so that 10 ppl killing 2 things out of a 20man gang and not lose anything actualy shows as 10 ppl killing 2 things out of a 20man gang and not just a simple 10ppl ganking 2 ships randomly.

I know this is prolly a near impossible thing to do and most likely cause more stress to the servers to add this sort of information to killmails n stuff.

Killboards have multiple functions, one being the most common one to brag but its a nice place to see what your corp/alliance has killed and lost and if possible to see what sorta fights they had. But without losing anything u cant realy see what they where actualy fighting.

If there was a way to give full fight details to show on killboards that would basicly make the killboard complete.

i cant think of anything else
#3 Posted: 2012.02.23 17:03  |  Edited by: Shandir
Full combat information - not just the weapon that did most damage per player (or whatever algorithm you use to determine which weapon you use), but rather every weapon/offensive module that was used on the victim.

Correct ship information - not the ship the player was in at the moment of killmail creation, but rather the ship the player was in when they used each weapon displayed.

-
Yes, this probably means you'll need to generate killmails pro-actively (when PvP combat is initiated), rather than reactively(when PvP combat ends in a kill)

Edit - PS: Is ship/weapon/damage dealt information accurate at the moment? Last time I actively cared about the details on my killmails, they were well known to be completely useless (damage dealt was significantly wrong, attacking ships were often incorrect, weapons shown were a bit random)
#4 Posted: 2012.02.23 17:09  |  Edited by: Dragonaire
For the attackers it would be nice if the damage was broke down into the multiple weapon types used. Right now it may return that your single light drone did 10k when it was took out after it's first shot by a smart bomb and it was your turrets that did all the damage P This would also help people really see which of their weapon systems are the best plus would help victims plan for their next encounter with the same group. This would be really useful during after action reviews when planning electronic warfare or targeting priority.
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#5 Posted: 2012.02.23 17:11
Logis onto killmails. Yesterday. Every time a logi fits a gun for harvesting killmails, god kills a kitten.
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#6 Posted: 2012.02.23 17:32
i know you asked about what additional data is needed, but i'd rather like to point out a few problems we are having. As you can see most of those problems are based on manual posted classic killmail:

Verifying Killmails,
there is no process that allows us to verify killmails. Now one could assume that only allowing Killmails synced through the API would solve the problem, but it does not. We currently have Killlogs that allow us to import mails if single players or of corporations, we do not get kills through the API that one of the players of such entity is only involved in.
Quite often players, corps or alliances work together on a basis that span over the horizon of those, meaning If for example two alliances hotdrop a third together, we end up with our own api keys not covering our own involvement.
Sharing the API keys on a level where everyone has all keys that are relevant to someone who might or might not get involved with your kills is a nightmare.
The current "solution" is to feed from other killboards, which works, but allows for injecting fakes, and even worse, if you inject one fake it will distribute to a huge chunk of all killboards, cause to some extend most killboards are interlinked somehow.


Time
The timestamps on Killmails are to the minute, it would be better if it was to the second.

Localisation / renaming stuff
this is one of the largest annoyances to killboards. to be able to use pasted mails we have to parse the copy-paste killmails which with all the localisation going on already is horrible. You guys regulary changing names of items is even worse.

Unknown/None
Killmails over the years have not been consistent what to report if someone is not in alliance for example. Even worse, the words that have been used to mark this state resolve through the name resolution in the API to characters.

Unknown Weapons
Sometimes its not clear what weapon was used by the character, sometimes it even contains a reference to the ship rather than to the weapon. This is crap.


EVE releases
Changes to names or new items are not available *before* an eve extension comes out that change stuff, so killboards get ****** on those releases. We could use a datadump *ahead* of the patch so we can prepare our killboards to be ready to an eve extension.


Location
The one "more data" thing i can see:
It would be awesome to be able to know where someone was in the system when he died, but i guess thats



Thats all i can think off right now, but i guess i can come up with a few more things when i have some time.
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#7 Posted: 2012.02.23 17:42
Peter Powers wrote:
i know you asked about what additional data is needed, but i'd rather like to point out a few problems we are having. As you can see most of those problems are based on manual posted classic killmail:

Verifying Killmails,
there is no process that allows us to verify killmails. Now one could assume that only allowing Killmails synced through the API would solve the problem, but it does not.


private key signed killmails Blink

So they can be verified with the public key.
No Holes Barred
#8 Posted: 2012.02.23 18:17
I've asked CCP Masterplan several times, but please put the x,y,z coords of the ship that died on the KM. Bonus points for the involved parties coords.

Having that data would let people build pretty flash (or html 5) animations of what happened in the battle.
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No Holes Barred
#9 Posted: 2012.02.23 19:10
-Correct shiptype, while it is funny to see pods killing ships with 1400's, we all know this didn't really happen. (or did it!)

-Correct weapon information, it seems like the most common weapon type used in fights is 'Unknown'. I wish I could find some of these on market, they seem popular. (Peter Powers, although I had this in mind before I even read his post)

-More weapon information? Show what damage was done with missiles, with guns, with drones, what ewar modules were activated on the target, etc.

-LOGI! Logisitics pilots involved with killmails (amount repped or something, I'm not sure, there was a whole thread on this wa while back).

- +1 for the idea of all ships on grid being involved in a battle, not just the two that were ganked (DarkXeRoX)

- +1 for timestamps to the second (Peter Powers)

- +1 for location (where in the solar system he died, xyz coords, something, Peter Powers)


A question for you, out of curiosity Grayscale, do you guys keep all old killmails? Our API only fetches back so far (50 I think it is). I'm just wondering if CCP throws out old killmails that can no longer be fetched, or if there is a server somewhere that dutifully logs and keeps every killmail from all time?
Northern Coalition.
#10 Posted: 2012.02.23 20:02
Amount of damage dealt by the 'victim'.

Amount repped by all parties (logis or self).

Sum of the skillpoints for both columns.

Who took the first shot and length of engagement.

I've also always wanted to see a "date commissioned" on ships... back to when they were assembled and rigged. Wonder how many ships are out there flying around since 2005?



Goonswarm Federation
#11 Posted: 2012.02.23 20:09  |  Edited by: PsyKzz
This is going to cause hate, but i'm getting this point out there now.

- Remove killmails and leave them API only.
A lot of applications use the api already and with eve online is moving on, by moving things away from user input will can reduce the need for verification and errors.

- As peter said with localisation, remove item names and use IDs...
The rest of the API provides details in this method and we can mix in with a eve static database to get the item names.

- A more accurate damage reading.
I dont know why / if this is limited on the server, but in an ideal world, being able to tell what weapon did what type of damage (eg em/ thermal ) and exactly how much damage was done.

Tazarak theDeceiver wrote:

Who took the first shot and length of engagement.

I also think this is a great idea, although it could be somewhat troublesome.
Meh.
Northern Coalition.
#12 Posted: 2012.02.23 20:31
There should also be a way to flag characters who were helpless holding a cyno, lost a ship and then also podded. A character's combat log should have a column specific to cyno kills so we can see who the people are running around npc space with 75% of their kills being defenseless.
Goonswarm Federation
#13 Posted: 2012.02.23 20:38
Tazarak theDeceiver wrote:
There should also be a way to flag characters who were helpless holding a cyno, lost a ship and then also podded. A character's combat log should have a column specific to cyno kills so we can see who the people are running around npc space with 75% of their kills being defenseless.


Personally i disagree with your reason, but the idea of knowing if the cyno was active at time would be good.
Also knowing how burnt out modules are or if they were online / offline.
Meh.
#14 Posted: 2012.02.23 21:14
Damage Time Lines
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#15 Posted: 2012.02.24 00:53
Perhaps showing whether the parties involved and the PvP was part of a situation by way of a wardec.
Caldari State
#16 Posted: 2012.02.24 01:18
Battle reports that take who was in fleet into account. This way Battle reports with more than 2 parties involved don't look like a mess.
#17 Posted: 2012.02.24 01:52
Show involved Support ships (like Logistics) on the kill.

When a ship is receiving some kind of bonus (shield transfer, remote armor, remote sebo, etc) that ship and it's pilot should be shown.
A lot of killmails currently pretend to have been an awesome fight, while instead receiving remote support.
Goonswarm Federation
#18 Posted: 2012.02.24 01:53
I'd like to see some way of seeing whether a podkill forced the victim to lose SP as a result of having an insufficient clone. I'm not sure how comfortable you guys are with giving SP totals, but even something like Destroyed: X00,000 SP or Destroyed: Jove Carrier 5 or something like that would be hilariously awesome.
Amarr Empire
#19 Posted: 2012.02.24 03:04
When someone is podded, I would find it interesting to somehow see the Clone Grade that was lost.
#20 Posted: 2012.02.24 03:06
How about you focus on making killmails accurate and not just utterly random (particularly in lag)

That said, if we are going to rock the CCP line of "FORGET FIXING THINGS, JUST ADD MORE FEATURES THAT DON'T WORK" I suppose repping amount for logi ships would be boss
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