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  • Date of Birth: 2014-06-13 20:52
  • First Forum Visit: 2014-06-25 11:49
  • Number of Posts: 363
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Areen Sassel

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  • Dirac Angestun Gesept Member since

Last 20 Posts

  • How to control PLEX price (ISK) to CCP in EVE Gameplay Center

    Alexi Stokov wrote:
    Scialt wrote:
    I'm not sure if that's necessary or not... but if CCP decided they needed to drop the price of plex... then simple give every subscribed account X number of plex. The price will drop. Pretty simple.

    Unless you're sarcastic....CCP makes money off of PLEX. They would never do this.


    Scialt knows they sell it, obviously, and while I don't think this is a remotely likely remedy (albeit that there are PLEX drops in the current event, a first), if you'd read the thread you'd understand the rationale. If they think a very high price reduces player count and long-term income, they might very well be willing to take a short-term hit to avoid that long-term problem.

  • Black Rose Fleet Systems Fundraising in EVE Gameplay Center

    StarterrorPrime wrote:
    Of course likey anyone needing a little hope, I got roped into an Alliance and ended up losing my ass on that since there wasn't any money to be made applying my trade in said alliance, proving to be a Giant isk sink in itself so I got out of that steaming mess.

    Anyone who doesn't read C&P can read that tale of hilarity here. Potted summary: you can't manufacture and sell to individual members of an alliance the same ships the alliance gives them for free, who knew?
    Quote:
    Preferred Customers will also be considered as Non-Targets for BRFS Fleet Operations, if a war declaration occurs between a preferred customer's corporation, we will put you as low priority on targeting

    Bit of a paper tiger, this; when you say "we" that's not strictly accurate. Your membership is down from the giddy heights of "two" it has reached in the past.

    Cute begging letter, though.

  • How to control PLEX price (ISK) to CCP in EVE Gameplay Center

    yamoshi Yotosala wrote:
    It is established that CCP own, hold and control the whole of the market. This statement is correct but the conversation ( as you correctly point out) is whether CCP should intervene to stop rising plex prices.

    I think we started with simple feasiblity - someone mentioned the reintroduction of confiscated PLEX, you said "one off, not a long-term price effect", I said "not if they keep doing it". Nothing about "should".
    Quote:
    We can both agree that the market has no real hands off state but if we assume this position then the answer to this whole thread is that all of our points are meaningless.

    I think it is interesting to discuss what could be done and what the outcome might be - and I don't think the discussion is any more or less interesting if we label one course of action "intervention" and the other "no intervention".
    Quote:
    Past interventions have little relevence in this environment however, because the price change is driven by the fundamental change in plex.

    I think they do. I mean, you're undeniably right that there's been a change in demand resulting from the new facilities, and that's not going away, but an ongoing decision to reinject ban-confiscated PLEX would produce a change in supply that wasn't going away either.
    Quote:
    If fewer sub then reduce the plex requirement to guide behaviour in this direction.

    Well, there's a difficulty here - besides the possibility of a drastic price crash brought on by an anticipated drop in demand - we've had an understanding for years that the PLEX:gametime ratio is unchanging. If it can be changed, it can be changed both ways, and PLEX are no longer an investment with an inherent value that can never be lost.

    Lower the cash price? All very well, but it immediately hits the balance sheet (although of course if it brings in more players in the long run, worth it).

    The advantage of the confiscated PLEX scheme (after all, there's nothing magic about the number confiscated, CCP could print as many as they liked if they thought it would raise revenue in the long run) is it reassures the people with hoards of the stuff that the extra supply is of a definitely limited size.

  • How to control PLEX price (ISK) to CCP in EVE Gameplay Center

    yamoshi Yotosala wrote:
    Pretty sound reasoning except you have omitted a large part of the argument. Plex is no longer used for solely for subscriptions. CCP indeed owns the inputs and outputs of the market and therefore controls the market I agree but you are asking for intervention on a single asset to yield the price you would like for a purpose that suits your specific needs.

    No, I'm not asking for that. Personally I don't care about the PLEX price one jot - I pay for my subscription with cash money and always have, bought my character transfer PLEX and MCT PLEX with cash money, don't use New Eden Store cosmetics nor skill injectors or extractors. I'm not asking for anything, there isn't a price I would like, and this is nothing to do with my needs or wants.

    I'm discussing an idea that was mooted in the thread - and the other thing I'm pointing out is that calling it an intervention is a bit misleading because anything CCP does - even nothing - is equally well them manipulating the market. It doesn't have a natural hands-off state.
    Quote:
    Another significant point is that the plex to real currency exchange is more favourable. If you purchase plex to sell this is a good time, there are many benefits to this outcome. Players can raise more isk and more fundamentally CCP can raise more income which in turn helps to fund development and continue the game.

    This is obviously true in the short term, but equally it seems likely that a high price will cause a decline in the number of players, but a high player count helps keep everyone interested. If a bunch of poors leave, that may cause whales to leave (and meaning there's not a net change in the ratio of supply and demand) - making this a bad thing in the long run. I imagine CCP have a better idea of what might happen than we do, which is why it's interesting that the suggested intervention has been done in the past as a response to a rapidly rising PLEX price.
    Quote:
    Just to clarify I think at this point the market needs to correct and not be corrected.

    It's misleading, I think, to refer to doing one thing as a "correction" and not to doing another thing. It's all equally artificial.
    Alexi Stokov wrote:
    I don't know why CCP would reintroduce confiscated PLEX.

    If you had read the discussion above you would know the answer - as a response to rapidly rising PLEX prices, just like they did last time.

  • How to control PLEX price (ISK) to CCP in EVE Gameplay Center

    yamoshi Yotosala wrote:
    Areen Sassel wrote:
    Not if they keep doing it (and keep handing out bans). It would seem fair enough - every 500 PLEX bought means a month of gametime, rather than some disappearing into a void - although of course it's nicer for CCP's bottom line in the short term to have those PLEX just disappear.

    This idea has two different parts, the reinjection of confiscated assets (which are deemed to have been gained by illicit activity) and the decrease of demand by banning more players.

    I didn't really have the second part in mind (and I don't imagine the decrease in demand from banned players is significant). I was only observing that to have a constant supply of PLEX from banned players, they must continue to ban players.
    Quote:
    The first question is of morality. Should we use assets gained by exploits?

    A banned player's PLEX, unlike perhaps their ISK and other assets, are not ultimately the product of an exploit, but an ordinary PLEX purchase, so I don't think the question arises. [1]
    Quote:
    If we do then this would increase the supply and drive down cost. This would also improve the marginal utility of players increasing demand throughout the markets (less spent on plex more to spend on other assets). This would increase inflation , trade and industry becomes more profitable, plex becomes even more affordable, more demand, prices rise and back to higher equillibrium.

    I wouldn't expect an increase in supply to return you to the same equilibrium point, no, which is what you seem to be saying. A lower price can't increase demand to the point where the price isn't lower, and yet continue to increase demand.
    Quote:
    Why ask CCP to subsidise free play? The players mange the market just fine.

    I think these paens (this isn't the most obvious one, to be fair) to leaving the market in its natural state are overstating the case, for all the OP's proposed remedies were clearly unworkable, and it's not clear there's an actual problem from CCP's point of view.

    The market doesn't have a natural state; CCP can't _not_ interfere. They decide the manufacturing inputs to every recipe, the drop rates of every dropped item, the price of skillbooks and blueprints, etc - and specifically here, the RL cost of PLEX, the PLEX cost of ex-Aurum items, and the amount of gametime PLEX gives you.

    Deciding to return banned players' PLEX to the market is interfering, but just as much is permanently removing it from the game interfering. The decision is only how to interfere.

    [1] Yes, one can imagine an exploit that manufactures PLEX, and in that case you'd expect the cloned PLEX to be removed from the game regardless.

  • Smack Talk Free Zone in EVE Gameplay Center

    Saeger1737 wrote:
    Best question, what's your favorite beer?


    Milton Minotaur, but they're a local-ish brewery...

  • Crime and NO punishment in EVE Gameplay Center

    Dracvlad wrote:
    Areen Sassel wrote:
    Now, I don't really believe the bit where CCP listen and take action, but isn't that sort of how it's supposed to work? It's like a conspiracy theory where the milk that turns up on the doorstep is allegedly brought by a milkman.
    Facts speak for themselves,

    But who cares? Suppose you're right, what have you got? CSM brings player concerns to CCP as intended, shocker. I admit that's a bit unusual in practice, but it's hardly the story of the century.

    What's next, the startling revelation that the bright light in the east every day is caused by sunrise?

    As an addendum, I think if I found not-Nitshe-honest was my main cheerleader I'd seriously reconsider my position.

  • Crime and NO punishment in EVE Gameplay Center

    Galaxy Pig wrote:
    /whole thread


    You forget the fascinating conspiracy theory where people allegedly talk to the CSM who allegedly talk to CCP who allegedly listen to them and take action.

    Now, I don't really believe the bit where CCP listen and take action, but isn't that sort of how it's supposed to work? It's like a conspiracy theory where the milk that turns up on the doorstep is allegedly brought by a milkman.

  • Crime and NO punishment in EVE Gameplay Center

    Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
    Considering the Third Rule ("always project") and that they like to wind up players, get them to rage or meltdown, then take the convo and bandy it about like a trophy says a lot about the ass cancer (oh noes Herzog is attacking cancer sufferers that total sh*tlord!)


    I admit there's a certain elegant self-sufficiency to saying something silly, imagining that someone was offended, then berating your imaginary friend for the imaginary taking of offence, thus sparing yourself the need for anyone else to want to participate in this little farce - but wouldn't it be still more efficient to do it in your own head, rather than cluttering up the forums with it?

  • How to control PLEX price (ISK) to CCP in EVE Gameplay Center

    yamoshi Yotosala wrote:
    TheSmokingHertog wrote:
    CCP is still sitting on large quantities of confiscated PLEX, if CCP would desire, they could reintroduce them to the market. They did once before.

    This would theoretically create a short term over supply and a short term fix. Once the stocks are exhausted then price should return to the new higher equillibrium.


    Not if they keep doing it (and keep handing out bans). It would seem fair enough - every 500 PLEX bought means a month of gametime, rather than some disappearing into a void - although of course it's nicer for CCP's bottom line in the short term to have those PLEX just disappear.

  • Dev blog: Introducing the new EVE Online Forums in EVE Information Center

    Jeremiah Saken wrote:
    Areen Sassel wrote:
    I'm not saying that ain't a plus point, but also as far as I can tell, worse on non-mobile devices - like the computers we all presumably have to play EVE on.

    Whole internet is going into mobile friendly you can't stop this trend.


    I'm not trying to affect the whole internet by posting here. I'm trying to affect the EVE forums, where - unlike the rest of the Web - we know essentially everyone reading them has access to a non-mobile device with a large screen.

    Of course, I don't expect it to make a difference, but it would be senseless not to give feedback.

  • Smack Talk Free Zone in EVE Gameplay Center

    Saeger1737 wrote:
    Smack free zone, so what do people think about playing the game in the nude?


    Given the weather we've been having here, I certainly hope it's OK.

  • Dev blog: Introducing the new EVE Online Forums in EVE Information Center

    Jeremiah Saken wrote:
    Something, something, better at mobile devices.


    I'm not saying that ain't a plus point, but also as far as I can tell, worse on non-mobile devices - like the computers we all presumably have to play EVE on.

  • How to control PLEX price (ISK) to CCP in EVE Gameplay Center

    Algarion Getz wrote:
    Areen Sassel wrote:
    Do something about ghost training (which has just been done). The break-even point for ghost training (where PLEX lets you train just enough SP to sell for the ISK for the PLEX) was a much higher PLEX price than, say, non-exploit skill farming.
    The banning of ghost training could also have the opposite effect because you can also farm SP legally by giving all your farming accounts Omega status (you buy Omega status with PLEX).


    I'm well aware of non-ghost SP farming, but the question is where the equilibrium point comes - there's a PLEX price (of course itself dependent on the SP price) where it becomes uneconomic. That equilibrium point is much lower for legitimate SP farming because it needs more PLEX per SP farmed.

    Back of the envelope, with a set of +5s and optimal map you can train 3.9 injectors worth in 30 days. EVE-central seems to be having a Moment and I'm in Hek, not Jita, so these figures may be a bit off (but before using buy offer prices I have verified that some have actually sold recently at that price), but to do that you need:

    500 PLEX @ 2.8 million; 1.4 billion ISK.
    3.9 skill extractors @ 270 million: 1.053 billion ISK. (Oddly these have lagged behind the PLEX price a bit; they are "worth" 1.22 billion at the current PLEX price).

    Your 3.9 skill injectors then sell for 750 million each, less 1% sales tax (we're assuming you can do all this in a 0% broker fee citadel somewhere): 2.896 billion ISK. That's more profit than I expected (what am I missing?)

    Assuming skill extractors increase to track the PLEX price, you're basically turning 937 PLEX into 3.9 skill injectors. At the current SP price that breaks even at a PLEX price of 3.1 million (1.546 billion for an oldPLEX). That's not a long way off the current PLEX price, so if the SP price doesn't change, non-ghost SP farming will soon become uneconomic.

    Of course, besides the possibility that I've made some hilarious error, this doesn't paint the whole picture because with the demise of ghost training the supply of injectors will decrease and the SP price will rise, but the basic point that ghosts could sustain a higher PLEX price for a given SP price remains.

  • Dev blog: Introducing the new EVE Online Forums in EVE Information Center

    Losing the ability to easily see corp and alliance affiliation is not an improvement.

    The divisions between posts are much less clear than they were in the old forums - a neat trick since the old forums already have a bad case of grey-on-grey design.

    At the moment everything's an eyebleeding soup of animated images but perhaps that will die down as time goes by and merely be slightly worse than now.

    It's all a horrible mess of third-party Javascript. Yes, I'm a NoScript-using paranoid.

  • How to control PLEX price (ISK) to CCP in EVE Gameplay Center

    Algarion Getz wrote:
    What they could do to decrease the insane demand for PLEX:


    Do something about ghost training (which has just been done). The break-even point for ghost training (where PLEX lets you train just enough SP to sell for the ISK for the PLEX) was a much higher PLEX price than, say, non-exploit skill farming. I expect with the demise of ghost training we'll see SP prices rise more and PLEX prices stop this meteoric rise.

    I think this is more significant than your suggestion to limit skill injector use - with ghost training gone the demand for PLEX to buy skill extractors will fall naturally.

    They've also recently eliminated - well, reduced - PLEX losses in transit, but I dunno how significant those ever were.

    You're quite right about ISKflation, of course.

  • Kill this thieving whore [Niran Krynn] in EVE Gameplay Center

    Jagd Wilde wrote:
    Do yourself a favor OP, put some distance between you and starterrorwhatever his name is. You don't want people thinking you are his alt.


    I think I preferred Start Error's thesaurus soup to this vaguely misogynistic ranting.

  • Bungee Echo Vaginaaa bounce in and smash Vendetta secret POCOs. in EVE Gameplay Center

    Shouldn't Vipsan at least be _pretending_ not to be Nitshe's alt?

  • Jita IV-4 Station Docking range in EVE Gameplay Center

    Akkyma wrote:
    In less then a second my ship was targeted and destroyed by AlFaraS'ulTanine.


    All else aside, no, it wasn't. A server tick - one second - must pass between you appearing on-grid and lockon, and between lockon and firing.

    Sometimes if you're caught without an instadock (I know, but we've all done it) it's worth switching on a MWD. The increased sig radius doesn't matter if you can make it to the station before the shots land.

  • People selling for just above the buying price in EVE Gameplay Center

    Kalahira Sarlain wrote:
    Sorry, I am a noob, but this looks like a good place to ask : how do you place a "sell" offer ? Like, if I have something rare which I want to sell, and I don't wanna use the "sell this" command because the station price is too low. I see a button to place "buy orders" (not sure what this does btw), but not the equivalent to sell.


    You do use the "sell this" command. If you change the timeframe from Immediate you can then input a price of your own to post a sell offer.