# 2 years break. First Day back. What In The Actual Frak!?! EVE statistics from 2003 - 2017 Present Day **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 8, 2017, 12:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/2-years-break-first-day-back-what-in-the-actual-frak-eve-statistics-from-2003-2017-present-day/44122 "2017-12-08T00:52:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spruceys](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/spruceys/32/41724_2.png) [@Spruceys](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Spruceys)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/2-years-break-first-day-back-what-in-the-actual-frak-eve-statistics-from-2003-2017-present-day/44122/23 "2017-12-08T11:25:13Z")
Its only a game, there are thousands of more important things in life. Speaking from personal experience, EVE dying might be quite a good thing for some. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelwright\_Phien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wheelwright_phien/32/41157_2.png) [@Wheelwright\_Phien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wheelwright_Phien)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 11:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/2-years-break-first-day-back-what-in-the-actual-frak-eve-statistics-from-2003-2017-present-day/44122/24 "2017-12-08T11:26:02Z")
> [@yellow\_parasol](#): > > Your analysis is invalid. > > it does not include MCT and SP trading, which caused people to remove or consolidate characters into less accounts > you look at peaks and ignore the rest of the day, which is not covered by peaks. > it consideres the artificial peak of 65k accounts online, which is invalid, because CCP deliberately told everyone tolog in everything to make it look big for the anniversary. > > Try again. Your analysis is invalid. - SP trading is a horribly inefficient way to “consolidate characters” because of the injected SP penalty, I doubt anyone ever did that in any meaningful capacity, - Even if you don’t look at “peaks” and look at the rest of the day, the numbers back then were noticeably higher, - Yeah, the 65k accounts is “fake”, but what would happen if CCP made the same call today? “Everyone log in everything, we need a new record!”? You think we’d reach 65k? If I remember correctly, attempts to break the PCU were a yearly thing, they are not anymore. I wonder why. Try again. Or don’t, I’ve seen your “The Future is Bright!” thread, spare yourself this time. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 11:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/2-years-break-first-day-back-what-in-the-actual-frak-eve-statistics-from-2003-2017-present-day/44122/25 "2017-12-08T11:38:07Z")
Your opinions are irrelevant. Fact: SP trading and MCT lead to people killing characters and consolidating them on fewer accounts. Fact: The numbers in some TZ outside of the PCU are higher than before. Fact: You ignore facts. Fact: OP’s analysis is insufficient and inaccurate. Conclusion: Stop trying, you’re not good enough. Have a nice day. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Wheelwright\_Phien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wheelwright_phien/32/41157_2.png) [@Wheelwright\_Phien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wheelwright_Phien)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 11:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/2-years-break-first-day-back-what-in-the-actual-frak-eve-statistics-from-2003-2017-present-day/44122/26 "2017-12-08T11:52:10Z")
> [@yellow\_parasol](#): > > Fact: You ignore facts. [http://www.eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility](http://www.eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility) Here are the _facts_ in easy to read format. You can attempt the unquantifiable fallacies about “some” timezones or “some” players that consolidated their characters, but the _facts_ are simple: average daily(not just peak or just daily or nightly or whatever straw you want to grasp at now) player count has been steadily going down since early 2013, with one short break at the end of 2016 when Alphas were introduced. But by mid-2017 the numbers were back down to pre-Alpha levels. ---
**Author:** ![Plesuvius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/plesuvius/32/389929_2.png) [@Plesuvius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Plesuvius)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 12:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/2-years-break-first-day-back-what-in-the-actual-frak-eve-statistics-from-2003-2017-present-day/44122/28 "2017-12-08T12:33:33Z")
Interesting thread, thank you. I don’t know if PCU is a useful metric, I’m sure Eve is growing in some market, TQ getting the China players will help no doubt. What can be done? Perhaps people are growing out of the game. Perhaps it needs content to appeal to the App and microtransaction generation? The mobile gamers? The Y2k ers? Maybe it’s time for Eve 2? ---
**Author:** ![Erik\_Doshu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erik_doshu/32/369845_2.png) [@Erik\_Doshu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Erik_Doshu)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 12:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/2-years-break-first-day-back-what-in-the-actual-frak-eve-statistics-from-2003-2017-present-day/44122/29 "2017-12-08T12:57:07Z")
30-35k population is best, feels like you’re actually part of a vast universe with more empty places. 60k pop felt like you were in a small compacted city. Didnt enjoy it. ---
**Author:** ![Sindara\_T\_Soni](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sindara_t_soni/32/242945_2.png) [@Sindara\_T\_Soni](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sindara_T_Soni)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 12:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/2-years-break-first-day-back-what-in-the-actual-frak-eve-statistics-from-2003-2017-present-day/44122/30 "2017-12-08T12:59:19Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Old games lose interest. > > How is this news? This. I don’t play Ultima Online anymore. I don’t play Dark Age of Camelot anymore. I don’t play [insert game here] anymore (loooong list). Did they become bad games? No Did they get old / samey? Yes. Did something new and exciting and different (at least at the time) come along? Yes. I don’t really seeing anything happening here in EVE other than the natural ebb and flow of a games population as the game ages and people naturally move on to other things. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 1:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/2-years-break-first-day-back-what-in-the-actual-frak-eve-statistics-from-2003-2017-present-day/44122/31 "2017-12-08T13:02:27Z")
Ive always wondered since I first played an mmo if after playing a long time, would I wander around empty lands remembering friends long past… But then I realised no, one day the ingame sun will supernova and wipe the server. All these moments will be lost… Like receipts in the bin… Time to roll… ---
**Author:** ![Keno\_Skir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/keno_skir/32/460582_2.png) [@Keno\_Skir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Keno_Skir)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 1:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/2-years-break-first-day-back-what-in-the-actual-frak-eve-statistics-from-2003-2017-present-day/44122/32 "2017-12-08T13:31:44Z")
> [@yellow\_parasol](#): > > For you it’s personal, for me it’s literally “OP made a shitty analysis and i pointed out why it’s shitty”. Your tone in this thread definitely suggests it’s more personal to you than you’re making out. ---
**Author:** ![Sindara\_T\_Soni](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sindara_t_soni/32/242945_2.png) [@Sindara\_T\_Soni](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sindara_T_Soni)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 1:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/2-years-break-first-day-back-what-in-the-actual-frak-eve-statistics-from-2003-2017-present-day/44122/33 "2017-12-08T13:32:51Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Ive always wondered since I first played an mmo if after playing a long time, would I wander around empty lands remembering friends long past… I’ve been back once or twice to old games. It’s never the same when the people you were there with at the time are long gone and the epic things you did together are distant memories … ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Little](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/do_little/32/411571_2.png) [@Do\_Little](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Do_Little)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/2-years-break-first-day-back-what-in-the-actual-frak-eve-statistics-from-2003-2017-present-day/44122/34 "2017-12-08T13:45:49Z")
Eve is now 14 years old and carrying a lot of legacy debt - both in the codebase and in the playerbase. - Nullsec is largely controlled by huge power blocks established for a decade or more with trillions in assets. New groups have little choice but to join one of the established blocs or rent. People ask CCP to create new space but that won’t make a difference - most of nullsec is already empty. - Highsec has received relatively little attention until recently in spite of the fact that 75% of the population live there, and likely account for 75% of CCPs revenue. New players burn through the content in a few month and then what - unless they are interested in PVP or have established a social connection to the game, they move on. - A lot of the content Eve does have requires an unreasonable time commitment. Fleets can take hours and adults with career and family responsibilities rarely have that kind of time. - A lot of Eve gameplay takes place outside the client. My research, production, markets, etc… don’t care whether I’m logged in or not and much of my strategic planning is done outside the client. - A lot of Eve gameplay scales well across multiple characters rewarding multiboxers and bots. So, what do I think CCP can do about this? - Small units of interesting and rewarding content that can be consumed in a reasonable amount of time - say 30 minutes, ideally procedurally generated so each site is unique. They seem to have started down this road with the agency and event content but still have a long way to go. - Meaningful progression. Players need goals and achievements. I found that in industry and markets but PVE plateaus quickly and not all players are interested in transitioning to PVP. A chart prepared by CCP Quant a couple of years ago showed that 13.8% of logged in characters were involved in PVP and I doubt that all of them wanted to be! [http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68738/1/activity.16.png](http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68738/1/activity.16.png) - Better economic management. Eve has a closed economy where nothing wears out or goes obsolete and virtually everything is overproduced. The money supply is growing faster than the economy and the CPI has been declining practically since the game was introduced. This is not healthy and will eventually destroy the economy - and the game. Production curbs like the pre-Crius slot limits might be a step in the right direction. ---
**Author:** ![Orrin\_Sebiestor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/orrin_sebiestor/32/42584_2.png) [@Orrin\_Sebiestor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Orrin_Sebiestor)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 2:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/2-years-break-first-day-back-what-in-the-actual-frak-eve-statistics-from-2003-2017-present-day/44122/35 "2017-12-08T14:14:36Z")
The secret to saving EVE is killing it and making its sequel. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 2:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/2-years-break-first-day-back-what-in-the-actual-frak-eve-statistics-from-2003-2017-present-day/44122/36 "2017-12-08T14:15:40Z")
Now I has a sad… And a desire to play games that dare not speak their name ---
**Author:** ![Lulu\_Lunette](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lulu_lunette/32/133822_2.png) [@Lulu\_Lunette](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lulu_Lunette)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 2:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/2-years-break-first-day-back-what-in-the-actual-frak-eve-statistics-from-2003-2017-present-day/44122/37 "2017-12-08T14:27:30Z")
Cool analysis OP ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/2-years-break-first-day-back-what-in-the-actual-frak-eve-statistics-from-2003-2017-present-day/44122/38 "2017-12-08T20:58:00Z")
You’re probably right, but for the wrong reason. I guess i need to give more Kudos to people who are willing to textually engage people like him, but at the same time do i recognize that ongoing arguing does not help anything at all. ---
**Author:** ![Vol\_Arm\_OOO](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vol_arm_ooo/32/213741_2.png) [@Vol\_Arm\_OOO](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vol_Arm_OOO)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 9:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/2-years-break-first-day-back-what-in-the-actual-frak-eve-statistics-from-2003-2017-present-day/44122/39 "2017-12-08T21:35:35Z")
I agree - the changes to make eve less harsh and unforgiving made eve less unique and less interesting. Hell, we now have dailies just like wow and everyone else… ---
**Author:** ![Trevor\_Dalech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/trevor_dalech/32/410287_2.png) [@Trevor\_Dalech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Trevor_Dalech)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 9:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/2-years-break-first-day-back-what-in-the-actual-frak-eve-statistics-from-2003-2017-present-day/44122/40 "2017-12-08T21:42:42Z")
Any “EVE is dying” post needs to include an analysis of why it is still alive in the first place. This game is nearly 15 years old, I personally do not know of any MMO with more than 10k players atm that is older (please correct me if you know of one). Clearly CCP is doing something right! ---
**Author:** ![mkint](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mkint/32/14424_2.png) [@mkint](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/mkint)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/2-years-break-first-day-back-what-in-the-actual-frak-eve-statistics-from-2003-2017-present-day/44122/41 "2017-12-08T22:20:19Z")
Hmm, that’s a good question. Inertia? Seriously though, the reason it continues is the same reason it’s declining. EVE has never been about spaceships. It’s always been about friendships. Data’s very clear that people who join a corp stick around, and those who don’t, don’t. I hate to say it, but I think maybe the harshness of old nudged people to forming groups. I don’t want that to be the case because people use it as an excuse to lobby for making EVE less fun. And this is the part that pisses me off. They’ve known for years that corp membership equates to a rewarding game. And instead of actually fixing the broken corp interface that by rights should be the very heart of the game (and by extension making corp recruitment tools that aren’t complete garbage), they went dicking around with stupid toys, looking for ways to put more power into the hands of the biggest alliances. That’s why I don’t think EVE can be saved. They design based on metrics and statistics without giving 2 greasy squirts about the typical user experience. Meanwhile ever since space-barbie they’ve been on a constant defensive, fighting to lose instead of fighting to win. ---
**Author:** ![Oryion](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oryion/32/28516_2.png) [@Oryion](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Oryion)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 10:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/2-years-break-first-day-back-what-in-the-actual-frak-eve-statistics-from-2003-2017-present-day/44122/42 "2017-12-08T22:34:28Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Old games lose interest. > > How is this news? Would you, and anyone else reading this agree that EVE when comparing the 2003 release to what a user sees upon logging in today, are in fact ALMOST two completely different games? This is how mich the game has chnaged. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 10:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/2-years-break-first-day-back-what-in-the-actual-frak-eve-statistics-from-2003-2017-present-day/44122/43 "2017-12-08T22:36:31Z")
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