# 22 Accounts. 1 Cheater? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 12, 2018, 10:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980 "2018-09-12T22:32:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 3:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/372 "2018-09-15T15:03:57Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > lag and the use of sensor boosters could affect the logs which is a very valid point. Its not. Lag and sensor boosters have no effect on how fast a person can submit commands via mouse/keys. You are being had and mislead, again. We are talking about 14-16 actions per second, as swapping between clients and issuing target lock command, for 7-8 accounts. So 1/14-1/16 of a second per command in interval, in 1 secdon. A human blink takes 1/3-1/4 of a second for comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 3:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/373 "2018-09-15T15:05:35Z")
What we have got from this that if anyone is ganked and they see what appears to be more than 4 per second activated on their gank taking into account lag and sensor boosters that could show eight or more within a second and look for a second gap in case then they could petition it, but I would suggest that they err on the side of caution when doing so. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Its not. > Lag and sensor boosters have no effect on how fast a person can submit commands via mouse/keys. > > You are being had and mislead, again. Salvos I have the logs of a victim which enabled me to see firing groups within each server tick, this is what I am referring to, I detailed it above, and you accused me of being slow. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/374 "2018-09-15T15:07:05Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Salvos I have the logs of a victim, this is what I am referring to, I detailed it above, and you accused me of being slow. Im not talking about your logs in a separate instance. Im talking about this case as in OP. Do you seriously believe that a human can input 14-16 commands at an interval of 1/14-/16 of a second, within one second, to 7-8 accounts? ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/375 "2018-09-15T15:07:34Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Do you seriously believe that a human can input commands at an interval of 1/14-/16 of a second, within one second, to 7-8 accounts? No I don’t, but my logs indicate that it was kosher. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy\_Bernstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/foggy_bernstein/32/407887_2.png) [@Foggy\_Bernstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Foggy_Bernstein)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/376 "2018-09-15T15:08:03Z")
Is it possable to gank legitimatly with that amount of characters? Sure. Is it extremely unlikely that that’s what’s happening? Absolutely. When accts are free and you are playing a game you don’t care much about beyond making people angry, you also don’t give a rat’s ass about using banned software to accomplish your goals. Add to that the unlikeliness of CCP even bothering to find out you are doing it and even if they do, then - at most - you simply spend an afternoon creating a bunch more free accts to keep on keeping on. The OP is correct. I’d give it a 95% likelihood that automation is involved. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 3:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/377 "2018-09-15T15:09:06Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > > > Do you seriously believe that a human can input commands at an interval of 1/14-/16 of a second, within one second, to 7-8 accounts? > > No I don’t, but my logs indicate that it was kosher. Cognitive dissonance. You dont seriously believe its humanly possible, but construe the logs that show it DID happen at that inhuman rate, as kosher? Goddamit man. Dont make me slap you. ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 3:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/378 "2018-09-15T15:09:07Z")
> [@Foggy\_Bernstein](#): > > When accts are free Last I checked omegas are not free. ---
**Author:** ![Mingja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mingja/32/50857_2.png) [@Mingja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mingja)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 3:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/379 "2018-09-15T15:09:23Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Do you seriously believe that a human can input commands at an interval of 1/14-/16 of a second, within one second, to 7-8 accounts? I can do 5 shift-tabs + 6 klicks within a second in a browser (common technique used in a lot of browsergames). I am hardly extremely practiced. I find 14 to not be a long stretch, especially if you reduce Alt+Tab to just one command (which should be possible via Windows). Handling Game clients is obviously not as fast as Browsertabs, but well, yeah. As I said, I have no real practice. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 3:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/380 "2018-09-15T15:11:02Z")
> [@Mingja](#): > > I can do 5 shift-tabs + 6 klicks within a second in a browser Prove it. Btw, I think you mean “alt-tab”, not shift-tab, unless you have reconfigured your keyboard commands. Even then thats only 11 actions, not 14-16 in a second within EVE, across 7-8 windows. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 3:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/381 "2018-09-15T15:12:59Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Which is my view, the point that the gankers made in and around the insults is that lag and the use of sensor boosters could affect the logs which is a very valid point. So what looked like 8 is in fact 4 if you take that into account. Can you link me some killmails about the Sensor Booster thing? A quick look up on Zkill only showed me that Taloses seemd to be regularly fit with the ECCM Script, to avoid failure by Burst ECM Whiteknights I suppose. This offers exactly 0 on faster lock times. Lag, hm. Nah, this is not how actions are performed on the server. 8 chars shooting in the exact same second means at least 2 different players are involved. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 3:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/382 "2018-09-15T15:18:10Z")
> [@Mingja](#): > > I can do 5 shift-tabs + 6 klicks within a second No you can’t, because this amounts to the following: Shift → Tab → release both → click / 4 actions for one cycle that times 5 + 1 extra mouseclick = 21 actions within a second that need to happen in the exact correct order. Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 3:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/383 "2018-09-15T15:19:53Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Cognitive dissonance. > > You dont seriously believe its humanly possible, but construe the logs that show it DID happen at that inhuman rate, as kosher? > > Goddamit man. Dont make me slap you. Why are you being insulting, my logs indicate that it is about 4 a second which matches with that video. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > In the logs I have the first warp disruption happens at 06:28:39 and Concord nab him at 06:28:49 and the first real gank ship fires at 06:29:07 Asutralian Excellence himself, the next second Tax Collector HongMei and Taxman Daniel. The next second Giselle Rozei, Trump The King, Pod Destroyer, Tax Collector Richard, Tawny Rozei, Tax Collector Max, Tax Collector Kittens, Tax Collector Aruka, which is eight. > > Two seconds after that we have Ruby Rozei, Tax Collector BokChoy, Tax Collector KarlMarx. adding their firee power together. > > The next second Tax Collector Stroheim, Sherri Rozei, Tax Collector Hill add their fire power. > > The nest second Christine Rozei, Tax Collector AynRand, Pod Destroyer Molly, Tax Collector Larry, > > The next second, Tawny Rozei, Tax Collector Yuna, Shanade Rozei, Tax Collector Kimi > > The next second is Tax Collector Fuemi, Tax Collector Shardani and Ruby Rozei. > > Concord nab Australian Excellence at 06:29:22 which is 15 seconds from when he opened fire, which is longer than I would have expected, not sure why this took so long? Those logs correspond to the video of Kusion I saw above, he is holding down Q and clicking in a fast controlled manner. It is just one click on clients where guns and points (when used) have all been pre-activated. I am pretty clear what I am talking about. Which is different to what you are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 3:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/384 "2018-09-15T15:27:14Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > Can you link me some killmails about the Sensor Booster thing? A quick look up on Zkill only showed me that Taloses seemd to be regularly fit with the ECCM Script, to avoid failure by Burst ECM Whiteknights I suppose. > This offers exactly 0 on faster lock times. At one point I was thinking to say that as my experience had been that people used sensor boosters with ECCM script to stop AG from jamming them, however the ganks are in Jita which is a 0.9 system, so the latter ones could have sensor boosters on to lock faster to make sure that they get all their required vollies in before CONCORD goes to town. So without a ECCM script and with a scan res script it could have had an effect on the log if he has set up the first few with points rather than sensor boosters. We are talking about serve lag, because the attacker and the victim in my log were both in Australia. > [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > 8 chars shooting in the exact same second means at least 2 different players are involved. Yes, but in my logs the batch of eight is evidently made up of two lots of 4 and due to lag or sensor boosters or whatever the victims logs showed them firing at the same time. As client logs are not great and often have issues that is very possible. ---
**Author:** ![Mingja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mingja/32/50857_2.png) [@Mingja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mingja)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 3:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/385 "2018-09-15T15:31:19Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Btw, I think you mean “alt-tab”, not shift-tab, unless you have reconfigured your keyboard commands. Actually, it’s CTRL + Tab for my Browser. > [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > Shift -\> Tab -\> release both -\> click / 4 actions for one cycle Hold Control down all the way =\> one button eliminated (as I said, it’s a BROWSER and there is no need to ALT TAB, you need CTRL + Tab, which makes things easier, obviously). However, the same is true for Eve if you just use the mouse to switch clients and use F1 for firing. Get’s only better if you remap alt + tab to a single button and then alternate between that button and F1. Obviously, the order doesn’t need to be correct either, as failing the order will only lead to one skipped account which can be worked out later. As I said, it’s possible to have 5-6 per second. Slightly more for trained individuals. Obviously, that’s a PEAK performance, not something you could do for hours. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Prove it. if there would be a game where you could still do it, I might be inclined to do so. Probably too much effort for me to care about for a destructive shitposter like you though. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 3:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/386 "2018-09-15T15:37:59Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Yes, but in my logs the batch of eight is evidently made up of two lots of 4 and due to lag or sensor boosters or whatever the victims logs showed them firing at the same time. As client logs are not great and often have issues that is very possible. Yeah sure, 4 activations per second are doable. I think what needed to be clarified has been clarified and from here on this thread could only become another useless general thread about ganking vs. no ganking 🙂 That being said, I need to train 22 Talos chars now. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/387 "2018-09-15T15:46:33Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > I think what needed to be clarified has been clarified and from here on this thread could only become another useless general thread about ganking vs. no ganking 🙂 The gankers tried to turn it into that as per normal. Ganking is part of the game, both Salvos and I think that, yet we both get accused of being anti-Ganking when we suggest for example that bumping is a poor mechanic allowing a consequence free point to be applied for an unlimited time. I like the fact that they are doing JF ganking which means that bumping is not really an issue. As long as they do it within the rules and the play is not unbalanced I am happy. And go and train those 22 Talos characters , if it rocks your boat… ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 3:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/388 "2018-09-15T15:56:11Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Ganking is part of the game, both Salvos and I think that, yet we both get accused of being anti-Ganking when we suggest for example that bumping is a poor mechanic allowing a consequence free point to be applied for an unlimited time. Because it isn’t a point, it doesn’t follow the same mechanics. I’ve seen some Machariel bump an Orca repeatedly and all I asked myself was: why doesn’t the Orca simply bring in an alt to web himself into warp after a bump happened. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > And go and train those 22 Talos characters , if it rocks your boat… Nah not really. I think ganking is cool because it is one form of PVP. Mutliboxing tens of chars turns it into a loot-box grind, just as wardecs and gatecamping. The mechanics are ok and can even be fun for a while, but for me personally it gets to a point where it is not different from PVE. It’s too boring in the end. If I were to gank, then probably using a single Thrasher or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 4:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/389 "2018-09-15T16:02:36Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > Because it isn’t a point, it doesn’t follow the same mechanics. I’ve seen some Machariel bump an Orca repeatedly and all I asked myself was: why doesn’t the Orca simply bring in an alt to web himself into warp after a bump happened. The web only reduces the max speed that the ship can propel itself. Also the warp speed is at 75% of the max speed which is why webbing works to reduce the time, because the freighter puts in warp then two webs hit and it has reached that speed and off it goes. Also there is a max speed that you can warp at which is what it is all about. Notice that when you turn off a MWD and try to warp. The better option is to get a captor in line with the bumping direction and then get someone to impede the bumper and hope that they can then warp to the captor, I have saved bowheads that way. > [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > Nah not really. I think ganking is cool because it is one form of PVP. Mutliboxing tens of chars turns it into a loot-box grind, just as wardecs and gatecamping. The mechanics are ok and can even be fun for a while, but for me personally it gets to a point where it is not different from PVE. It’s too boring in the end. You are where I am, I call it freighter mining. > [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > If I were to gank, then probably using a single Thrasher or something like that. Why not. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 4:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/390 "2018-09-15T16:04:36Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > The web only reduces the max speed that the ship can propel itself. Also the warp speed is at 75% of the max speed which is why webbing works to reduce the time, because the freighter puts in warp then two webs hit and it has reached that speed and off it goes. > > Also there is a max speed that you can warp at which is what it is all about. Notice that when you turn off a MWD and try to warp. I know that and that is exactly why I don’t agree on “bumping = warp disruption”. You can’t web yourself out of warp disruption, but you can web yourself into warp between the bump intervals. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 4:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/391 "2018-09-15T16:07:52Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > I know that and that is exactly why I don’t agree on “bumping = warp disruption”. You can’t web yourself out of warp disruption, but you can web yourself into warp between the bump intervals. Only if the bumper is incompetent or lazy, the web has no impact on it. In fact by putting a web on you are making it less likely that he can warp as the max speed that he can warp at is going to be lower than if the web was not applied. By the way you did ask the question why they did not web them to get away, so it appeared that you did not understand the mechanic. Can they warp when bumped - yes/no?, it is by definition disrupting the warp. Anyway I would not continue this, when I start mentioning bumping threads get closed… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980.md?page=18) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980.md?page=20)