# 22 Accounts. 1 Cheater? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 12, 2018, 10:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980 "2018-09-12T22:32:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 8:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/163 "2018-09-14T08:15:24Z")
He makes more ISK than he loses with very little risk, he’s also padding his killmail record which makes him appear to be some sort of elite PvP player. ---
**Author:** ![Stacey\_Stabber](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stacey_stabber/32/165577_2.png) [@Stacey\_Stabber](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stacey_Stabber)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 8:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/164 "2018-09-14T08:43:36Z")
Can I just confirm that if this kill had happened with the confirmed use of many seperate players, or by sheer clicking skill alone that it would be ok with everyone? Yeah? Cool. Back to making dank isk. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 9:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/165 "2018-09-14T09:04:33Z")
> [@Stacey\_Stabber](#): > > Can I just confirm that if this kill had happened with the confirmed use of many seperate players, or by sheer clicking skill alone that it would be ok with everyone? Yes, of course. I should add that another player looked at the logs I had, his view was that there was eight activated within one second, he then did the actual activity himself and his best score was seven accounts. So it is certainly possible that it was sheer clicking skill, as I said above, I hope that he is doing it manually every time, then he can quite freely call himself an elite ganker. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 9:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/166 "2018-09-14T09:26:35Z")
> [@Stacey\_Stabber](#): > > Can I just confirm that if this kill had happened with the confirmed use of many seperate players, or by sheer clicking skill alone that it would be ok with everyone? CCP can check IPs and account ownership. The smoking gun here (no pun intended), would be whether the gank fleet fired simultaneously, or if the time between cycling opening fire on each account (or rather initiating manual target lock command on each account, as the weapons can be pre-activated) is humanly/neurologically possible without automation. As Zluq correctly pointed out, humans have a very short, but limiting, nervous “rest” period during which axons re-galvanize with a chemical electric charge, as ionic pumps re-set, and neurotransmitter chemicals are re-absorbed across synaptic gap by dendrite ends, before they can again send another nerve impulse to ones fingers from the brain. This delay adds up, and becomes longer, the further someone tries to push it. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Ark](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mister_ark/32/11436_2.png) [@Mister\_Ark](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mister_Ark)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 10:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/167 "2018-09-14T10:21:34Z")
You can gank like this with all gankers on just one PC by just clicking through the EVE client windows one by one from first to last in the task bar. It’s not the most efficient way, but someone who has learned to do this well can lock and press F1 on around 2 or 3 accounts per second. To be honest I don’t have an exact time for it, but shouldn’t take more than 8 seconds to start shooting with all of the gankers. So the damage logs should show several seconds from the first ganker to shoot, to the last. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 10:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/168 "2018-09-14T10:28:27Z")
> [@Mister\_Ark](#): > > So the damage logs should show several seconds from the first ganker to shoot, to the last. Unfortunately, this too can be automated/scripted, to create the impression its a player cycling through clients/commands manually. Frankly, its arbitrary whether or not this incident involved staggered/delayed fire via manual or bot action. The rules of keybroadcasting/botting/ etc specify an illegal act as a result that a human could not achieve without automation. Its tough to wrap ones mind around, but it essentially means that if automation is used, its ok as long as it isnt what a present player couldnt do, albeit automation nonetheless is also illegal. If it can be shown what he did with these alts is humanly possible, then its ok. But, then comes the question whether automation was used to make it appear a human did it, which would be illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Ark](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mister_ark/32/11436_2.png) [@Mister\_Ark](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mister_Ark)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 10:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/169 "2018-09-14T10:33:05Z")
That’s not the point. If all gankers begin firing at the same moment, that’s the smoking gun to look for that proves a person is cheating. It’s a huge advantage and only cheating would allow you to do that. If it takes several seconds for them all to begin firing, that is possible without cheating, and even if the person was using software, he’s not gaining an inhuman advantage from it. However, there would be no point in using software just to stagger them since you can do that normally with just clicking through the clients and doing lock + F1. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 10:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/170 "2018-09-14T10:35:58Z")
> [@Mister\_Ark](#): > > However, there would be no point in using software just to stagger them since you can do that normally with just clicking through the clients and doing lock + F1. Its a Catch 22. If a human could do it, then it doent fit the criteria for an infraction. It then only fits the criteria if there is evidence a human didnt do it, but instead used automation to achieve an “accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play”. Thats the mindfuck/loophole here. Gimme a minute and Ill find/post the relevant clause. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 10:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/171 "2018-09-14T10:47:08Z")
> _3. You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an **accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play**. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game._ > [https://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/third-party-policies-en/](https://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/third-party-policies-en/) This is a flaw/loophole in the terms, as it makes use of the aforementioned functions as illegal, conditional on “ **accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play** ”. Thus if someone uses the aforementioned methods, but does NOT result in action at an accelerated rate compared with ordinary Game play (ie: delay on activating fire on each account, as ~9s in this instance from first to last account in this instance), they do not breach the term, even if they used automation to achieve that artificial delay, which matches “ordinary Game play”, in delay. ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 10:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/172 "2018-09-14T10:51:23Z")
> [@Fluffy\_Moe](#): > > 22 accounts and alt-tab to each No need to alttab to each account - just a clever setup of windows is all that is needed. ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 10:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/173 "2018-09-14T10:57:18Z")
> [@Avaelica\_Kuershin](#): > > lock target on all characters and then switch windows and fire? You know how I know you never ganked? Cause if you did you would have known that if you preactivate guns and then click on target then it will automatically lock the target and shoot the guns. Also you can preheat mods. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 11:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/174 "2018-09-14T11:04:27Z")
> [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](#): > > You know how I know you never ganked? Doesnt matter if he has never ganked, or never flown 30 accounts simultaneously to gank. This isnt about him. This is about whether @Australian_Excellence used any illegal automation to enact this gank, at any point in the process. The “smoking gun” here, is whether: A) Any alts involved fired simultaneously (impossible without automation) B) If they fired at a delayed rate, whether that was via automation programmed to do so, or himself giving manual commands to each in turn. ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 11:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/175 "2018-09-14T11:05:41Z")
It matters in this case - as he, and others like him, make an assumption about how much clicking and window switching is actually needed. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 11:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/176 "2018-09-14T11:07:24Z")
Read the thread. Those have already been discussed. Some people arent aware of certain mechanics, and havent read the thread, leading to misinformed posts. ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 11:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/177 "2018-09-14T11:10:45Z")
> [@BIade\_Runner](#): > > using five accounts is something i know is used by some hardcore players, but is a crazy way to play as is very easy to screw it up. I can use 5 accounts, and I am not hardcore… Also gank i snot real combat - what happens is everyone is shooting same target, this makes it possible to perform 20+ accounts gank. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 11:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/178 "2018-09-14T11:16:25Z")
> [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](#): > > this makes it possible to perform 20+ accounts gank. It is not possible for a single player to initiate fire on a target simultaneously from 20+ accounts, without automation. There is a delay between giving necessary commands to each account, manually, individually. (In this case, establishing target lock to enact firing). The issue here, is where all those commands given manually, individually, to each of the involved accounts, or did he use delayed automation to create that result. ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 11:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/179 "2018-09-14T11:16:52Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > And targeting? Just to be clear on what you are saying. Another one that never ganked and has no idea how it works… if you press f1 and click on target (assuming no targets locked) the game client itself will automatically lock and shoot. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 11:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/180 "2018-09-14T11:18:18Z")
Its a trivial matter to activate weapons pre-engagement, pending a target lock, after which they fire instantly. This is not in dispute. You are missing/conflating the issue here. Read my previous post. ---
**Author:** ![Mala\_Zvitorepka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mala_zvitorepka/32/83676_2.png) [@Mala\_Zvitorepka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mala_Zvitorepka)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/181 "2018-09-14T11:25:00Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > This is a flaw/loophole in the terms, as it makes use of the aforementioned functions as illegal, conditional on “ **accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play** ”. I believe this hole is even intentional. The problem of bots is that you would do stuff too fast or too long (or a combination of both), so real players are at a disadvantage. Furthermore, there is nearly no way to figure out if a player is using a bot that imperfectly mines/rats for 1 hour, or if he really plays manually - so the easiest is to have a criteria based on the effect of botting. Suppose this gank. Let’s assume gank was OK, he averaged say 7 ships/s, so it took 3s in total. Hard but doable if you have everything prepared and are skilled. But this 7/s is doable in a brief burst of perhaps 10 frantic seconds - having consistent 7 actions per second for an hour is impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980/182 "2018-09-14T11:25:06Z")
> [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](#): > > Another one that never ganked and has no idea how it works… if you press f1 and click on target (assuming no targets locked) the game client itself will automatically lock and shoot. Stop being bad and posting like a dimwit. I asked that question so people will add the detail so I can tell who actually knows what they are doing. Of course you want to make it all about how smart you are, well you are not. That you are unable to work out that nuance and jump in with two feet is rather special of you! [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/22-accounts-1-cheater/105980.md?page=10)