# 6 skills CCP should remove to drastically improve NPE **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 27, 2022, 8:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/6-skills-ccp-should-remove-to-drastically-improve-npe/355542 "2022-03-27T08:42:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 10:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/6-skills-ccp-should-remove-to-drastically-improve-npe/355542/123 "2022-04-15T10:38:12Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Most people will just hide in the background and then emerge later as if they’d been an expert all along. You seldom get to see the painful process of actually getting there. Or put another way………Most Players don’t mouth off about things they don’t understand as if they are the worlds foremost authority on the subject. I.e. Not being an ignorant d\*ck ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 10:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/6-skills-ccp-should-remove-to-drastically-improve-npe/355542/124 "2022-04-15T10:44:21Z")
> [@Pakur\_Saris](#): > > Wow … a whole month… my god, stop the world …A month is nothing and you are demanding to become an uber miner in a month. What next, a Titan in three months (so you can catch up) … Your demands become endless. This is a game of patience and you have demonstrated none. > > You have basically said, “The noob experience is one of if I cannot be uber and kill everyone in one month that’s bad game design.” It’s not. Time based skill point acquisition rewards loyalty. Allowing noobs to catch up within one month, would be cause for a riot to the veteran, who has played for over a decade. > > Vets have turned the other cheek so many times, allowing 1m skill points to be given to new players, allowing 20m skill points to be bought, just when does the insatiable demands of the “underprivileged” end? > > The game has been around for 216 months and you have just said; if it can’t be conquered in one month, its a bad game. Your sense of entitlement is profound. Sigh. I don’t suppose it occurs to you for one moment that for a person who has been in the game 216 months, a month is a mere 216th of their experience so _of course_ is going to seem trivial. Whereas for a noob…a month is 216 times the length of their first 3 hours in the game…which seems like forever. Heck, the _entirety_ of my time spent playing Skyrim and Fallout - New Vegas combined is less than that. That is how a noob sees the game…and it is pointless having entitled bittervets saying they shouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 10:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/6-skills-ccp-should-remove-to-drastically-improve-npe/355542/125 "2022-04-15T10:45:15Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > stop crying I can recommend a good therapist for your obsession with crying. It’s not healthy. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 10:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/6-skills-ccp-should-remove-to-drastically-improve-npe/355542/126 "2022-04-15T10:47:59Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > Or put another way………Most Players don’t mouth off about things they don’t understand as if they are the worlds foremost authority on the subject. I.e. Not being an ignorant d\*ck Most players have all the exact same notions, ideas, right thoughts, wrong thoughts…but they are too scared of the cantankerous bittervets to express them ! As you can see…I am not. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 10:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/6-skills-ccp-should-remove-to-drastically-improve-npe/355542/127 "2022-04-15T10:52:21Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Most players have all the exact same notions, ideas, right thoughts, wrong thoughts… It’s funny how you assume most other people are exactly like you. (Spoiler: they most likely are not. People are different) ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 10:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/6-skills-ccp-should-remove-to-drastically-improve-npe/355542/128 "2022-04-15T10:55:31Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > It’s funny how you assume most other people are exactly like you. They are. I see this daily in the corp I am in, and in Rookie Help, which I still pop into. I’ve seen _loads_ of people express all the exact same sentiments I have expressed on these forums. THE single biggest problem on these forums is that they are full of vets who have loooooong since forgotten noob-ness and who eagerly pounce on anyone who is even remotely ‘wrong’ about a single thing. These forums OUGHT to be a place for noobs to discuss their experience…rather than endless bittervets engaging in ’ my Titan is bigger than yours’. I’m not surprised there are so few noobs posting here…you guys drive them away. ---
**Author:** ![Jumpdrive](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jumpdrive/32/285032_2.png) [@Jumpdrive](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jumpdrive)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 11:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/6-skills-ccp-should-remove-to-drastically-improve-npe/355542/129 "2022-04-15T11:05:11Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > For new players in Eve the grind is removed fro the skill system enough for many to question the why. Sure you can use all the isk you earn to buy an injector to speed it up but is that making a meaningful difference. > > At the end of the day. In EVE there is no end to the train. I mean can you put a time on how long it takes to max all skills? I cant. Whereas in games EVE is competing with that time to max can be weeks……. We get to grind for ISK instead. That’s the beauty of it. Other MMO players grind for skill levels first and then start grinding for rare gear. We get meaningful offers to spend our ISK on throughout. I would say once you reach about 20 million SPs and you picked your skills with care, you gradually stop caring about getting more SPs. The most sensible activities in this game involve cruisers, dessies and frigs anyway. All the more reason for us to look at the quality of the gameplay loop itself. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 11:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/6-skills-ccp-should-remove-to-drastically-improve-npe/355542/130 "2022-04-15T11:06:39Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > THE single biggest problem on these forums is that they are full of vets who have loooooong since forgotten noob-ness and who eagerly pounce on anyone who is even remotely ‘wrong’ about a single thing. No the single biggest problem is that minds are already made up. Some will post something about how they don’t understand how they got blown up and that it was unfair. “Bitter Vets” will in most cases explain what went wrong and steps that can be taken in order to prevent it from happening again. There will be occassions where there is snark involved. It is a forum after all. However original poster will 9 times out of 10 dismiss this out of hand. Claim the “Bitter Vets” are wrong and have a protracted argument on the subject. Because the intention of the post was never to have a productive discussion. That’s the biggest problem around these parts. Helpful and constructive advice wont always be something you want to hear. But it doesn’t mean those giving the advice are not empathising or posting with good intentions. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 11:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/6-skills-ccp-should-remove-to-drastically-improve-npe/355542/131 "2022-04-15T11:08:33Z")
> [@Jumpdrive](#): > > I would say once you reach about 20 million SPs and you picked your skills with care, you gradually stop caring about getting more SPs. And as a 70million SP pilot with a 6month skill queue and a list of things i want to do/or fly but cant yet…….I’d say this is way off base. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 11:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/6-skills-ccp-should-remove-to-drastically-improve-npe/355542/132 "2022-04-15T11:09:51Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > And as a 70million SP pilot with a 6month skill queue and a list of things i want to do/or fly but cant yet…….I’d say this is way off base. Having recently passed the 100m line and with a skill plan to unlock more fun stuff in the next year and a half, I can confirm. ---
**Author:** ![Kenrailae](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kenrailae/32/494205_2.png) [@Kenrailae](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kenrailae)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 11:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/6-skills-ccp-should-remove-to-drastically-improve-npe/355542/133 "2022-04-15T11:10:29Z")
Depends on what you want to do, but yes, I didn’t really start just dropping skills in the queue til about 150m sp ---
**Author:** ![Mii\_Lady](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mii_lady/32/380260_2.png) [@Mii\_Lady](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mii_Lady)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 11:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/6-skills-ccp-should-remove-to-drastically-improve-npe/355542/134 "2022-04-15T11:11:44Z")
Well as far as I am concerned the fact that CCP has just added a Magic 14 core ship operation expert system for £4 says it all. Magic 14 needs to go. Maybe add a new skill to replace that lost training time at the TITAN level. _Veteran Spaceship Command_ with a 20x multiplier. Lvl 5 req for Titan. You know as all the vets are so concerned with making EVE too easy… ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 11:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/6-skills-ccp-should-remove-to-drastically-improve-npe/355542/135 "2022-04-15T11:15:00Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > However original poster will 9 times out of 10 dismiss this out of hand. Claim the “Bitter Vets” are wrong and have a protracted argument on the subject. Because the intention of the post was never to have a productive discussion. In my experience, vet ‘advice’ is often in the form of ’ don’t you know how to use Local and D-Scan yet. ROFL !'…or comments of that sort…which immediately riles people. Add to that the fact that the combative element of the game and the various rivalries spill over into here, and it is no surprise that it all goes south quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Jumpdrive](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jumpdrive/32/285032_2.png) [@Jumpdrive](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jumpdrive)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 11:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/6-skills-ccp-should-remove-to-drastically-improve-npe/355542/136 "2022-04-15T11:15:46Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > And as a 70million SP pilot with a 6month skill queue and a list of things i want to do/or fly but cant yet…….I’d say this is way off base. It works for me. You can max out some play styles with less. Skills only go up to level 5. There’s a lot of skills that affect just one style in one ship, but about 20 million knocks most of these out of the way. I’m the first one to say skillpoints are very important, but only up to a point. Once you get there, you can grind your time as efficiently as the best of them. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/6-skills-ccp-should-remove-to-drastically-improve-npe/355542/137 "2022-04-15T11:25:17Z")
> [@Mii\_Lady](#): > > Magic 14 needs to go. I’m still not buying it. I get the reasons and can definitely see upsides. But at the end of the day some of these skills are a differentiator as things progress. It doesn’t mean you wont be able fly a ship…….It just means you have to be more careful with the fitting. Instead of filling all 5 hard points with T2 you might have to fit 5 T1 or a variant or accept 4 T2’s. Eve ship choice and fitting is based on a whole host of decisions and tradeoffs. To me thats what makes EVE and i think taking away situations where players have to make decisions because of limitations is more damaging to the game as a whole than the status quo. What i would say is I hate seeing new players being told to prioritise the magic 14 over skills that will actually make a difference in the “fun zone”. Train to fly more ships and look at CPU, PG ans Cap skills when players actually run into problems with fitting. Which often isnt as soon as you would think. Edit: Ill add to this that in many cases changing rigs and making a sacrifice on tank or dps may also be an option to temporarily give players the extra little bit thats needed for module flexibility. We/They already have tools and options. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 11:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/6-skills-ccp-should-remove-to-drastically-improve-npe/355542/138 "2022-04-15T11:28:40Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > There is a mindset that i just cant relate to that focuses solely on what players want to fly (or in their heads should be able to fly). Instead of what happens in my head which is always about how i can make the most of what i can fly. And to my mind its related to the fallacy that bigger or blingyer is better. Again this probably comes from other games where the gear you role around in at day 1 will never be used again…….whereas in eve that Tristan or Heron or Venture will always have a use no matter how many skills you have. Case in point rage posts from a 2 week old pilot who lost a poorly fit Raven and “quit”. What the hell were they even doing in that ship anyway. But rather than expressing exasperation that a noob was in the wrong ship, surely the correct stance is to wonder what perception gave them the idea that they needed it. Simply arguing that people are wrong misses the whole point. WHY are they gaining that impression ? WHY are there 2 or 3 month old noobs flying about who have no idea how to use d-scan ? And so on. Noobs will grasp on to any bit of info as important…that is how learning goes. But missing info can totally sway the perception. It is not at all hard to see how a noob can end up thinking they ‘need’ some totally inappropriate ship. Heck, I even did that ( on a smaller scale ) yesterday in my new account…wasted 1.5m ISK on the wrong ship. The average noob doesn’t have the luxury of another account with billions in it. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 11:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/6-skills-ccp-should-remove-to-drastically-improve-npe/355542/139 "2022-04-15T11:34:18Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > WHY are there 2 or 3 month old noobs flying about who have no idea how to use d-scan ? And so on. I can answer this one: because d-scan is not necessary to play most basic parts of the game, just immensely useful when you know how to use it. It took me a long time as well before I started learning how to effectively use d-scan. And that was no problem, there are many aspects of the game that I still have no clue about and might learn to use eventually when it becomes relevant. For a newbie doing their first missions or mining in high sec, d-scan is not required to play. So unless they go out of their way to learn how to use it (for example for the egg hunt) there is nothing wrong when they learn other aspects of the game first. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 11:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/6-skills-ccp-should-remove-to-drastically-improve-npe/355542/140 "2022-04-15T11:35:33Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > But rather than expressing exasperation that a noob was in the wrong ship, surely the correct stance is to wonder what perception gave them the idea that they needed it. Simply arguing that people are wrong misses the whole point. Which i did in the associated thread. I made several long posts in that specific thread talking about how CCP and Newbie corps both arn’t doing enough to educate players that bigger is not better. CIlly posted several times in that thread as well as i recall. This shouldn’t be news to you. I gave what i considered to be good advice and acknowledged a broader issue where CCP could do better and gave suggestions on that to. And this earned me what? A thank you? A “I never considered that. It’s worth thinking about? A i disagree but thanks for taking the time to address my post. Nope………I was called “Vile” for whatever reason. So I’m sorry. Presenting this as a one sided issue that the forum doesn’t “help” new players is disingenuous. If new players are posting here and open to hearing honest and most of the time helpful advice then it will work for them. If however they simply want an echo chamber to confirm their pre conceived bias’s then it wont. ---
**Author:** ![Jumpdrive](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jumpdrive/32/285032_2.png) [@Jumpdrive](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jumpdrive)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 11:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/6-skills-ccp-should-remove-to-drastically-improve-npe/355542/141 "2022-04-15T11:40:23Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > It took me a long time as well before I started learning how to effectively use d-scan. And that was no problem, there are many aspects of the game that I still have no clue about and might learn to use eventually when it becomes relevant. LOL. A long time ago, a friendly GM advised me to use D-scan on my first day and I just listened and used it ever since. EVE is not as nearly complicated as we sell it to the outside world. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 11:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/6-skills-ccp-should-remove-to-drastically-improve-npe/355542/142 "2022-04-15T11:47:03Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > Specifically on the skills and in relation to Drones V. There was a discussion where players were basically suggesting that the Tristan was useless without Drones V. It’s not. Certainly not for a new player who will be using it to likely run L1 and L2 missions. That’s nice and all, but new players PvP too. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/6-skills-ccp-should-remove-to-drastically-improve-npe/355542.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/6-skills-ccp-should-remove-to-drastically-improve-npe/355542.md?page=8)