# A better way for War dec's **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [June 24, 2024, 11:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-better-way-for-war-decs/453828 "2024-06-24T11:56:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2024, 3:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-better-way-for-war-decs/453828/206 "2024-08-14T15:04:09Z")
A perspective from inside the game is great and very useful, however, we will have to have a look at a business perspective while looking at the inside the game perspective. Now, if I was CEO of Eve, there is no way I would make a change that would alienate the type of player who loves and adores Eve but simply hasn’t got much time to play. From a business perspective it definitely makes more sense to design part of the game in such a way that it retains the players that love Eve but have little time, part of the goal has to be about retaining subscriptions. So yes, while I understand Dracvlad’s frustration with the stagnancy, we definitely have to consider that management people and games designers within CCP have had a good brainstorm and then presented Eve online in the way we see now with the current changes. I hate to say it but “No structure = no war dec” might now be permanent and set in stone within today’s Eve online, simply to secure the finance from 1000s of subscriptions which simply would not be there if the mechanic was war-dec everyone (even with limitations). Also taking into account the current cost of living crisis Eve has to be careful with it’s subscription plans, when hard times hit people anything under the leisure category is the first to be cancelled, CCP does have to play it safe and make sure all players at least have some options in-game. I like your suggestions as they support the little guy, there are many who won’t agree and will claim these suggestions promote stagnancy. I’m leaning towards stagnancy being unavoidable. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2024, 7:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-better-way-for-war-decs/453828/207 "2024-08-14T19:31:06Z")
> [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > Pros/cons? It’s just bandaid fix for an inherently broken system. You cannot _tweak_ it, you have to completely abandon it and think it completely new, from scratch. Then _maybe_ a better system can be created that is focused on fun and interesting/challenging combat instead of cheap structure farming against targets that can’t fight back anyway. As long as the wardec mechanics allow large, rich, organized, veteran-groups to intentionally seek targets that have no reasonable way to effectively defend their assets, while still having full CONCORD-shield up against any possible drive-by thirdparty-ambushes, the system will stay broken. There is simply not a single bit of risk for the attackers. It will always be a farming-system that enforces losses and drains loot out of new/weak/small groups and transfer that value to already old/strong/large groups. And no “limits” or “delays” will ever fix that unless the core mechanics are completely changed. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2024, 11:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-better-way-for-war-decs/453828/208 "2024-08-14T23:14:57Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > And no “limits” or “delays” will ever fix that unless the core mechanics are completely changed. Hi, I am a “nullbrain” and I approve of the above message. > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > If CCP really wants changes to a wardec mechanism, it has to be re-designed from the ground up (which would be the “consequences” part). ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2024, 8:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-better-way-for-war-decs/453828/209 "2024-08-15T08:15:22Z")
Am I incorrect, a blue donut is often friend/enemies to think otherwise is naivety. I am well aware of your past conflict with Khromius, I know that he and some other war deccers had a dislike of gankers and vice versa. And I am also aware that you have often worked together. You have your area and they have theirs. Which is what you detailed. > [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > What have i seen since then… > Players that want to play the game and do so…ive taught quite a few the proper basics. > More importantly I have seen droves in the thousands in the past 6 yrs or so that dont want to play the game…they want to AFK, they want to bot, they want someone to hold their hand or ride on that persons coat tails… > > I am not superior, I have simply played longer and more aggressivley and more properly than most of those in that category. But that is saying you are superior, I get it you are a very good player and have earnt this by using available mechanics and hard effort, I can respect that, do you think I cannot see that. Let me be clear, this is not a dig, you are looking down on those other players, take me for example, I could farm like crazy and start funding large numbers of accounts, but I just don’t want to, that makes me a lower level player in a game that rewards excessive multi-boxing, so that is my decision and makes me a less effective eve player. > [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > I am not bored, however to any casual this is my response to wanting certain content, to wanting the PLEX offer i make, the better than Jita pay for ore that i do… There is no one really opposing that blue donut in HS, you talked about stagnation, it is you and the others that got it there. I stand corrected on the boredom suggestion, I think you do all of the differing sides of Eve, mostly indy so you are not bored, it was the ice that you picked up on all those years ago, which is good, but the boredom side of things does affect certain gankers. I don’t blame you for overplaying your hand, for many years I used the term be careful of over fishing to gankers and war deccers, they did not take that into account, so here we are. My suggestion is to try to push war decs to a lower smaller level. Anyway I respect you for opening up on here, and I am well aware that you earnt your success, I can even say well played to you sir, because you have nailed it. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2024, 8:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-better-way-for-war-decs/453828/210 "2024-08-15T08:27:18Z")
I liked your post for identifying the issues so clearly, what I don’t like about your post is that you offer no further detail than re-do from scratch. I look at the war dec system as a starting point for PvP in hisec, that is the lens in which CCP has to address it, you are quite right with this: > [@Syzygium](#): > > As long as the wardec mechanics allow large, rich, organized, veteran-groups to intentionally seek targets that have no reasonable way to effectively defend their assets, while still having full CONCORD-shield up against any possible drive-by thirdparty-ambushes, the system will stay broken. That is what has to be broken in some way. My suggestion is aimed at that, but it is not an easy one to do. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2024, 9:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-better-way-for-war-decs/453828/211 "2024-08-15T09:04:38Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > That is what has to be broken in some way. My suggestion is aimed at that, but it is not an easy one to do. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > what I don’t like about your post is that you offer no further detail than re-do from scratch. I didn’t go into detail because I feel it’s somehow a waste of time at this point. As you already have said yourself, it’s a pretty complex topic and there would be very very careful thinking required how to create a system that covers all the multiple aspects the system has today while also knowing that the players that currently do the wardecs do not want a change. They are simply not interested in challenging combat, else they could find that anywhere outside HS. They are interested in making huge profits from the wardec system (and cheap, riskless killmails ^^), just milking weak and new players/groups and they _will_ try to find weak spots in whatever new system anyone comes up with and abuse these to the max to just keep doing that. In addition CCP hasn’t yet said _anything_ about being unhappy with the current situation, so it’s not like all that brainstorming would actually achieve anything. I mean, it isn’t done by just spitting some raw ideas into the room, to really explain _in detail_ how a better concept could work in this complex environment which EVE Online is, I’d probably write a 10 page essay covering all the most important issues and adressing possible consequences of a change. Not gonna do that knowing that nobody from CCP will even read it. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2024, 11:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-better-way-for-war-decs/453828/212 "2024-08-15T11:10:30Z")
You might be surprised - CCP does tend to read some of these threads (even if they don’t reply). … I think the removal of a structure requirement for a war dec is a non-starter (for a variety of reasons), so any proposal with that as the key aspect is probably DOA. As it currently stands, right now only industrial structures really serve a purpose for smaller high-sec corporations. So until such time as CCP either introduces small (less expensive) structures or introduces more benefits to citadels (unlikely) - I don’t see more corporations opting to throw up a structure and make themselves eligible for a war dec. It’s not so much the costs of deploying the structure or even the operating costs - it’s the risk. vs. reward ratio (100% risk - 0% reward). ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2024, 11:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-better-way-for-war-decs/453828/213 "2024-08-15T11:23:42Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > They are simply not interested in challenging combat, else they could find that anywhere outside HS. They are interested in making huge profits from the wardec system (and cheap, riskless killmails ^^), This is perhaps an even bigger issue than the wardec issue. If the kills aren’t easy and victim players grow wise to it and stop falling for it then the complaints of stagnancy start and players request mechanics changes. The stagnancy is also due to the war-deccers risk aversion. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2024, 11:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-better-way-for-war-decs/453828/214 "2024-08-15T11:49:16Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > The stagnancy is also due to the war-deccers risk aversion. No easy kills - they have to work for it, lol. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2024, 11:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-better-way-for-war-decs/453828/215 "2024-11-13T11:49:35Z")
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