# A couple of thoughts for getting new players in **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 22, 2019, 10:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320 "2019-04-22T10:06:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![BDVannessa\_LSG](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bdvannessa_lsg/32/128854_2.png) [@BDVannessa\_LSG](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/BDVannessa_LSG)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/209 "2019-04-23T11:26:55Z")
Hillmar must say that because if ingame traders find that Eve’s population failing they will freeze their accounts immediately and Eve will lose 25% of subscribers. ---
**Author:** ![Noori\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noori_naarian/32/261285_2.png) [@Noori\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noori_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/210 "2019-04-23T11:29:47Z")
> [@BDVannessa\_LSG](#): > > Hillmar must say that because if ingame traders find that Eve’s population failing they will freeze their accounts immediately and Eve will lose 25% of subscribers Players are not stupid. Everyone says “eve is dying”. They recognize is because of corps spammed with alts. I am attempting to fix this issue, and i can guarentee this if hilmar would remove criminal action and forced wars from high sec (or at least, create an offer to surrender for x Isk per a player in corp). that was pve corps can instantly surrender. However this just really encouraged war dec spam and will require the “bi-weekly peace” to be increased to a month, and should prevent all war decs so real war means something. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/211 "2019-04-23T11:30:00Z")
> [@Noori\_Naarian](#): > > So, the server is lying then, and the average online is not dropping 37, 32, 22,21k? No, it’s rising from a 19k average in July 2016 to a 21k average this month. If you cherry pick statistics, you will get what you want to see. > [@Noori\_Naarian](#): > > The problem, as he puts it, is that _EVE Online’s_ underlying technology is old, such that when thousands of people – of its 300K active userbase, **10K new people per week** – throw themselves into pitched battle, “the technology absolutely is at its breaking edge […] absolutely at its brink.” Nothing there mentions a single thing about retention rate. Your quote only says how many new players start each week, not about how many stay ‘x’ period of time. Retention rate is how many stay, not how many start. So, no, it’s not in the article like you have been claiming, so… either you can’t read, or you are lying. ---
**Author:** ![BDVannessa\_LSG](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bdvannessa_lsg/32/128854_2.png) [@BDVannessa\_LSG](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/BDVannessa_LSG)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/212 "2019-04-23T11:30:43Z")
> [@BDVannessa\_LSG](#): > > 1000, 2000, 1000 000 per year and from nowhere come Apex legend and get 5 000 000 players in first month, after that owners could only call in CCP to report why Eve do not have that numbers ??? You can not hide the truth. CCP loosing ground and will have to answer to owners. ---
**Author:** ![Taloris\_Aldercain](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/taloris_aldercain/32/317529_2.png) [@Taloris\_Aldercain](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Taloris_Aldercain)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/213 "2019-04-23T11:31:33Z")
Oui, we’re still at this? CCP is looking at cloud-based tech for those large battles that push the old hardware to a bleeding edge, so a moot point if successful. EVE is never going to have a playerbase like Apex Legends @BDVannessa_LSG. You’re comparing two fundamentally different games following two different principals of design, targeting two different markets and demographics. To even consider any possible changes to the game to make it a mainstream mess would require an entirely new game to be created (if we’re looking to be cost effective). Even then, why do that when there’s Elite Dangerous for that specific group, or Start Conflict, or any other game. @Noori_Naarian This is why published numbers for a playerbase or subscribers is stupid to have, they don’t give a proper idea on the active playerbase. But of course that’s not what investors look for, they look for high numbers providing high numbers. Again though, your suggested changes to the game would do nothing to actually “improve the game” and are only being suggested since you’d be using it to your advantage. And I say that for the same reason above - it’s more cost effective to make a new game, or as CCP is currently going to try, license the IP out for spin-off titles to see which one sticks. EVE is not going to have a PVP-free high security space, and even if it did the underlying mechanics of the game would still allow people to do as they’ve been doing with less options to do anything about it. ---
**Author:** ![Noori\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noori_naarian/32/261285_2.png) [@Noori\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noori_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/214 "2019-04-23T11:33:03Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > No, it’s rising from a 19k average in July 2016 to a 21k average this month. > If you cherry pick statistics, you will get what you want to see. EIther your lying, or the server is, i know who im gona believe. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Nothing there mentions a single thing about retention rate. Yea, no kidding buttercup. If 10k people are coming to eve, and the average online is dropping, definitely the retention rates are trash. ---
**Author:** ![BDVannessa\_LSG](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bdvannessa_lsg/32/128854_2.png) [@BDVannessa\_LSG](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/BDVannessa_LSG)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/215 "2019-04-23T11:34:01Z")
> [@Taloris\_Aldercain](#): > > EVE is never going to have a playerbase like Apex Legends @BDVannessa_LSG. You’re comparing two fundamentally different games following two different principals of design, targeting two different markets and demographics. To even consider any possible changes to the game to make it a mainstream mess would require an entirely new game to be created (if we’re looking to be cost effective). Even then, why do that when there’s Elite Dangerous for that specific group, or Start Conflict, or any other game. Tell that to CCP owners, not to me, they will call in Hilmar to report about number of players and profit … ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/216 "2019-04-23T11:37:00Z")
> [@Noori\_Naarian](#): > > EIther your lying, or the server is Or you know, the monthly average for July 2016 was actually 19k and you are just unable to read a graph? Consider that possibility. And that a monthly average of 21k for the last month therefore does not spell certain doom or even a dropping average over the last several years. It ‘could’ indicate a slight drop, or it could just be part of the natural variation. We don’t have the statistics yet for the rest of 2019 to know. However running around screaming doom & gloom and insisting there need to be changes based on one months stats… that’s stupidity. And… > [@Noori\_Naarian](#): > > > Also you still have provided no reference for the retention rate you claimed > > ^ its right there, pleb Oh look, you lied about the retention rate being there, even though you knew it wasn’t there as per your last post. What a surprise. Much like you’ve lied about CCP saying other things in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Taloris\_Aldercain](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/taloris_aldercain/32/317529_2.png) [@Taloris\_Aldercain](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Taloris_Aldercain)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/217 "2019-04-23T11:39:30Z")
And business will be business as usual. The money doesn’t need to come from individual players, and the investors aren’t going to care if it is or not. This has nothing to do with new players or getting them in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Noori\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noori_naarian/32/261285_2.png) [@Noori\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noori_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/218 "2019-04-23T11:43:12Z")
> [@Taloris\_Aldercain](#): > > This is why published numbers for a playerbase or subscribers is stupid to have, they don’t give a proper idea on the active playerbase. This statement is ambiguous. The server clearly states the players online. If we continue with ccp’s old numbers when they published monthly data, around 65% of players are unique. > [@Taloris\_Aldercain](#): > > Again though, your suggested changes to the game would do nothing to actually “improve the game” and are only being suggested since you’d be using it to your advantage. Lets be clear about something, I will never, ever, advocate for changes to a game for my personal advantage. My time on these forums are mainly as a developer (ok, maybe out side of some posts that are a little role-play ish, i do as a player). I will never make suggestions to eve with the intent of buffing the aspects of game play i play, by the way, at heart im a pure pvper, who wants to be in null. > [@Taloris\_Aldercain](#): > > “improve the game” On this part of the point. The game has a max potential player base. There is a number out there, that eve can cap out on. Its speculation what that is, but we know it is at least 65k, because we saw it happen. I choose to believe the max online could be around 250-300k. the reason why i have this position is because i know, from industry metrics, that mmo’s population is predominately pve based. So we have two options 1. Appeal to the limited, Pvp, egocentric population. 2. Appeal to the population which is pve based For example If 50% of eve’s potential population is pvp based, we can acquire no more then 10k If 50% of eve’s population is pve based, we can acquire 20k or more (or more being new players that have no tried the game). The reason is because anyone that wanted this type of abusive, pvp would o already been here. Thus, the potential population eve can get from those players is really limited to returning players, and a very small crowd of new pvpers. On the other hand, a great many pver’s exist on the market, since the market is heavily driven by pvers (82-83% focus on this content). There is no competition between the two, definitely appealing to pvers in the up coming patch or two will significantly improve the games population. ---
**Author:** ![Noori\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noori_naarian/32/261285_2.png) [@Noori\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noori_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/219 "2019-04-23T11:45:57Z")
According to hilmar, eve gains 10,000 new players a week. So either he is a liar, or this game is bleeding people insanely fast. The question is, what is causing that to happen. Since they are all new players, the problem is in high sec. So what is it that is in high sec is an optional to 10k people laeving the game a week? Either the game is insanely abusive to new players, or high sec sucks bad, or hilmar is a liar. Which one is it? Do we remove the abuse, fix the income, or declare the ceo of ccp a liar and expose him? **Stop hiding the truth.** the next time, I will blog post about it, and then turn it to reddit. You will not bury the truth. I will expose it. ---
**Author:** ![Noori\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noori_naarian/32/261285_2.png) [@Noori\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noori_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/220 "2019-04-23T11:46:56Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Or you know, the monthly average for July 2016 was actually 19k and you are just unable to read a graph? Why are you talking about a single month, that happen 3 years ago? Stop trying to confuse the numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Taloris\_Aldercain](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/taloris_aldercain/32/317529_2.png) [@Taloris\_Aldercain](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Taloris_Aldercain)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/221 "2019-04-23T11:50:03Z")
> [@Noori\_Naarian](#): > > ccp is lying, constantly, they use a statistic to post to the players an idea that something is true, but is in fact not”. But now when you need to use it the data is magically accurate? Make up your mind. Active players never means active players, it’s always accounts active in the game much like how Steam’s launcher records active players. You’re a “pure pvper”. Okay. And yes, it is speculation. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/222 "2019-04-23T11:54:20Z")
21k July 2017. 23k July 2018. The point is that you are cherry picking numbers, you are trying to use a 15 year average as part of your argument and complaining about me using figures from the last 3 years. Especially since the maths on getting those averages changes once you go over the 1 month time period because it removes some of the timestamped data and looks at the days average/peak, while the 1 month data includes all the lowest points in the day still. So not only are you cherry picking data, it’s data generated using a different analytical method, which means you can’t compare the two. Also, you have creates a false question as to ‘what is wrong’. There are a million different answers. “The game is complex and people are dumb” is a possible answer why people don’t stay. I mean look at how wrong you keep getting quotes, reading and statistics. “The game requires long term investment and people want a quick thrill”, hey look, that’s another very likely answer. You can keep going, but by reducing the possibilities to only three answers which all suit you, you are lying in your posts in an attempt to make CCP look bad. So please, take it to a blog and reddit it, and watch it get utterly destroyed by the internet because of how bad you are at actually doing any analysis. Oh, especially please blog that CCP are lying and such, because as soon as you take this onto your blog, it becomes a clear libel/slander situation where you are lying to create a bad impression of them, I’m sure their lawyers will love that. ---
**Author:** ![Noori\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noori_naarian/32/261285_2.png) [@Noori\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noori_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/223 "2019-04-23T11:58:03Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > The point is that you are cherry picking numbers, you are trying to use a 15 year average as part of your argument and complaining about me using figures from the last 3 years. No, I am showing the averages that have taken place on many different time scales. Over a week, month, year, or life time. You cannot dodge the truth, the population is shrinking. Im gona make this a little easier by doing this. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/c/d/cdd94259929155aaec2b10a1fec7f2deb2741582.png) And with that i will let the server prove, that the rates are dropping **as most of the last year is below the average, which means its declining** game over buttercup ---
**Author:** ![Noori\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noori_naarian/32/261285_2.png) [@Noori\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noori_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/224 "2019-04-23T11:59:11Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > So please, take it to a blog and reddit it, and watch it get utterly destroyed by the internet because of how bad you are at actually doing any analysis. That is the point, its off the forums, where you and alts cannot abuse the flag option. If its on my blog, you and ccp cannot touch it, which means, word gets out, and ccp gets exposed (because people will go fact check it) and ultimately, hilmar gets fired. ---
**Author:** ![Taloris\_Aldercain](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/taloris_aldercain/32/317529_2.png) [@Taloris\_Aldercain](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Taloris_Aldercain)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/225 "2019-04-23T11:59:43Z")
That’s not how any of that works. ---
**Author:** ![Noori\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noori_naarian/32/261285_2.png) [@Noori\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noori_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/226 "2019-04-23T11:59:58Z")
> [@Taloris\_Aldercain](#): > > That’s not how any of that works. How any of what? ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 12:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/227 "2019-04-23T12:01:19Z")
Cancer doesn’t care about how it spreads, or if it’s right or wrong. It just spreads. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 12:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/228 "2019-04-23T12:01:53Z")
Just an fyi, player activity started trending down since December-ish 2018. Possible drivers? Bot banning or wardec nerfs. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320.md?page=9) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320.md?page=11)