# A couple of thoughts for getting new players in **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 22, 2019, 10:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320 "2019-04-22T10:06:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 8:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/123 "2019-04-22T20:25:55Z")
I have no idea what “my” posts have to do with this. We were talking about claims of other people about new players. You’re not actually intelligent, could you please stop pretending? ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 9:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/124 "2019-04-22T21:27:40Z")
https://coub.com/embed/2hdxx?maxheight=267&maxwidth=640 ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 9:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/125 "2019-04-22T21:29:46Z")
> [@Leah\_Crowleymass](#): > > I don’t get pissy with the kids these days because they don’t have to go through that nonsense. It sucked, and I’m glad nobody has to do that anymore. You should, though, because it’s no different to any other thing that’s “too challenging”, “too complicated” or whatever. You just sucked at reading one or two manuals and placing jumpers on a soundcard. I did the same things you did and I had no issues. Any and all examples **never** sit on either side of the equation. There are no sides! It is **always** the fact that someone, who isn’t willing to learn, is someone who is unable to perform certain tasks, or unable to achieve certain goals. Everything is easy, because everything can be learned. Things only turn hard, or challenging, when someone refuses to learn. See also: Ignorance is Strength. There is **no** difference between yours or any other example. The fact that you didn’t like it, or you sucked at it, changes nothing about it. On the contrary … it rather proves the point. > [@Leah\_Crowleymass](#): > > I don’t think that people should become over-reliant on tech to fill in the blanks of an artistic pursuit. If you’re an artist, prove it to me without training wheels. Correct. > [@Leah\_Crowleymass](#): > > When I talk to kids who are learning production, I tell them that challenges and limits are good for that reason. You’re here for a challenge, so embrace that. If you can cut a killer song with 8 tracks, think about what you could do with 80. One step after the next. Correct. > [@Leah\_Crowleymass](#): > > So, my suggestion is to not focus on what the vets did back in the day simply because that’s the way it was, but rather on what the result was and why it was important. Yes. > [@Leah\_Crowleymass](#): > > If the “old way of doing things” yielded good results, then cool- if it objectively sucked, then why keep it? Taking the example of can-flipping: It did yield good results. It only sucked for those who whined about it. Those who were happy had no reason to complain, which made the whiners look significant. What is this talking about new players about anyway? Does anyone really have any ■■■■■■■ idea what the flying ■■■■ he is talking about? Is it about the fact that the modern “gamer” is a borderline mindless automaton, incapable of having conscious, critical, analytical thoughts? If so … then yes, we’re defintiely heading into this direction for people in general. The amount of people who are indeed cognitively challenged is increasing dramatically and getting worse with every generation. This parody wonderfully explains how people are being treated like idiots, which eventually turned the following generation into actual idiots: [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/f/8/7/f874da27ac5bd725188295877e7129740de22301.jpeg "If Doom was done today (Part 1)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4yIxUOWrtw) Compared to the original DOOM I feel like I must have been a genius for making it through without all this hand-holding people are getting. It is absolute correct to say that our children are suffering from a significantly reduced amount of hardships and challenging, making them dumber as a natural consequence. They suffer from a reduced need to be self responsible, they suffer from a lack of hardships and challenges and they are being far too spoiled with all kinds of shits no one actually truly needs. They just want them, because they believe they want them and they get them because their parents are trash who should have never bred. Even though I could write extensively about this, what lead to it, what’s going to come in the next five to ten years, about how things happening today will be massively shaping the children of tomorrow, and about how it will get much, much, MUCH worse … blablabla … whatever, waste of time, TL;DR: Yes, people nowadays are dumber because they’re having it vastly easier, vastly more convinient and are being too much protected for far too long already. They’re also growing dumber because “capitalism” paid science hundreds of billions over many decades to figure out how to side-step “critical thinking” to make people believe they want to spend money. Identity Politics empowers wannabe individuals to an undeserved level, ruining their personalities. Everyone’s education is actually going to the shits in one way or another. Media and games help making everyone believe they’re special and important. Participation trophies remove any and all interest in getting better and too many people believe “we’re all equal” as if that made any sense what so ■■■■■■■ ever. And the most important one, which sadly doesn’t seem to be recognized in every day’s world by those who actually read 1984: **Ignorance has literally become a Strength.** The list of changes to society that happened in the last decades was absolutely crazy and definitely bad for our children. Anyone claiming that our children haven’t gotten dumber and way more dependent is most likely a huge part of that problem. Anyone claiming that in many western countries it’s not actually the government and media raising their children is a ■■■■■■■ idiot. This is actually what we are talking about. A topic covering politics, media, the music industry and the gaming industry and every big company that wants to make money in general. Science has put us, humanity, into a position where manipulating masses of people has become a real thing and that knowledge is being used actively simply because it means money. Anyone claiming that the current “mainstream” generation aren’t actually, in general, less intelligent, less thoughtful, less considerate and less emotionally mature than their counterparts from 20-30 years before them simply isn’t educated enough about the matter to make a call. Whenever you spot someone who shows signs that “Ignorance is Strength” you can rest assured that he, too, is a part of the problem. I’ve written this post over the course of an hour and a half, or longer, with plenty of interruptions. I don’t care if it’s incoherent, off topic or whatever. I believe that most people don’t even have the attention span reading through it (AND YOU KNOW THAT THIS IS THE CASE, YET YOU BRUSH IT ASIDE BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO ■■■■■■■ CLUE HOW MUCH OF A PROBLEM THAT ACTUALLY IS), and I believe that many will lack the ability to actually understand at least the reasonable parts. Equally a huge problem, just brushed aside casually because people have no ■■■■■■■ concept of actual intelligence or self awareness. In any case, to go full circle: Making the game easier for idiots is only going to push away those who aren’t idiots. Those who like it hard, complicated, challenging. The end result is a game filled with idiots, killing the game, because consuming idiots are unsustainable. If you ever wondered why there’s always a lack of FCs and an abundance of idiots willing to press F1 then stop wondering, because the answer is obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 9:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/126 "2019-04-22T21:42:39Z")
> [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > The other really big problem is EVE’s experienced players. > > They are what stand between new players and social integration, which is, IMO, the biggest single problem. It’s unfortunate, because while EVE has an extremely high proportion of the worst people in gaming, it also has some of the best - but it’s not possible for a new player to distinguish between them. Elena keeps saying it’s the vets holding new players down but never backs it up. Where as there’s this: [https://forums.eveonline.com/t/this-is-abuse-and-ccp-has-made-eve-pay-to-win-players-should-be-outraged-and-know-about-these-issues/154073/101](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/this-is-abuse-and-ccp-has-made-eve-pay-to-win-players-should-be-outraged-and-know-about-these-issues/154073/101) ---
**Author:** ![Leah\_Crowleymass](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/leah_crowleymass/32/131904_2.png) [@Leah\_Crowleymass](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Leah_Crowleymass)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 9:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/127 "2019-04-22T21:49:54Z")
> [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > You just sucked at reading one or two manuals and placing jumpers on a soundcard. I did the same things you did and I had no issues. All I’m going to say to that is this- I did quite well at this and made a pretty good living at it. But I’m not here to sell my skills that you seem to want to diss for some odd reason. I have a lot of respect for your opinions and insights at times. But as you inexplicably seem to insist on mixing your commentary with unproductive insults, I’m done. I try to keep it light and friendly and if you’re not interested in that, do your thing, man. ---
**Author:** ![Elena\_Laskova](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elena_laskova/32/11436_2.png) [@Elena\_Laskova](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elena_Laskova)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/128 "2019-04-22T21:51:48Z")
Daichi I don’t see the point of your following me around and making foolish comments. Perhaps you’d like some lessons on how to effectively insult other posters? For you I’ll only charge 240 million ISK/hour. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 9:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/130 "2019-04-22T21:55:18Z")
Damn that is some bittervet! Lol. Can’t fault the message though. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 9:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/131 "2019-04-22T21:56:37Z")
I don’t think I can eat anymore 🍿 I still like the fleet finder idea. ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 9:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/132 "2019-04-22T21:57:59Z")
i bet you > [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > like it hard too 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 9:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/133 "2019-04-22T21:59:37Z")
Insult? What insult? You bash ‘bitter vets’ as if they are a problem for the npe, except they are the most effective npe providers. You can’t back up the claim. ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Saboteur](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dread_saboteur/32/270709_2.png) [@Dread\_Saboteur](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dread_Saboteur)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 10:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/134 "2019-04-22T22:02:38Z")
This is true no NPE will teach you as much as an active decade old player heck some players have been involved in this game longer than most staff working at CCP now I’ve seen first hand a rather experienced wormholer beat down a CCP dev with facts on bugs present in wh space ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 10:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/136 "2019-04-22T22:07:33Z")
> [@Leah\_Crowleymass](#): > > unproductive insults Emotional openness and honesty is preferrable to people who keep it artificially nice. Being emotionally open and honest does not indicate a lack of productivity or intelligence. It is just those who have not learned to deal with it, who deem it as such. Even science backs up that “letting it out” is definitely healthier than keeping it inside for the sake of artificial niceness. D’uh! It’s completely natural! Screaming “■■■■!” when you hurt yourself is not only perfectly natural, it’s also actually helpful. It’s the same ■■■■■■■ ■■■■, really. The link that exists in that regard is that people with lower intellect are in general also less capable of dealing with their instincts and feelings. This adds to the wrong impression that people, who are emotionally open and honest, also automatically are dumb and or bad people. You are unaware that the only reason, why you are thinking this way, is because you have learned to believe that it is the case and you haven’t managed to actually accept it as something completely natural. The reason why emotional honesty and openness is preferrable, simply is that _honesty_ is always better than _artificially being nice_. We’re living in a world where honesty is being shouted down, and emotional honesty and name calling is bad, but being a passive aggressive, virtue-signalling asshole is a-okay, because “I didn’t use insults therefore I am a good person.” Insulting you is nothing I deliberately and intentionally did, though. You yourself made it sound like you struggled, therefore I concluded you sucked at reading manuals, because - while it was kind of annoying - it was definitely nothing anyone outside of old-age truly had to struggle with. You dismissing WHATEVER simply because you, sometimes for no actual reason except because your ego unnecessarily feels attacked, isn’t really going to help you in life … and I bet you can actually agree on this. Just let it out as well. I appreciate the honesty. It doesn’t mean you, like the freaks, will start calling gankers “evil sociopaths” or CODE members “underage boy rapists” like @StarTerrorPrime did yesterday (the post doesn’t exist anymore). That guy’s level of emotional honesty indicates a serious lack of emotional maturity. You, on the other hand, calling me an asshole/jerk/smartass, doesn’t. You’re not that kind of person and the differences are important. So … we good? ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 10:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/137 "2019-04-22T22:10:55Z")
That made me laugh! 😃 Thank you. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 10:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/138 "2019-04-22T22:11:40Z")
> [@Dread\_Saboteur](#): > > This is true no NPE will teach you as much as an active decade old player They also provide free ships to lose and a fleet to fly with. Fun and games to occupy during dull moments. We **know** by far the best player retention comes from dicking about with others. Not flying shinies and not grinding for mad isk. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 10:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/139 "2019-04-22T22:12:55Z")
The NPE teaches mechanical theory, a player teaches real world practise. In theory, theory and practise are the same. In practise they aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 10:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/140 "2019-04-22T22:16:05Z")
You’re smart, Daichi. Please help me out: CCP Ghost is actively trying to figure out what’s perfectly understandable and obvious for us. Why is he struggling, or what is it he’s struggling with? After rereading my post above realizing that I seriously suck at writing TL;DRs, and because I’m super tired, do I wish you all a good night. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Darine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rich_darine/32/438327_2.png) [@Rich\_Darine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rich_Darine)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 10:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/141 "2019-04-22T22:24:49Z")
> [@Lugburz](#): > > Im sure you will love living in the union. It’ll be good for you guys to get out of the Fourth Reich, they wanna ban your memes haha ---
**Author:** ![Leah\_Crowleymass](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/leah_crowleymass/32/131904_2.png) [@Leah\_Crowleymass](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Leah_Crowleymass)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 10:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/143 "2019-04-22T22:28:04Z")
> [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > _honesty_ is always better than _artificially being nice_ . Well, I think you’re a unnecessarily bitter dude who likes to look for people to yell at for some reason and looks for way to find conflict and hostility where none need exist. And, no, I’m not being artificially nice- I’m a genuinely chill guy who has enough stress in my life to not get riled up over folks in a forum or pixels in space, so I’d rather go hang with my cats than get into a pissing match with somebody that will result in absolutely nothing changing in the game or Western Civilization. And that’s actually unfortunate, because I think we could have (and have had) some good interactions. We agree on more than you seem to think we do. > [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > D’uh! It’s completely natural! Screaming “■■■■!” when you hurt yourself is not only perfectly natural, it’s also actually helpful. So is saying “I’m too old for this ■■■■” and disengaging when I don’t want to waste the time dealing with unneeded negativity. I find myself doing that a lot more as I age- feels good! > [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > It doesn’t mean you, like the freaks, will start calling gankers “evil sociopaths” or CODE members “underage boy rapists” Absolutely not. Like I say, I’m chill and am totally cool with people doing what they want within the rules. It’s a freaking game, we’re here to have fun. Play in that sandbox however you want to 🙂 > [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > So … we good? Dude, I never hold grudges and I’ll gladly buy you a pint if we crossed in a pub. Just lighten the ■■■■ up once in a while! Save that bitterness for Naari! 😆 ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_dorrim_barstorlode/32/361083_2.png) [@ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 10:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/145 "2019-04-22T22:44:10Z")
Removed some off topic posts. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 10:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/146 "2019-04-22T22:44:35Z")
I got the impression ghost knows what we know. But getting it to work in the game is a different thing entirely. There’s the perception of some new players that they should have their hand held by the GAME, until they are ready to stand on their own two feet. It is utterly alien to them that the game doesn’t shelter them, but it is other PLAYERS that provide the best shelter and hold their hand. They want to explore the game for themselves. Which is fine. It’s just that they don’t understand how hard they are making it for themselves. They don’t reach out to other players and miss the greatest part of eve. Then there are some that do reach out to other players but end up in an awful corp with an awful leader. This in particular has become a serious problem lately. Corps that would have never gotten off the ground before wardec nerfs are now rampant and spamming dishonest corp adverts. What to do? - At the very least make corp adverts honest. We have activity trackers now and can make them more honest about their time zones and activities. - Make ccp honest. Advertise the nature of the game as a cut throat pvp sandbox. The new ‘gameplay trailer’ seemed particularly lacking in this area. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320.md?page=8)