# A couple of thoughts for getting new players in **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 22, 2019, 10:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320 "2019-04-22T10:06:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 7:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/169 "2019-04-23T07:39:07Z")
> [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > clear the retention rate is very poor by MMO standards. Really? Source for what the industry standard of retention is? ---
**Author:** ![Elena\_Laskova](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elena_laskova/32/11436_2.png) [@Elena\_Laskova](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elena_Laskova)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 8:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/170 "2019-04-23T08:13:31Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > > [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > > > clear the retention rate is very poor by MMO standards. > > Really? > Source for what the industry standard of retention is? Perhaps you’d like to consider the context and answer the question yourself. Someone quoted both side of the numbers attributed to “Hilmar” a week or two ago: 10K a week in (as per Noori Naarian’s post above), and IIRC low 2-digits retention. And no, I’m not going to look for it. If you want to start making posts in this thread that assume EVE’s retention rate is (1) Ok with CCP and (2) Good by the standards of other MMOs, go right ahead /lol. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 8:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/173 "2019-04-23T08:29:57Z")
CCP does not hold a gun to your head and force you to pay for a subscription. Whether the player decides to stick around and ultimately end up paying for a subscription isn’t a choice that CCP makes, that’s on the player themselves. So sure, it helps CCP, but if the game isn’t fun for someone, CCP is not going to force them to subscribe. I don’t see what your point here is though, am I missing something? ---
**Author:** ![BDVannessa\_LSG](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bdvannessa_lsg/32/128854_2.png) [@BDVannessa\_LSG](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/BDVannessa_LSG)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 9:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/191 "2019-04-23T09:50:23Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > You are just making up stories. or you are delusional ??? Time, ruthless judge, will show! ---
**Author:** ![Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avaelica_kuershin/32/478139_2.png) [@Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avaelica_Kuershin)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 9:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/192 "2019-04-23T09:51:25Z")
Number of accounts on the launcher would give a very good indication. ---
**Author:** ![Elena\_Laskova](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elena_laskova/32/11436_2.png) [@Elena\_Laskova](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elena_Laskova)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 9:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/193 "2019-04-23T09:52:46Z")
I added this about Alphas, but possibly after your reply: > [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > do your numbers account for Alphas somehow? They’re harder to use for “multiboxing”, and the SP limitation makes them less efficient for anything that a PLEX-buyer would want to do. You’d expect an increasing proportion of Alphas to reduce the accounts/player measurement. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 10:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/194 "2019-04-23T10:08:03Z")
There is no reason to believe they don’t account for alphas. CCP have said they consider them valid players so why would they not. Though I would say there is a basis to believe alphas may have 2 or 3 accounts to try different things because of the 5 mil cap sometimes, so I wouldn’t say they automatically drive the number down. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 10:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/195 "2019-04-23T10:17:32Z")
Honestly, I don’t really believe that 1.6 number is really representative. Yes, I am sure if you take all the players that logged in in the last 30 or 90 days, they have that number of accounts, but that number is the biased strongly downward by the thousands of players who try the game each week for a few hours or days and the idea of multiple accounts doesn’t even occur to them. If you normalized by hours played or took some threshold to capture only veteran players, the number of accounts per player would be much higher. ---
**Author:** ![Noori\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noori_naarian/32/261285_2.png) [@Noori\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noori_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 10:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/197 "2019-04-23T10:53:23Z")
> [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > Someone quoted both side of the numbers attributed to “Hilmar” a week or two ago: 10K a week in (as per Noori Naarian’s post above), and IIRC low 2-digits retention. And no, I’m not going to look for it. These rates can be found quoted in the following article: > **[CCP’s Hilmar Petursson says EVE Online isn’t in ‘stagnation’ – it has an...](https://massivelyop.com/2019/04/22/ccps-hilmar-petursson-says-eve-online-isnt-in-stagnation-it-has-an-active-playerbase-of-300k/)** ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 10:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/198 "2019-04-23T10:56:54Z")
Want to show where the retention rate is quoted in that article. ---
**Author:** ![Noori\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noori_naarian/32/261285_2.png) [@Noori\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noori_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 10:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/199 "2019-04-23T10:57:23Z")
_The problem, as he puts it, is that EVE Online’s underlying technology is old, such that when thousands of people – of its 300K active userbase, 10K new people per week – throw themselves into pitched battle, “the technology absolutely is at its breaking edge […] absolutely at its brink.” It wasn’t even what the game was originally built to do: “The technical feat it takes to make [a huge battle] run on computers is way less than the social engineering feat on behalf of the EVE players that even makes this a problem to begin with.”_ > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Want to show where the retention rate is quoted in that article. ---
**Author:** ![Elena\_Laskova](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elena_laskova/32/11436_2.png) [@Elena\_Laskova](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elena_Laskova)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 10:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/200 "2019-04-23T10:57:39Z")
Noori It only says this, which is just one side of the story: _… of its 300K active userbase, 10K new people per week …_ Obviously not all of the 10K stay. The only number I’ve seen for retention (somewhere in the locked “new player” Topic) was low: as per my post, I remember it as 30 or so, but I’m not certain and I CBA checking. Recording the number of characters in the “Rookie Help” channel might provide some data. ---
**Author:** ![Noori\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noori_naarian/32/261285_2.png) [@Noori\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noori_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/201 "2019-04-23T11:01:28Z")
> [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > Obviously the 10K don’t stay. The only number I’ve seen for retention (somewhere in the locked “new player” Topic) was low: as per my post, I remember it as 30 or so, but I’m not certain and I CBA checking. yes, its obviously a lie. Eve does not get 10k a month, which means hilmar is lying. Eve has not seen new player creation rates at 10k or higher, since 2016. and even then, it was very spike oriented, likely an event like the one that just past with the steam-sale. Probably whats going on here (as i stated a week or so ago to my corp members) is the sale is being used as an argument point for eve being in good health, because he can just pull one example like the sale and say “see!” but the truth is, its all alts, and there is not 10k alts a week , much less 10k new players a week, here is proof, from the servers themselves. **blow is the chart for new character creation** ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/6/e/6e4120a9b3ff3dad962b75458bd30a4e66ea96f3.png) ---
**Author:** ![Noori\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noori_naarian/32/261285_2.png) [@Noori\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noori_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/202 "2019-04-23T11:09:21Z")
This is why i say repeatedly, “ccp is lying, constantly, they use a statistic to post to the players an idea that something is true, but is in fact not”. another example i gave was when ccp made the claim “people getting scammed or suicide ganked, improves retention rates”. Now, for a developer at face value, instantly we know this is a half-truthed lie. We are aware that some, occasional loss is good, but this is once or twice a year sort of thing, however, ccp propagates this as a constant “always good, even when done repeatedly” but using a similar, single statistics, or partial statistic to validate the statement. Metrics can be twisted, and people need to fact check them to prove they are true or false, we should not take ccp’s word at face value, they have lied repeatedly to us, told us many times they will do this or that, when in fact, that is not the case. **just like 10k new players is not the case** Look Let me make this easier for you all. I want you to think seriously, 10k new players a week? Do you think you’d “feel” that? I credit the players as being intelligent enough not to fall for this lie, and to be able to recognize it as it is, a flat out lie. ---
**Author:** ![Noori\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noori_naarian/32/261285_2.png) [@Noori\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noori_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/203 "2019-04-23T11:12:33Z")
By the way, I want to post some charts to prove further this is a lie. average the last few days ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/7/8/7817055aa34b8f1b0d0443e12789cf729ab434fa.png) 1 month average ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/6/7/677412bd660e8ee7e87462e41fd448bbd64a460a.png) 1 year average ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/d/e/de6d3a7dfe88e7a35afccf0ce02bddae54c2cd6e.png) life time ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/c/6/c6d3e9c0f1432bac3c30a4fb2e56edce5317782a.png) So i ask the question, If we are dropping from 37,32,22,21k Where are the 10k alts a week? **its clear the population is dropping** LIES UPON LIES ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/204 "2019-04-23T11:13:25Z")
See how that chart says DAILY TOTAL. You add those numbers all up for the week. At a recent average of perhaps 3k per day that’s actually 21k for the week, which means Hilmar was UNDERESTIMATING the new accounts. Also you still have provided no reference for the retention rate you claimed And look at your last graph, how there are similar big drops every year at certain times. You are showing you failed at statistics. ---
**Author:** ![Noori\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noori_naarian/32/261285_2.png) [@Noori\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noori_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/205 "2019-04-23T11:24:08Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Also you still have provided no reference for the retention rate you claimed > **[CCP’s Hilmar Petursson says EVE Online isn’t in ‘stagnation’ – it has an...](https://massivelyop.com/2019/04/22/ccps-hilmar-petursson-says-eve-online-isnt-in-stagnation-it-has-an-active-playerbase-of-300k/)** ^ its right there, pleb ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/206 "2019-04-23T11:24:38Z")
Go on then, quote it. ---
**Author:** ![Noori\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noori_naarian/32/261285_2.png) [@Noori\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noori_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/207 "2019-04-23T11:24:54Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > And look at your last graph, how there are similar big drops every year at certain times. You are showing you failed at statistics. So, the server is lying then, and the average online is not dropping 37, 32, 22,21k? ---
**Author:** ![Noori\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noori_naarian/32/261285_2.png) [@Noori\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noori_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320/208 "2019-04-23T11:25:20Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Go on then, quote it. The problem, as he puts it, is that _EVE Online’s_ underlying technology is old, such that when thousands of people – of its 300K active userbase, **10K new people per week** – throw themselves into pitched battle, “the technology absolutely is at its breaking edge […] absolutely at its brink.” [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-couple-of-thoughts-for-getting-new-players-in/154320.md?page=10)