# A Critique of historical Imperial Reclaiming Policy **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [August 24, 2017, 1:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-critique-of-historical-imperial-reclaiming-policy/19429 "2017-08-24T13:56:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-critique-of-historical-imperial-reclaiming-policy/19429/21 "2017-08-25T15:11:06Z")
Find me a way past CONCORD limitations and I would. Don’t be a disingenuous twat. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-critique-of-historical-imperial-reclaiming-policy/19429/22 "2017-08-25T15:11:32Z")
Since when does CONCORD stop you from shooting Amarr Navy ships? ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-critique-of-historical-imperial-reclaiming-policy/19429/23 "2017-08-25T15:14:10Z")
So far, that hasn’t exactly proven sufficient to start a war. If you want the exact number of Amarr Navy that’s died by my hands, go ask the boss. He’s got the journal records and if you pay him _enough_, I’m sure he’d be able to get you an estimate. Seriously, don’t pretend to be this stupid. You know if it was possible for a capsuleer to kick it off, I would have done so by now. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-critique-of-historical-imperial-reclaiming-policy/19429/24 "2017-08-25T15:26:33Z")
> [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > Seriously, don’t pretend to be this stupid. I’m not the one ranting about needing to start a war and demonizing people for failing to do it, while simultaneously admitting neither I, nor any of them, _can_. On the one hand, you excoriate me for saying we need to find a way to change the strategic situation, and that it’s a guaranteed loss as things stand. We have to do it _now_, you say, while we can still win. On the other, you acknowledge that right now, CONCORD won’t let us win. Which of us is being disingenuous again? ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-critique-of-historical-imperial-reclaiming-policy/19429/25 "2017-08-25T15:30:11Z")
CONCORD doesn’t stand in the way of the Tribes. It stands in the way of capsuleers. I have never demonized a capsuleer for not having started the war, because no capsuleer _can_ start the war. I demonize those who preach _submission and surrender_. I demonize those who say they would sacrifice our people for a false peace. It wouldn’t be the first time the Tribes smacked down CONCORD. It’s just that they need to be the ones to do it. We can’t. Once that is done… … _then_ we could stand a chance. But of course, people like you preach surrender and cowardice, so why the hell would they? ---
**Author:** ![Lasairiona\_Raske](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lasairiona_raske/32/467893_2.png) [@Lasairiona\_Raske](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lasairiona_Raske)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-critique-of-historical-imperial-reclaiming-policy/19429/26 "2017-08-25T15:36:30Z")
🍿 ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-critique-of-historical-imperial-reclaiming-policy/19429/27 "2017-08-25T15:38:15Z")
Apparently, you demonize people who say it’s a bad idea to get the rest of our people killed and enslaved in a futile effort that would only make the Empire stronger in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-critique-of-historical-imperial-reclaiming-policy/19429/28 "2017-08-25T15:39:45Z")
If only that were what you were saying. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-critique-of-historical-imperial-reclaiming-policy/19429/29 "2017-08-25T15:42:05Z")
That’s exactly what I’m saying. It’s what I’ve been saying the entire time. It’s just not what you’ve wanted to hear. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-critique-of-historical-imperial-reclaiming-policy/19429/30 "2017-08-25T15:44:40Z")
I wish I believed you were stupid enough to believe that. At least then I wouldn’t have to think of you as a coward cowering before a potential threat, just to buy a few precious years of false peace before the guaranteed end of it all. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-critique-of-historical-imperial-reclaiming-policy/19429/31 "2017-08-25T16:22:35Z")
Aaaaand now we’re at the point where this devolves into ‘I’m right, you’re wrong’ or name-calling and ‘no u’. Call me a coward over my generally bleak and hopeless view of the universe all you like, Miz. Doesn’t change the fact that when the war starts, I’ll still have your back. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-critique-of-historical-imperial-reclaiming-policy/19429/32 "2017-08-25T16:24:44Z")
I have a sneaking suspicion you’re not on the list of people I’d trust at my back. Nothing personal, it’s a short list to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 4:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-critique-of-historical-imperial-reclaiming-policy/19429/33 "2017-08-25T16:26:25Z")
Pbbbbt. I’m not the one who keeps tasering the other whenever she’s in range. ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 5:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-critique-of-historical-imperial-reclaiming-policy/19429/34 "2017-08-25T17:48:57Z")
Amusing catfights aside, it should be clear what my point is. The Imperial Reclaiming failed when encountering a multi-planet population. Therefore, the military Reclaiming should be consigned to history. Despite what some delusionist persons think (Purity of the Throne, I’m meaning you), the Empire will never have sufficient armed force to subjugate the rest of New Eden. So, Empress Catiz should probably think about using missionaries rather than lasers, to convert people. ---
**Author:** ![Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pieter_tuulinen/32/155371_2.png) [@Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pieter_Tuulinen)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-critique-of-historical-imperial-reclaiming-policy/19429/35 "2017-08-25T17:57:11Z")
The Empire didn’t move on the Republic, even when Jamyl had a casus belli after the Elder Fleet invasion - I can’t imagine why you think Catiz would roll the dice on an invasion of the Republic without one. The Empire certainly wouldn’t enjoy even the tacit support of the State if it did so - don’t forget that the treaty is one of mutual defence and that the State has never supported slavery. If the Republic invaded the Empire, though, the State’s treaty of mutual defence would activate and your best hope would be that the Federation involved itself in a war it didn’t have to join. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-critique-of-historical-imperial-reclaiming-policy/19429/36 "2017-08-25T17:59:42Z")
> [@Valerie\_Valate](#): > > So, Empress Catiz should probably think about using missionaries rather than lasers, to convert people. That or simply stay in their own territory and show the cluster why they’re better. Won’t change many minds on the past (mine included) but who in their right mind is going to flock to the loudest voice in the room just because they offer intangible claims of some superiority. Their reclaiming via the offensive has failed in the situation you have illustrated. Maybe they should try to make good on some of their claims via example instead of adding new ones or doubling down on those claims they already had. A scripture your ancesters wrote is not “proof” of anything, your people show no real reason to flock to their sides. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-critique-of-historical-imperial-reclaiming-policy/19429/37 "2017-08-25T18:28:41Z")
That was kind of my entire point there, Pieter, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-critique-of-historical-imperial-reclaiming-policy/19429/38 "2017-08-25T19:33:00Z")
Mmmh, much better to wait a hundred years for them to finish breaking the people they’ve taken, and _keep_ taking, while building up their forces again. That’ll surely not end in disaster and surely isn’t a complete and utter betrayal of those under their thrall. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-critique-of-historical-imperial-reclaiming-policy/19429/39 "2017-08-25T20:27:56Z")
So let’s just hand them everyone they haven’t taken yet! Let’s destroy everything all of our people have worked for since the slaver filth first attacked! Deuce, Miz, show me even _one_ serious projection that gives us better than a 0.1% of winning that fight if we’re the aggressors. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-critique-of-historical-imperial-reclaiming-policy/19429/40 "2017-08-25T20:30:32Z")
Show me one that doesn’t. It’s our only chance, and you want to throw it away and thus ensuring a guaranteed extinction of all that we are. I wonder, what _is_ your plan once you’ve surrendered? What will you do when they actually become unstoppable and you have sacrificed all they are breaking as we speak? What are you buying with their lives and spirits? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-critique-of-historical-imperial-reclaiming-policy/19429.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-critique-of-historical-imperial-reclaiming-policy/19429.md?page=3)