# A Gentle Review From a New User **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 20, 2022, 7:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864 "2022-12-20T07:22:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 5:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/124 "2022-12-29T17:29:25Z")
> [@Keara\_the\_Reaver](#): > > I wouldn’t call him a troll, he’s more like a devil’s advocate who doesn’t seem to know what he’s advocating for. Heh. Only trying to save the game you allegedly love 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 5:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/125 "2022-12-29T17:41:15Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > A pretty good form up from all parties involved, we were prepared for a world of pain. Were you also at the earlier brawl in Athounon? Kinakka wound up being the second run-in we had with the ABSO Gila fleet, and by that time whoever your FC was decided enough was enough and y’all tried to headshot our FC, which was highly entertaining to listen to on comms. Y’all nearly got’em. Yes I was at Athounon as well. We were nicely destroying the station until your Drakes showed up, but I think we left that one half finished and ended up destroying the one in Kinakka. The Gila doctrine is somewhat new…and different to what I use in Wrecking Machine. But it was all fun…which is what Eve is all about. May there be more soon ! > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > Forum-posting alts always talk about forum-member combat as being some scary risk that requires their anonymity for protection, and now I’m just siting here thinkin’ “It’s pretty cool me and another forum member can banter about the same event from opposite sides, more interesting than the usual forum topics beaten to death”. Its good to be able to banter about stuff we have actually done in Eve, rather than endless hypotheticals. It was great combat and the sort of stuff I actually joined Eve for. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 5:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/126 "2022-12-29T17:41:45Z")
Highsec isn’t supposed to be where people go for fights, so it’s not surprising that it’s no fun for you if what you want are fights. Then again, you mostly seem to shoot structures and I’d rather claw my own eyes out than sit on structures most of the time and I’ll maybe go on two a month, so clearly preferences vary. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > My high skills in armour/tank etc are why I survived yesterday’s combat in Kinakka that saw most of our Gilas destroyed…though I limped off the battlefield with just 10% hull left. From the looks of it that was a fleet fight so I doubt your survival had so much to do with your own skills as much as it was to do with luck. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > As for PvE, I just dont like fighting AI that simply cannot match the complexity of human interactions. So then don’t do it. It is curiious that you dislike fighting AI and you think it’s fine to have that preference but other people dislike fighting players and you seem to hate them for it. Like you I prefer shooting players, so that’s what I do. But that doesn’t mean I have to scream abuse at anyone who goes ratting. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 5:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/127 "2022-12-29T17:57:09Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Highsec isn’t supposed to be where people go for fights, so it’s not surprising that it’s no fun for you if what you want are fights. There isn’t really any ‘supposed’ about it. Its highsec, not absolute sec. It is more restricted, but that makes working around the restrictions more fun. However, for a ganker group of 4…well, one does not want to be ganking Ventures ( I personally don’t gank them ) but its enough for Retrievers but not some of the bigger ships. Ganking with such a small group is hard, as everyone has to score and there is zero room for anyone missing. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > From the looks of it that was a fleet fight so I doubt your survival had so much to do with your own skills as much as it was to do with luck. No, I got targeted and fired at. It was only my decision to break away from the fleet that saved me. I’m not into all the ‘glorious death’ stuff…it’s pointless losing a ship un-necessarily. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > So then don’t do it. It is curiious that you dislike fighting AI and you think it’s fine to have that preference but other people dislike fighting players and you seem to hate them for it. My whole point was that PvP players have _no choice_ but to engage in PvE. And I don’t ‘hate’ anyone. I just wish people would grasp that Eve is designed to be an environment where a player is not safe anywhere in space. That’s the way it has been for 20 years. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 6:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/128 "2022-12-29T18:09:59Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > My whole point was that PvP players have _no choice_ but to engage in PvE. And I don’t ‘hate’ anyone. I just wish people would grasp that Eve is designed to be an environment where a player is not safe anywhere in space. That’s the way it has been for 20 years. You gotta remember you’re arguing with Grampy Box Boy 😃 He’s never gonna argue in good faith LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 6:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/129 "2022-12-29T18:19:06Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > There isn’t really any ‘supposed’ about it. Its highsec, not absolute sec. It is more restricted, but that makes working around the restrictions more fun. I didn’t say it was absolute sec, but the fact that you can’t legally fire on any target without something flagging it as legal (war/suspect status/duel/etc) show that it’s not designed to be a predominantly a place for player combat. You say you like to work around the restrictions but then you seem to constantly complain that there are restrictions. You want targets to shoot but you don’t want to be at threat yourself, I think that’s the real issue. Just fly in lowsec then it’s not a problem, and it’s really not as scary out here as you think. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > No, I got targeted and fired at. It was only my decision to break away from the fleet that saved me. I’m not into all the ‘glorious death’ stuff…it’s pointless losing a ship un-necessarily. Risk aversion is not a skill. However you want to represent it, you didn’t survive the battle because you are uniquely skilled far beyond that of all the pilots that died. I know that you think you are the best mouse user in the world and want to present yourself as vastly superior to most people but really you just seem to be a mediocre pilot in an alliance that feeds you kills. Losing ships is always necessary. Unless we had a predetermined end goal I consider a fleet to be a failure if I don’t fly til I die. It’s just a ship. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > My whole point was that PvP players have _no choice_ but to engage in PvE. What are you talking about? You can buy PLEX and use that to buy ships then go fight players. Why do you have no choice but to do PvE? Who is forcing you? > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > And I don’t ‘hate’ anyone. Even me? You seem to hate a lot of people and you seem to get incredibly angry all the time if people don’t agree with you. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > I just wish people would grasp that Eve is designed to be an environment where a player is not safe anywhere in space. That’s the way it has been for 20 years. Things change. I’m sure you’ll learn to adapt just like people have adapted to massive changes in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 8:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/130 "2022-12-29T20:06:29Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > I didn’t say it was absolute sec, but the fact that you can’t legally fire on any target without something flagging it as legal (war/suspect status/duel/etc) show that it’s not designed to be a predominantly a place for player combat. Agression in lowsec also gets flagged as illegal and one loses security points. In fact pretty much the only difference between 0.4 and 0.5 system is that Concord shows up in the latter. There isn’t even some sharp demarcation…it is a progressive thing within highsec itself. There would be no _point_ in having 0.5 be less secure than 1.0 if there was nothing to be insecure from ! PvP is thus built into the very fabric of highsec. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > You say you like to work around the restrictions but then you seem to constantly complain that there are restrictions. You want targets to shoot but you don’t want to be at threat yourself, I think that’s the real issue. Utter nonsense. You keep inventing a narrative that is not what other people have actually said. I regularly put myself at risk. Only a few minutes ago I was 250m ISK worth of gank. But the gankers have to actually _catch_ me in my fast align ship. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > You seem to hate a lot of people and you seem to get incredibly angry all the time… Yet more utter nonsense invented narrative…and frankly I think admin should delete that as the ad hominem that it actually is. In reality your _entire tactic_ is to accuse everyone else of hate and pose yourself as some sweet innocent victim. It is tiresome and it seems I’m going to have to flag your posts as this inverse vitriol is totally uncalled for. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Things change. Not always for the better. ‘Change’ is not the same word as ‘progress’. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 8:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/131 "2022-12-29T20:21:04Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Agression in lowsec also gets flagged as illegal and one loses security points. In fact pretty much the only difference between 0.4 and 0.5 system is that Concord shows up in the latter. There isn’t even some sharp demarcation…it is a progressive thing within highsec itself. There would be no _point_ in having 0.5 be less secure than 1.0 if there was nothing to be insecure from ! PvP is thus built into the very fabric of highsec. What point are you trying to make here? Yes, the difference between high sec and low sec I concord. The fact hat concord exists and you only get a limited amount of time to take down an illegal target is what shows that high sec is not built predominantly for PvP. If you want to PvP and you refuse to leave highsec then of course you’re going to have _a lot_ of barriers. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Only a few minutes ago I was 250m ISK worth of gank. But the gankers have to actually _catch_ me in my fast align ship. So then you weren’t at risk, at all. It’s fine if you get excited by pretending you are at risk flying around high sec but you’re not. The only time you’re even at risk of losing ships is when you are in fleets and I’m 99.999% sure that your alliance pays SRP for fleets, so you stand to lose nothing. You seem to want to claim everyone else is risk averse but all evidence suggests you’re the most risk averse person here. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Yet more utter nonsense invented narrative…and frankly I think admin should delete that as the ad hominem that it actually is. In reality your _entire tactic_ is to accuse everyone else of hate and pose yourself as some sweet innocent victim. It is tiresome and it seems I’m going to have to flag your posts as this inverse vitriol is totally uncalled for. I’m inventing the narrative? You’re claiming I have some “tactic” and threatening to report all my posts because I said something you don’t agree with. The other day I said something you don’t agree with and you followed me to another post to attack me there too. Nearly every post you make involves you telling people they are lying or speaking nonsense or some other condescending remark. Threatening to abuse the flagging system is not going to make me agree with you, and I hope that if you do start mass flagging posts CCP will take a look at your posting history before they take any action. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Not always for the better. ‘Change’ is not the same word as ‘progress’. I didn’t say it was for the better. Inevitably most change is going to be better for some and worse for others, whether or not it’s “progress” is not something measured by how it affects you personally. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 8:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/132 "2022-12-29T20:26:22Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > It is tiresome and it seems I’m going to have to flag your posts as this inverse vitriol is totally uncalled for. Just ignore the troll, Scot is really upset that we’re having fun in the game without him. Sometimes we just have to let little people belittle. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 8:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/134 "2022-12-29T20:28:26Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > So then you weren’t at risk, at all. Sigh. Alleviating the risk, which any sensible person does, is not the same as there being no risk. I didn’t bother reading the rest of your contrarian nonsense. I am tired of your own hate filled posts in which you always _have_ to have the last word or everyone else is ‘full of hate’. I would suggest you discover a mirror and take a good look. There was _zero_ antagonism on this thread before you joined in. I was happily discussing actual Eve play with Io Koval. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/135 "2022-12-29T20:29:12Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > I didn’t bother reading the rest of your contrarian nonsense. I am tired of your own hate filled posts in which you always _have_ to have the last word or everyone else is ‘full of hate’. I would suggest you discover a mirror and take a good look. There was _zero_ antagonism on this thread before you joined in. I was happily discussing actual Eve play with Io Koval. You know who he is. He’s alt cycling cause people were catching on and not engaging any longer 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/136 "2022-12-29T20:37:11Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Sigh. Alleviating the risk, which any sensible person does, is not the same as there being no risk. What risk are you alleviating? You’re flying a ship that almost certainly isn’t going to be a target in a way that makes it near impossible to catch. The risk isn’t there to alleviate. Fly a 10b isk freighter around and web sling it between gates, that’s alleviating risk. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > I didn’t bother reading the rest of your contrarian nonsense. Thank you for proving my point. I didn’t immediately agree with you and so you called it “contrarian nonsense” and ranted about how terrible I am as a person. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 8:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/137 "2022-12-29T20:48:17Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > What risk are you alleviating? You’re flying a ship that almost certainly isn’t going to be a target in a way that makes it near impossible to catch. The risk isn’t there to alleviate. You have no idea what ship I am flying. what I am carrying, or anything. But of course you just have to be right about everything even when you don’t have a clue. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > I didn’t immediately agree with you and so you called it “contrarian nonsense” I called it contrarian nonsense because that is precisely what it is. You argue just for the sake of arguing…determined to nit-pick every little detail. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > and ranted about how terrible I am as a person. Oh but its just fine and dandy for you…for no reason whatever…to accuse others of ‘hate’ and so on for merely disagreeing with your endless nit-picking. Tiresome. Just utterly tiresome. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 8:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/138 "2022-12-29T20:52:59Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Oh but its just fine and dandy for you…for no reason whatever…to accuse others of ‘hate’ and so on for merely disagreeing with your endless nit-picking. > > Tiresome. Just utterly tiresome. That is why I no longer engage. Oh I haven’t blocked him. I never block 😃 I see his feeble attempts to poke me. I giggle 😃 But he is not worth my time sadly. He could at least acquit himself honorably on the field of New Eden or the forum. Instead he will just continue to alt cycle and hide. It is a sad life for him, only deserving of pity. Continue your EVE journey youngling. You have learned to EVE and that burns like acid for him. ---
**Author:** ![cyraxthehated\_Metesur](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cyraxthehated_metesur/32/409997_2.png) [@cyraxthehated\_Metesur](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/cyraxthehated_Metesur)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 9:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/139 "2022-12-29T21:00:31Z")
Takes a dump, makes more popcorn… ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 9:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/140 "2022-12-29T21:04:39Z")
Erm. No hand washing in between? ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 10:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/141 "2022-12-29T22:35:23Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > You have no idea what ship I am flying. what I am carrying, or anything. I know that it has a combined total of 250m which means it’s not a juicy target by any means. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > I called it contrarian nonsense because that is precisely what it is. You called it contrarian nonsense because that’s what you say to everyone who says something you don’t agree with. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Oh but its just fine and dandy for you…for no reason whatever…to accuse others of ‘hate’ and so on for merely disagreeing with your endless nit-picking. I haven’t said anything negative about you as a person. The fact that you seem to hate some people is evident by the way you attack people. We have different opinions and I think that is fine. I don’t follow you around misquoting you and lobbing insults at you for not agreeing with me which is what you seem to do with anyone that doesn’t say _exactly_ what you want them to say. Is there any chance you want to have a discussion on the topic where your arguments are’t just you personally attacking anyone that disagrees with you? ---
**Author:** ![Aaaarrgg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaaarrgg/32/395089_2.png) [@Aaaarrgg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaaarrgg)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 12:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/142 "2022-12-30T00:05:22Z")
im trying to read all the thread but ill jump in here, eve is not a well designed “game” and never has been ,it is a sandbox and CCP built a server so we all can join in . once there we can all play with the sand . WE ARE the game there is no manual for us . seriously if you need a manual then eve is not for you. in the old days ive heard it said (i iwas there more than once both sides 🙂 that you logged in as a noob undocked in your noob ship and had everything destroyed and stolen then podded then then you got in your new sidewinder ship and restarted the game. the game was the struggle to survive there was no end game and that was the game, you know fun times. i just cant understand folk that cant just log in and do their own thing but need railtracks to tell them where to go and what to do. adults are fully able to decide their own destiny at least thats what we used to do. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 12:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/143 "2022-12-30T00:52:50Z")
Don’t you guys get tired of telling everyone that EVE is not for them? I’m fairly certain it’s up to CCP who they want EVE to be for. It’s not about rail tracks but the game should be built in a way that learning mechanics can be accomplished in-game. This is increasingly important as third-party websites are increasingly abandoned. ---
**Author:** ![Aaaarrgg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaaarrgg/32/395089_2.png) [@Aaaarrgg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaaarrgg)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 1:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/144 "2022-12-30T01:02:12Z")
in the olden times , maybe 10 years ago, adults managed to decide whats for them and if a sandbox was it ,then they decided whats neccesary to deal with that. Adults are able to work out how to shoot the guns in game or whatever it was they wanted to do . this is supposed to be a sandbox and so we decide what to do, we (adults) dont expect ccp to tell us what to do, and this is probably the root of the problem and argument. it is probably a generational thing but ffs a sandbox is just that, its a box of sand filled with cat crap and idiots and we have to play in that and extract fun as we desire. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864.md?page=8)