# A Gentle Review From a New User **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 20, 2022, 7:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864 "2022-12-20T07:22:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Aaaarrgg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaaarrgg/32/395089_2.png) [@Aaaarrgg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaaarrgg)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 1:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/145 "2022-12-30T01:38:47Z")
as an aside and generational thing , way back when i was young and i suspect long before your parents were born my father in the back garden built my brothers and me a “sandbox” it was maybe 6 foot square concrete bottomed with hard concrete surrounds and 6 inch of sand inside. we played in that a hell of a lot and had a lot of fun. but when we cracked our skulls etc as happened more than a few times on the concrete sides that was no problem that was just how the sandbox was, no one batted an eyelid folk just got on with life. these days all sorts of crap would happen. the old days were better in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 2:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/146 "2022-12-30T02:51:26Z")
Cool story. The crux of it is that you’re an adult and everyone you dislike is a crying child, right? We’re probably of the same generation. You just think you’re an exceptional player and that other people being able to play the game you play diminishes your status, while I think it’s a goddamn video game and it’s a good thing if the developers use in-game mechanics to ensure players have the best opportunity to learn it and enjoy it. I think what really upsets you is that you’re no longer the generation most games are targeted at and you’re too rigid to be able to learn to play any other way. Maybe I’m just lucky that I’m adaptable. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 3:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/147 "2022-12-30T03:26:56Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Is there any chance you want to have a discussion on the topic where your arguments are’t just you personally attacking anyone that disagrees with you? _You_ are the one doing all the personal attacking…you hypocrite. You don’t seem capable of posting a single post without some form of ad hominem, and I am sick of it and the way you then try to twist it all around. The only ‘hate’ I see here is you accusing anyone who even mildly disagrees with you of being ‘hateful’. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 3:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/148 "2022-12-30T03:30:43Z")
Do you genuinely believe that? It’s not reality but I’m curious whether you actually believe it to be true or if it’s just gaslighting. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 3:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/149 "2022-12-30T03:33:44Z")
There you go again with the ad hominem. You just cant seem to stop it. You spew out posts calling others ‘hateful’ and other such things and then merely try to double down on it when called out on your own personal attacking of people. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 3:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/150 "2022-12-30T03:35:46Z")
There was no ad hominem there. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 5:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/151 "2022-12-30T05:37:13Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > and I am sick of it This is a perfect case for blocking ~~are we still pretending this alt is not an alt~~ this person. It’s not worth the aggravation. And when enough people stop interacting with ~~him~~ it, ~~he~~ it will ~~drop this character and roll another one~~ get the hint and stop. ---
**Author:** ![Paulino\_Paulio](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/paulino_paulio/32/268771_2.png) [@Paulino\_Paulio](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Paulino_Paulio)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 7:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/152 "2022-12-30T07:17:58Z")
> [@Aaaarrgg](#): > > but when we cracked our skulls etc as happened more than a few times on the concrete sides yes, we can see the effects that had on you. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 9:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/153 "2022-12-30T09:08:56Z")
> [@Aaaarrgg](#): > > my father in the back garden built my brothers and me a “sandbox” it was maybe 6 foot square concrete bottomed with hard concrete surrounds and 6 inch of sand inside. Are you really trying to say that padding these concrete edges with lets say some old rubber tires (so your child does not get permanent brain damage from an unlucky fall), would have made the sandbox less enjoyable? Because the children playing in there can’t “harden up” by having painful experiences? 🤣 How dare you father used only concrete. He should have used razor blades and put glass shards into the sand to make you are real tough guy. ---
**Author:** ![Keara\_the\_Reaver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/keara_the_reaver/32/344828_2.png) [@Keara\_the\_Reaver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Keara_the_Reaver)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 9:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/154 "2022-12-30T09:34:58Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > LOL. I love armchair psych Except it isn’t, it’s just my opinion. That you disagree is perfectly understandable. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > As for me? Well I mined for about 6 hours last night? Had some fun, shooting the breeze in WWIG Good. Now calm down, Miner 😃 > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > You gotta understand, everything Grampy Box Boy is saying, is actually him I don’t know a “Grampy Box Boy” and if you’re talking about that Lucas guy I couldn’t give more of a sh- than I do now. You’re obsessed with him. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Huh. Not sure if serious with this one Unlike you, I mean what I write. I don’t just lay down words to get people mad like you do. ---
**Author:** ![Quentin\_Schaefer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quentin_schaefer/32/471507_2.png) [@Quentin\_Schaefer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Quentin_Schaefer)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 9:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/155 "2022-12-30T09:51:33Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > He should have used razor blades and put glass shards into the sand to make you are real tough guy. Well, glass is made of sand, so, technically he DID put glass in there… ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 10:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/156 "2022-12-30T10:09:56Z")
> [@Quentin\_Schaefer](#): > > Well, glass is made of sand, so, technically he DID put glass in there… Sand is not the same as glass, yet a glass shard. Not even ‘technically’. Did you have a concrete sandbox with some hard edges as well? ---
**Author:** ![Serene\_Repose](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/serene_repose/32/384960_2.png) [@Serene\_Repose](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Serene_Repose)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2022, 1:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/157 "2022-12-31T01:12:48Z")
I can’t believe you explained … nevermind. You give new meaning to the word _supercillious._ ---
**Author:** ![cyraxthehated\_Metesur](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cyraxthehated_metesur/32/409997_2.png) [@cyraxthehated\_Metesur](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/cyraxthehated_Metesur)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2023, 2:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/158 "2023-01-01T14:41:23Z")
Oh no, Mommy and Daddy are still fighting… ---
**Author:** ![Ankaten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ankaten/32/347062_2.png) [@Ankaten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ankaten)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 5:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/159 "2023-01-02T05:38:28Z")
What you don’t get is that the endgame of Eve is not about ships nor about ISK but about people. It is for a reason called “psychopaths’ online” because everything you do leads you to the realization that Eve on its last layer is about power. Be it about managing a corporation or alliance, cornering markets or holdings space. Everything you “play” is a means to an end. Nothing is permanent or unique but what you make of it. And for that you need other people. ---
**Author:** ![Srima\_Darkstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/srima_darkstar/32/374461_2.png) [@Srima\_Darkstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Srima_Darkstar)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 7:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/160 "2023-01-02T19:50:59Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > I doubt that. Just another alt cycler who got caught out is all. When you doubt your power, you give power to your doubt. Personally I won’t be falling for your bait. Good luck. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Anyway, have a good Holiday… Thanks, I hope you had a good holiday as well. > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > Well damn, I must be a pilot in poor taste. It is just always been my methodology, don’t take it as disrespect or personal criticism. Long ago, back in 2007, I was playing PvP and also in a forum such as this (where character names from the game were forced). I ended up making some people very unhappy in PvP and one of them managed to gather enough personal information to hack my account through tech support. They called and spoke to them giving some minimal information, changed the password and email. I lost inventory before getting it fixed. The loss was temporary, but I am unaware what action was taken with the phisher, and I no longer care. I am older and wiser now and I won’t be goaded into revealing enough personal information to make it possible. > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > one of the more tepid pessimistic philosophers. I think most philosophers are very pessimistic, as are many dooms-day prophets. @Elizabet_Forgrave and @Altara_Zemara I want you to know, been following the side conversation of PvP verses PvE. My opinion is, when a game (such as Eve Online) starts with PvP being the core, it should remain as such. There is nothing wrong with PvE, but it normally messes up the PvP qualities of the PvP game. To illustrate what I mean here; William Shakespeare wrote the play Hamlet. In the scene where the Prince is asking the gravedigger about the skull. The gravedigger says but a few lines and exits the stage. We don’t have a name, the play only calls him gravedigger. A PvE person would walk over to William and ask, “What was the gravedigger’s name? Did he have a family? What happened to him after he left? Did he get killed or find a buried treasure?”. The author would most likely stare at them with a long hard blank look on their face. Character backgrounds, lore, and fighting off NPC’s mobs don’t matter to the players who come here to just PvP. Meanwhile it would seem very few game developers understand that putting PvP into a PvE based game doesn’t work either. They end up wrecking the PvE character builds with constant tweaks to force the PvP to even function. Most of the PvE based games end up with bad PvP. I only found one game that ever managed to balance both of them. > [@cyraxthehated\_Metesur](#): > > Oh no, > Mommy and Daddy are still fighting… Some people need to talk things out. @Ankaten an excellent point of view. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 8:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/161 "2023-01-02T20:06:03Z")
> [@Srima\_Darkstar](#): > > I think most philosophers are very pessimistic, as are many dooms-day prophets. …not the same as philosophical pessimism, of which you so value a prized quote from one of its adherents, that you lamented no one took you up on it, I accepted your challenge, explained why it’s not fun to do so, elaborated your misunderstanding of the quote in isolation, and you ignore all that and this is how you reply. Enjoy your further self-gratifying opining, alone. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 9:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/162 "2023-01-02T21:32:42Z")
> [@Srima\_Darkstar](#): > > I think most philosophers are very pessimistic, as are many dooms-day prophets. > > @Elizabet_Forgrave and @Altara_Zemara I want you to know, been following the side conversation of PvP verses PvE. My opinion is, when a game (such as Eve Online) starts with PvP being the core, it should remain as such. There is nothing wrong with PvE, but it normally messes up the PvP qualities of the PvP game. To illustrate what I mean here; William Shakespeare wrote the play Hamlet. In the scene where the Prince is asking the gravedigger about the skull. The gravedigger says but a few lines and exits the stage. We don’t have a name, the play only calls him gravedigger. A PvE person would walk over to William and ask, “What was the gravedigger’s name? Did he have a family? What happened to him after he left? Did he get killed or find a buried treasure?”. The author would most likely stare at them with a long hard blank look on their face. Character backgrounds, lore, and fighting off NPC’s mobs don’t matter to the players who come here to just PvP. I’m not sure most PvE players even care about the lore. Or maybe its just me. I’m the sort who does ‘skip’ on the dialogue lines in Fallout 4 or Skyrim. The only game where I ever felt truly ‘immersed’ in the atmosphere was Vampire : The Masquerade - Bloodlines…in my view one the best games ever. It’s extremely hard for developers to get players to ‘feel’ a player vs environment attachment. And that is why I am no great fan of PvE. On the other hand, with PvP there are corps where I can chat with real people. I can engage in banter in Local too. NPCs have no heart or soul, and don’t really ‘care’ for who you are or where you are in the game…but real people do and it is that interaction that I value. My view is that PvP is not merely incidental to Eve but is the _core_ of the game…the apex at the top of all mining, industry, and so on, and fundamentally the only reason those PvE aspects exist. > [@Srima\_Darkstar](#): > > Some people need to talk things out. Not really…I think me and Elizabet _aren’t_ really that far apart on most issues. I’ll tone down the forum PvP a little, which may help. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 10:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/163 "2023-01-02T22:02:38Z")
> [@Srima\_Darkstar](#): > > Character backgrounds, lore, and fighting off NPC’s mobs don’t matter to the players who come here to just PvP. But at the same time it does matter to those who pvp as well for rp reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 10:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864/164 "2023-01-02T22:42:33Z")
> [@Srima\_Darkstar](#): > > My opinion is, when a game (such as Eve Online) starts with PvP being the core, it should remain as such. There is nothing wrong with PvE, but it normally messes up the PvP qualities of the PvP game. It really depends on what you’re meaning when you say “PvP” here. If you just mean shooting other players then you’re wrong, EVE is not a PvP game in that sense. EVE is PvP in respect of everything in the game affecting the game because the economy is player-run. Shooting players is the primary way for generated resources to leave the game, but PvE is the primary method for creating them. Both need to exist and be a major part of the game for EVE to function. > [@Srima\_Darkstar](#): > > Character backgrounds, lore, and fighting off NPC’s mobs don’t matter to the players who come here to just PvP. EVE has a rich lore, and it’s supposed to. It’s not just a space-based combat game where nothing outside of the fighting matters. I don’t think it would have survived as long as it has if that’s all it was. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Not really…I think me and Elizabet _aren’t_ really that far apart on most issues. I’ll tone down the forum PvP a little, which may help. I’d agree with this. I think fundamentally we both agree that all of the parts of EVE we discuss are needed, we really just disagree on where we place importance and we’re both passionate about it. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-gentle-review-from-a-new-user/388864.md?page=9)