# A letter from me, to CCP **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 28, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-letter-from-me-to-ccp/123549 "2018-11-28T20:13:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 3:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-letter-from-me-to-ccp/123549/162 "2019-03-28T15:03:27Z")
You know, you only look at this from one side and decide that this isn’t a problem for the game. Which i actually agree. But it is a problem for certain players with addiction problems who spend thousands of dollars for what is basically space pixels and has no real value. CCP and other companies feed on this people. I can understand that this is somehow “excusable” if the game is free2play and needs the revenue from the cash shop. But EVE isn’t free2play, it is still a subscription game as everyone is always reminded if an alpha asks for something. ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-letter-from-me-to-ccp/123549/163 "2019-03-28T15:07:31Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > But it is a problem for certain players with addiction problems who spend thousands of dollars for what is basically space pixels and has no real value. CCP and other companies feed on this people. Honestly, that’s their problem. Addiction problems are not exclusive to Eve, gaming, or anything in general. If gambling is addictive, why do we not make it illegal? Because for the most part people are fine and know their limits. The same is true for alcohol and other drugs, ■■■■ even FOOD is addictive to some people - not just sugary foods, either. Good healthy food can be addictive. At the end of the day we don’t base our recreational aspects around the minority of people who can’t control themselves. Nobody actually says it this way, but the collective opinion is “meh that’s their problem”. And I’m okay with that. At the end of the day, Eve is designed for the broader playerbase. ---
**Author:** ![Galaxy\_Pig](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/galaxy_pig/32/374625_2.png) [@Galaxy\_Pig](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Galaxy_Pig)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 3:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-letter-from-me-to-ccp/123549/164 "2019-03-28T15:12:50Z")
It was always possible to buy a character with 100mil SP and a bunch of PLEX and have all the skillpoints and all the things. If anybody wants to try to use this method to win in EVE Online, I bid them good luck with all that. ---
**Author:** ![Azazel\_Drakonis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/azazel_drakonis/32/495743_2.png) [@Azazel\_Drakonis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Azazel_Drakonis)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-letter-from-me-to-ccp/123549/165 "2019-03-28T15:13:01Z")
He’s not wrong though. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 3:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-letter-from-me-to-ccp/123549/166 "2019-03-28T15:24:49Z")
I sometimes wonder if there is actually a limit to what CCP could monetize and still get full defense from their players. I honestly think they could add a T3 Titan for 1000$ to the shop and people would still be fine with it. ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-letter-from-me-to-ccp/123549/167 "2019-03-28T15:52:17Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > I honestly think they could add a T3 Titan for 1000$ to the shop and people would still be fine with it. But now see… that literally IS P2W, because now you’ve got a ship you can only get with cash. Playerbase wouldn’t stand for that for even a second. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 5:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-letter-from-me-to-ccp/123549/168 "2019-03-28T17:40:45Z")
> [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > But now see… that literally IS P2W, because now you’ve got a ship you can only get with cash. Playerbase wouldn’t stand for that for even a second. If you could sell it on the market everyone would use that as an excuse why that isn’t a problem. Also how does every other argument you used before not apply here as well? ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 6:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-letter-from-me-to-ccp/123549/169 "2019-03-28T18:43:01Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > If you could sell it on the market everyone would use that as an excuse why that isn’t a problem. > > Also how does every other argument you used before not apply here as well? Because currently there is nothing in the game that will affect the balance of power, obtainable only with cash. A hull that can only be obtained with cash would be a definite impact on the balance of power. An advantage that you can only get with cash. Just because it’s something you can put on the market doesn’t mean that everyone has access to it. Whereas in today’s Eve, everyone has access to everything (AT hulls being the only exception, but you don’t pay for those). ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Rolfski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_rolfski/32/196163_2.png) [@Lord\_Rolfski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Rolfski)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 10:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-letter-from-me-to-ccp/123549/170 "2019-03-28T22:18:40Z")
Skill extractors are not strictly P2W, bad players will still loose horribly, no matter their fancy unlocked skills. However, a way bigger problem for this game is newer players finding themselves unable to compete with 15 year old characters and quitting as a result. Player retention is absolutely atrocious and THE biggest threat for a healthy future of this game. Like it or not, skill injectors are if anything a necessity for the longevity of Eve Online. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 1:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-letter-from-me-to-ccp/123549/171 "2019-03-29T01:46:31Z")
> [@Lord\_Rolfski](#): > > However, a way bigger problem for this game is newer players finding themselves unable to compete with 15 year old characters and quitting as a result. Player retention is absolutely atrocious and THE biggest threat for a healthy future of this game. > Like it or not, skill injectors are if anything a necessity for the longevity of Eve Online. Mostly agree, with a couple caveats: - Player retention is atrocious, is a massive waste of potential assets… but there are far more things that need to be done to correct this than skill injectors. - Skill injectors are the current avenue for addressing the need for ‘catch-up’ in the game. However, those skill injectors offer far more accessibility (and benefit) to those who are already established in the game than to newcomers. Catch-up, and new player advancement, can be handled by other techniques than skill injectors - techniques which are more accessible/useful to newer players than to the ISK-farmer. Not saying skill extractor/injectors shouldn’t exist, btw… just that the mechanic should be altered. For instance, to provide a sizeable ISK **sink** rather than just a swap-SP-for-ISK service, and possibly to have limits on just how much SP can be injected over a time period/SP range. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 6:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-letter-from-me-to-ccp/123549/172 "2019-03-31T06:48:33Z")
> [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > A hull that can only be obtained with cash would be a definite impact on the balance of power. An advantage that you can only get with cash. If it can be sold on the market people will justify it the same way they justify skill injectors. And no, they don’t only offer what you can already buy, they let whole fleets respec into a new meta and it’s not like that has no impact on the balance of power. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 6:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-letter-from-me-to-ccp/123549/173 "2019-03-31T06:55:12Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Skill injectors are the current avenue for addressing the need for ‘catch-up’ in the game. However, those skill injectors offer far more accessibility (and benefit) to those who are already established in the game than to newcomers. This always happens with everything they do to “help” new players, it ends up benefiting older players even more. I think this was first brought up when they announced them and weren’t even in the game. And I seriously wonder how stupidly overpraised a skill injector must look for a new player. How expensive are they now? 1bil? What is that, 8$ for 500k SP? If this is a catch-up mechanic it is the worst I have ever seen ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 7:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-letter-from-me-to-ccp/123549/174 "2019-03-31T07:12:59Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > If it can be sold on the market people will justify it the same way they justify skill injectors. And no, they don’t only offer what you can already buy, they let whole fleets respec into a new meta and it’s not like that has no impact on the balance of power. No. Just, no. Players would not accept it, CCP would never try it because they know it would never be accepted. The difference here is that injectors aren’t needed. At all. Yea they’re definitely nice… but they aren’t needed. Golden ships, otoh, would be needed. It wouldn’t matter if they were on the market, in order to be competitive you’d need to buy the magic hull. You couldn’t build your own. You’d either buy it with isk or $, but either way, they are not a part of the economy and they are only ultimately sourced with $. That’s 100% counter to how Eve works. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 7:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-letter-from-me-to-ccp/123549/175 "2019-03-31T07:43:40Z")
> [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > Golden ships, otoh, would be needed. It wouldn’t matter if they were on the market, in order to be competitive you’d need to buy the magic hull. > > So would you describe this as pay2win then or not? So suddenly if the source is cash shop exclusive it becomes a problem? But only for ships and not other game affecting items? > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > You couldn’t build your own. You’d either buy it with isk or , but either way, they are not a part of the economy and they are only ultimately sourced with . That’s 100% counter to how Eve works. Are you talking about skill injectors now right? ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 3:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-letter-from-me-to-ccp/123549/176 "2019-03-31T15:17:44Z")
> [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](#): > > having 100m SP means nothing if you don’t have the actual skill to back up what you are using. People say that in other games, but in EVE it is so 100% true. All that SP does is allow new players to loose expensive ships. It is VASTLY better to learn to play in cheap ships that can be replaced easily rather than loose 10 pricey ships, and you will loose those ships. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 3:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-letter-from-me-to-ccp/123549/177 "2019-03-31T15:30:15Z")
> [@Lord\_Rolfski](#): > > However, a way bigger problem for this game is newer players finding themselves unable to compete with 15 year old characters and quitting as a result. The same could be said of any activity; those who have experience (in this case time spent playing) being, for the most part, better at the activity than those who don’t. This is as true in virtual worlds as it is in the real; experience almost always giving an advantage, whether it be in sport, employment or just life in general. ---
**Author:** ![Ember\_Fireheart](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ember_fireheart/32/278556_2.png) [@Ember\_Fireheart](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ember_Fireheart)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 4:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-letter-from-me-to-ccp/123549/178 "2019-03-31T16:08:16Z")
> [@Foggy\_Bernstein](#): > > He bought his way in. Saved years of training. And is at the same level as most “vets”. So please stop with the lame “time invested is more important than SP” argument. It isn’t now - and has never been - related to actual combat in this game. That’s not called vet’s thats called cash cows ready to be farmed, f1 push’s are not vet’s. People can inject them selves as much as they want, all they are doing is supplying CCP with more money to provide us with more content which is a good thing, If a 5 day old character wants to fight me with his golem then all the power to him it still wont end well thou ;]. ---
**Author:** ![Elena\_Laskova](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elena_laskova/32/11436_2.png) [@Elena\_Laskova](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elena_Laskova)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-letter-from-me-to-ccp/123549/179 "2019-03-31T16:17:33Z")
> [@Ember\_Fireheart](#): > > > [@Foggy\_Bernstein](#): > > > > He bought his way in. Saved years of training. And is at the same level as most “vets”. So please stop with the lame “time invested is more important than SP” argument. It isn’t now - and has never been - related to actual combat in this game. > > That’s not called vet’s thats called cash cows ready to be farmed. So the message is that it takes years to learn to play, regardless of SP. Which means EVE’s startup time is much too long for anyone, rich or not. EVE certainly has a ridiculously high start-up threshold. But hopefully it’s not as bad as the “bittervet narrative” suggests. It would be a pleasant change to see something here which is both constructive and accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-letter-from-me-to-ccp/123549/180 "2019-03-31T17:42:29Z")
> [@Kerono\_Thalmor](#): > > Please, write me back. They stand to gain $500 000 000. Just give CCP that amount and they will no longer do those microtransactions. But yes, maybe they will give up those 500 million dollars because you are sad. We will have to wait and see what they choose to do. Only the future can tell. ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 5:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-letter-from-me-to-ccp/123549/181 "2019-03-31T17:50:28Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > So suddenly if the source is cash shop exclusive it becomes a problem? But only for ships and not other game affecting items? Yes, if the source is cash exclusive. Show me one thing about SP injectors that is cash exclusive. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > Are you talking about skill injectors now right? Skill injectors aren’t purchased from the cash store. Extractors are. Extractors do not affect gameplay. I’m also not being pedantic here, the resultant injectors also do not affect gameplay because they only give you something you would regularly get without them anyways. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-letter-from-me-to-ccp/123549.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-letter-from-me-to-ccp/123549.md?page=10)