# A modest proposal - introduce economic PvP **URL:** \ **Category:** Mining & Extraction\ **Created:** [August 21, 2020, 4:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-modest-proposal-introduce-economic-pvp/261864 "2020-08-21T16:55:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mister\_Song](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mister_song/32/225224_2.png) [@Mister\_Song](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mister_Song)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 4:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-modest-proposal-introduce-economic-pvp/261864/1 "2020-08-21T16:55:37Z")
Been playing the game on and off for quite a few years. Also a student of history and of people. Also enjoy the genius and idiocies of the forums. EVE is enjoyable, frustrating and intriguing. The fact that real world mechanisms can be used in the game are part of what makes it so intriguing. I’ve been watching the interminable Yaarrrr versus Carebear goings on for a good while. A few days ago the thought struck me that while EVE does a wonderful job of implementing PvP via users of force it has almost completely ignored economic warfare. Looking outside of EVE at the real world I would challenge just about anyone to cite an example of a war that was fought between combatants using only force and nothing else. Economic warfare is a vital component of human warfare. Heck, the West won the Cold War mostly using economic warfare (force (or, rather, the threat of it) played only a part that was used to prevent us indulging in the well-anticipated World War Three.) It was inability to continue to compete economically with the West’s spending on armament that caused the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact and the USSR. They simply ran out of money and resources, this, in turn, sapped their will to continue and caused the reforms of the80’s. EVE contains almost nothing of true economic warfare. Everyone has access to the basic EVE NPC markets. Everyone has access to the player driven market/contracts for manufactured goods and services irrespective of their behavior. So, tell me, why can the force users attack the wealth and goods producers with impunity and the wealth and goods producers have no weapon to counter this other than becoming users of force themselves? Why should they have to continue to sell to the people who (from the Carebear viewpoint) are nothing but arrogant vandals? This gives force users a free pass to do as they please, gives EVE a ‘violence is King’ gloss and completely ignores true economic warfare as part of in-game warfare. There should be more than one way to skin this particular cat. My suggestion is simple to state (can’t speak for the coding to implement it) - Give all individuals and corporations the ability to respond to attacks or to implement attacks by preventing targets, systems and/or regions from purchasing goods from them or using any services they may offer. Example - Corporation Y has been attacking and damaging Corporation B for the last nine months. Corporation B also happens to be a major manufacturer of goods and services in the region. Corporation B then responds by blacklisting Corporation Y so that Y cannot purchase anything on the market produced by B. Crank it up further - B goes on to campaign with their allies and asks them to blacklist Y. Y all of a sudden finds it has to resort to all kinds of tricks to maintain the flow of services and materiel. Gasp! There’s actually a /price/ to pay for blowing peaceful people up that /doesn’t/ involve who has the strongest fleet? And, of course, think of the fun we’d all have with trying to figure whose alts are buyers for blacklisted entities and the potential for illegal materiel trading. All of a sudden Carebears have teeth. The force users may even have to enhance their own Carebear capabilities to survive. The force PvPer may even develop a little respect for the Carebear as a result. And it’d have the needed effect of making the Carebear community feel less like the third class citizen that the present implementation of EVE makes them. More importantly, it’d add a real world mechanism to EVE (where just about everything else already exists) that’ sorely lacking. Manufacturers and miners have a powerful weapon - if CCP chooses to let them have it. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 5:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-modest-proposal-introduce-economic-pvp/261864/2 "2020-08-21T17:25:23Z")
🔴 > [@Mister\_Song](#): > > EVE contains almost nothing of true economic warfare. Excuse me? - You can buy out all your opponents ships from contracts and relist them for higher prices or not at all to inhibit reshipping. - You can manipulate their markets to extort higher prices from line members. - You can gank supply shippings so that supplies in war zones dwindle… - You can wage a relentless war on their miners so that they cannot restock materials. - You can shut out unwanted people from your markets thanks to access lists. - You can buy out important building materials from major markets to drive up prices for ship and module building or make it impossible to build certain things. - You can monopolize the market on certain items that are or will be in high demand and dictate to a degree what prices the market offers. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 5:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-modest-proposal-introduce-economic-pvp/261864/3 "2020-08-21T17:30:43Z")
> [@Mister\_Song](#): > > All of a sudden Carebears have teeth. Where? Not a single line in your post suggests this. This is not “having teeth”. This is just an admittance that they’re power- and defenseless. They don’t _deserve_ anything more … … because they’re not willing to put in even a minimum. A carebear who believes he can deny me stuff … … is a dead ■■■■■■■ carebear. Not only will he not be able to prevent my alts from buying ■■■■ … … he will also not be able to prevent the coming slaughter from _inside his corporation_. He will not be able to deal with the psychological warfare … … and he will definitely not be able to deal with the “physical” warfare. Your perspective is rather narrow minded. You seem to lack the experience of having actual _teeth_ … … and using them to bite someone’s ~~balls~~ _(eww)_ ear off. > [@Mister\_Song](#): > > And it’d have the needed effect of making the Carebear community feel > less like the third class citizen that the present implementation of EVE > makes them. They _are_ third class citizens … … _from sheer ignorance_. If you want people to have teeth, teach them how to have teeth. Don’t enable them to stay the wimpy wet towels they are by giving them tools which fool them into believing they have any sort of power. That’s not going to lead anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Remillard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mark_remillard/32/299147_2.png) [@Mark\_Remillard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mark_Remillard)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 6:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-modest-proposal-introduce-economic-pvp/261864/4 "2020-08-21T18:59:48Z")
> [@Mister\_Song](#): > > Everyone has access to the basic EVE NPC markets. I stuggled to keep reading after this… NPC markets barely exist anymore. Or do you actually mean NPC stations? Most of the stuff you want to see already exists in regions that lack NPC stations. Hi security space, by design, places limitations on PVP (both combat and economics), if you want to experience economic PVP, move to a region without concord and indestrucble market hubs. ---
**Author:** ![Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mkikaden_tiragen/32/243913_2.png) [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mkikaden_Tiragen)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 7:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-modest-proposal-introduce-economic-pvp/261864/5 "2020-08-21T19:27:22Z")
… I can’t decide if this is a troll post or if the OP genuinely doesn’t understand that 99.9% of the market is player driven and thus entirely PvP. Arbitrage opportunities are minuscule - aside from maybe two dozen trade goods that can be moved between NPC sellers and NPC buyers, and most skill books available for direct purchase from NPCs, everything is player-to-player transactions with a definite PvP component in the marketplace when it comes to supply (every step from mineral acquisition/looting to market delivery of final goods is subject to attack) and pricing (cause it isn’t NPC sales I am competing with when I list products at Jita 4-4…). ---
**Author:** ![Brun\_Warbear](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brun_warbear/32/380353_2.png) [@Brun\_Warbear](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brun_Warbear)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 9:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-modest-proposal-introduce-economic-pvp/261864/6 "2020-08-21T21:19:59Z")
Wow OP how did you mess up the simple, ubiquitous discipline of typing in sentences and paragraphs so badly? Your wall of text is unreadable. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 9:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-modest-proposal-introduce-economic-pvp/261864/7 "2020-11-19T21:20:00Z")
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