# A plea to any who will listen - CCPls, don't let wormhole groups be "collateral damage" in the October patch **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** wormhole, patchnotes, csm\ **Created:** [September 17, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-plea-to-any-who-will-listen-ccpls-dont-let-wormhole-groups-be-collateral-damage-in-the-october-patch/106947 "2018-09-17T16:31:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wander\_Prian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wander_prian/32/394208_2.png) [@Wander\_Prian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wander_Prian)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 11:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-plea-to-any-who-will-listen-ccpls-dont-let-wormhole-groups-be-collateral-damage-in-the-october-patch/106947/23 "2018-09-17T23:24:42Z")
Wormholers use the mass-reduction from active warp disruption field generators to make the HIC smaller than a frigate in mass to safely jump through a mass-critical wormhole to make it almost impossible to get stuck on the other side. Using a AB/MWD to increase the mass of a HIC further on the way back is just an icing on the cake. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 12:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-plea-to-any-who-will-listen-ccpls-dont-let-wormhole-groups-be-collateral-damage-in-the-october-patch/106947/24 "2018-09-18T00:24:40Z")
We welcome our new Korean P2W overlords. ---
**Author:** ![Sethyrh\_Nakrar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sethyrh_nakrar/32/12695_2.png) [@Sethyrh\_Nakrar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sethyrh_Nakrar)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 4:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-plea-to-any-who-will-listen-ccpls-dont-let-wormhole-groups-be-collateral-damage-in-the-october-patch/106947/25 "2018-09-18T04:39:55Z")
So basicly you are whinging because you can´t seal yourselfes off from the rest of the cluster that easily. A space that wasn´t supposed to life there in the first place. Oh, well… Yeah. CCP don´t want to fix a critical exploit/bug that is there for years now. They just want to screw you over… (This post contains sarcasm.) ---
**Author:** ![Sethyrh\_Nakrar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sethyrh_nakrar/32/12695_2.png) [@Sethyrh\_Nakrar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sethyrh_Nakrar)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 4:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-plea-to-any-who-will-listen-ccpls-dont-let-wormhole-groups-be-collateral-damage-in-the-october-patch/106947/26 "2018-09-18T04:48:11Z")
> [@zander\_exvirus](#): > > Thats what a HIC is for. Actually its for catching stuff. Not for rolling WHs in easymode. ---
**Author:** ![Jitus\_Altern](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jitus_altern/32/132026_2.png) [@Jitus\_Altern](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jitus_Altern)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 5:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-plea-to-any-who-will-listen-ccpls-dont-let-wormhole-groups-be-collateral-damage-in-the-october-patch/106947/27 "2018-09-18T05:08:56Z")
Rather than “seal yourself off”, it is to reroll the connection 99% of the time. Your hole is crit for whatever reason and needs 24 hours before it disappears. You either roll it or twiddle your thumb for a day unable to do anything. Of course, if you want to make that stupid argument then we can always make it so null sites dont respawn in the same system, and have a 1 hour respawn delay. That way you need to move instead of “krab with local and perfect safety”. ---
**Author:** ![Sethyrh\_Nakrar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sethyrh_nakrar/32/12695_2.png) [@Sethyrh\_Nakrar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sethyrh_Nakrar)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 5:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-plea-to-any-who-will-listen-ccpls-dont-let-wormhole-groups-be-collateral-damage-in-the-october-patch/106947/28 "2018-09-18T05:11:40Z")
> [@Jitus\_Altern](#): > > Your hole is crit for whatever reason and needs 24 hours before it disappears. You either roll it or twiddle your thumb for a day unable to do anything. So basicly you just would hide somewhere just because of a WH… Your probably doing it wrong… And perfect safety…yeah. Maybe you should try a war… Oh. Right. In J-space its so easy to kill structures ore to evict somebody… ---
**Author:** ![Sugar\_Smacks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sugar_smacks/32/430124_2.png) [@Sugar\_Smacks](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sugar_Smacks)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 5:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-plea-to-any-who-will-listen-ccpls-dont-let-wormhole-groups-be-collateral-damage-in-the-october-patch/106947/29 "2018-09-18T05:11:40Z")
If you count all the tears here and all the ones you have successfully farmed on Reddit then you show a obvious problem with so many people defending a “known exploit”. ---
**Author:** ![Sethyrh\_Nakrar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sethyrh_nakrar/32/12695_2.png) [@Sethyrh\_Nakrar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sethyrh_Nakrar)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 5:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-plea-to-any-who-will-listen-ccpls-dont-let-wormhole-groups-be-collateral-damage-in-the-october-patch/106947/30 "2018-09-18T05:15:52Z")
Yeah. The salt of cloaky campers when we started to do that ourselfes in a military organized way was too delicious… ---
**Author:** ![Jitus\_Altern](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jitus_altern/32/132026_2.png) [@Jitus\_Altern](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jitus_Altern)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 5:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-plea-to-any-who-will-listen-ccpls-dont-let-wormhole-groups-be-collateral-damage-in-the-october-patch/106947/31 "2018-09-18T05:24:42Z")
“Basically you just would hide.” No, I think you missed the point completely. - You are not “hiding”, you are “stuck”. Imagine if your star gate will turn off permanently the second you jump it, while the pipe you are ratting in has no more sites because site respawning is disabled. While you are at it disable Local and jump drives in or out, and disable cloning back in. Never really been in a war in null where my day to day activity is totally crippled. That is WH without a Rolling HIC. We are whinging because it totally fucks our ability to generate any content whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 5:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-plea-to-any-who-will-listen-ccpls-dont-let-wormhole-groups-be-collateral-damage-in-the-october-patch/106947/32 "2018-09-18T05:29:57Z")
> [@Wander\_Prian](#): > > Wormholers use the mass-reduction from active warp disruption field generators to make the HIC smaller than a frigate in mass to safely jump through a mass-critical wormhole to make it almost impossible to get stuck on the other side. Using a AB/MWD to increase the mass of a HIC further on the way back is just an icing on the cake. Thanks for the further information on how this works. I admit I’m largely ignorant of wormholes and how they work. My question though is there another ship/fitting that would meet this need. I know the HIC is the current solution, but has anyone looked at other options? ---
**Author:** ![Jitus\_Altern](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jitus_altern/32/132026_2.png) [@Jitus\_Altern](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jitus_Altern)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 5:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-plea-to-any-who-will-listen-ccpls-dont-let-wormhole-groups-be-collateral-damage-in-the-october-patch/106947/33 "2018-09-18T05:33:32Z")
There really arent, because to close a crit hole you got to make your mass as low as possible, otherwise you are gonna get stuck. HICs currently fill this bill because the bubbles lower your mass, and the idea is to go in with bubbles on, prop mod off to make yourself the size of a marble, then come back through with a 500mn and no bubbles on to make yourself the size of a truck and close the hole. The only solution I can think of is a T3C with mobile depot so it can refit itself with a Higgs Anchor on the otherside, then jump through and close it. The problem with that is a T3C still weighs infinitely more than a rolling Hic with bubbles up, and your chance of getting rolled out goes up dramatically. * * * How this works in action: You get a wormhole that can be +9% of some weird number. You pass through the hole according to hole rolling math, and instead of collapsing the wormhole you crit it because it have “10” mass left. You send in a rolling Hic which reduces its mass to “1”, and pray to BOB that the hole is not 0.1 away from collapse. You send the HIcs back through with prop mod on with the mass of 20, and collapse said hole, while landing back at home. * * * Remove that and it becomes fun because said T3C might go through that “10 mass remaining hole” with “11” and ■■■■ you. ---
**Author:** ![Sugar\_Smacks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sugar_smacks/32/430124_2.png) [@Sugar\_Smacks](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sugar_Smacks)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 5:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-plea-to-any-who-will-listen-ccpls-dont-let-wormhole-groups-be-collateral-damage-in-the-october-patch/106947/34 "2018-09-18T05:36:11Z")
I just want to make it clear you have been using an exploit and the only defense for you using this exploit was CCP didn’t fix it fast enough. Now everyone is going to cry in its defense because you could get “stuck” rolling wormholes, which clearly was the intention when it was designed to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Jitus\_Altern](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jitus_altern/32/132026_2.png) [@Jitus\_Altern](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jitus_Altern)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 5:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-plea-to-any-who-will-listen-ccpls-dont-let-wormhole-groups-be-collateral-damage-in-the-october-patch/106947/35 "2018-09-18T05:36:55Z")
Exploit or not, it is now a critical part of how Wormholes work. Otherwise we should introduce gate malfunctions so you can get spat out somewhere too. Only a 0.001% chance to get teleported to the otherside of the galaxy )))))) ---
**Author:** ![Sugar\_Smacks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sugar_smacks/32/430124_2.png) [@Sugar\_Smacks](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sugar_Smacks)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 5:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-plea-to-any-who-will-listen-ccpls-dont-let-wormhole-groups-be-collateral-damage-in-the-october-patch/106947/36 "2018-09-18T05:37:09Z")
Not when I lived in one a few years back. It may have existed then but it wasn’t public knowledge, now you are acting like everyone has been using it forever which is total bs. ---
**Author:** ![Jitus\_Altern](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jitus_altern/32/132026_2.png) [@Jitus\_Altern](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jitus_Altern)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 5:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-plea-to-any-who-will-listen-ccpls-dont-let-wormhole-groups-be-collateral-damage-in-the-october-patch/106947/37 "2018-09-18T05:40:51Z")
As long as there is a replacement I am not concerned. Dabbling in history is irrelevant, the fact is HICs that can roll crit holes are a necessity to not be stuck in a hole and do nothing until it kills itself. ---
**Author:** ![Sugar\_Smacks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sugar_smacks/32/430124_2.png) [@Sugar\_Smacks](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sugar_Smacks)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 5:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-plea-to-any-who-will-listen-ccpls-dont-let-wormhole-groups-be-collateral-damage-in-the-october-patch/106947/38 "2018-09-18T05:41:31Z")
Welcome to reality. Wormhole life is hardcore. Maybe you should move to Null I hear they have local and asset safety. ---
**Author:** ![Jitus\_Altern](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jitus_altern/32/132026_2.png) [@Jitus\_Altern](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jitus_Altern)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 5:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-plea-to-any-who-will-listen-ccpls-dont-let-wormhole-groups-be-collateral-damage-in-the-october-patch/106947/39 "2018-09-18T05:42:53Z")
Welcome to game balance. Wormhole life is hardcore. No, I am staying in my hole )))) ---
**Author:** ![Sugar\_Smacks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sugar_smacks/32/430124_2.png) [@Sugar\_Smacks](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sugar_Smacks)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 5:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-plea-to-any-who-will-listen-ccpls-dont-let-wormhole-groups-be-collateral-damage-in-the-october-patch/106947/40 "2018-09-18T05:43:31Z")
You want a guaranteed way to collapse your hole so you can guarantee safety for your hole without consequence. Sounds pretty Null to me. ---
**Author:** ![Jitus\_Altern](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jitus_altern/32/132026_2.png) [@Jitus\_Altern](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jitus_Altern)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 5:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-plea-to-any-who-will-listen-ccpls-dont-let-wormhole-groups-be-collateral-damage-in-the-october-patch/106947/41 "2018-09-18T05:44:23Z")
I want a “guaranteed” way to collapse my hole so I am not stuck in a C4 staring into the abyss as our C5 and C3 static are crit. Because there is ever only so much ontent in one hole. Otherwise having sites instantly respawn removes all fun about having to roll around to look for content, because sure as ■■■■ content wont find you 90% of the time. Doesnt sound too null to me. ---
**Author:** ![Sugar\_Smacks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sugar_smacks/32/430124_2.png) [@Sugar\_Smacks](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sugar_Smacks)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 5:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-plea-to-any-who-will-listen-ccpls-dont-let-wormhole-groups-be-collateral-damage-in-the-october-patch/106947/42 "2018-09-18T05:44:53Z")
No this is not about collapsing holes, you can do that, its about having a way that always works without a negative, which is no where based in reality. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-plea-to-any-who-will-listen-ccpls-dont-let-wormhole-groups-be-collateral-damage-in-the-october-patch/106947.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-plea-to-any-who-will-listen-ccpls-dont-let-wormhole-groups-be-collateral-damage-in-the-october-patch/106947.md?page=3)